Does 2.0 address AI pathfinding and tank-spank strat?

[Archaven]

I watched the announcement on 2.0.. does it address the AI pathfinding? Typically your characters blocking each other on narrow paths? Are they fixing it?

 

Also, are there refinements to the AI? The game kind of bores me when 90% of it i just tank and spank.

[AndreaColombo]

Hi Archaven,

 

there will be minor improvements to enemy A.I. mostly coming from subtle bugs having been fixed while the devs worked on party A.I. (for example, enemy A.I. never made use of modal abilities, but it will with patch 2.0.) However, major improvements à la SCS are not part of this update, sadly.

 

But we can still hope in The White March pt. II

[Nobear]

They also said in the video that enemy AI will be more wise to players stealthing one ally, like a melee rogue who wants to backstab after combat starts. I don't know how this will play out in practice, though.

[Archaven]

hmm means party characters will still block each other on chokepoints? did they mentioned they are fixing this?

[Fardragon]

Why should party members not block each other at choke points? You never get jammed with someone walking through a doorway?!

[Luckmann]

Will it address AI Pathfinding? Well, that's.. we can hope. I certainly hope so. I also hope that pathfinding overall gets a pass, which is an issue in part due to world geometry, and not just an AI issue.

 

As for tank-and-spank.. unlikely, honestly. There's been no hint at them considering any of the many suggested changes to how the base combat system works (sensible immunities/thematic resistances, etc), and the armour and weapon systems doesn't seem to be getting any major overhaul. Which means that all in all, it's unlikely that tank-and-spank or doorway-tank/ranged DPS is going anywhere, or that tactical or strategic depth will suddenly materialize.

 

hmm means party characters will still block each other on chokepoints? did they mentioned they are fixing this?

 

No mention of it. I'm not sure what can be done about that, really. The best solution (or workaround) would probably be a hold position command/toggle to prevent the "Run in and get stuck in Engagement" situation at chokepoints, but nothing's been said.

 

Why should party members not block each other at choke points? You never get jammed with someone walking through a doorway?!

It's a well-known issue due to the Engagement system as implemented that upon enemy death, the tank will immediately leap forward and jam himself squarely in the doorway, and then be unable to move back (because of instant, horrific disengagement attacks), and block party members from helping.

 

I've seen tanks actually slowly leave the chokepoint due to this, and get swamped in enemies just past the chokepoint, unable to move, and the other melee party members spazzing out behind him over not being able to reach the enemies.

 

It's probably one of the reasons people were very quick to find the "1 Tank, 5 naked ranged DPS" I-WIN-button.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Luckmann

[Quillon]

Why should party members not block each other at choke points? You never get jammed with someone walking through a doorway?!

 

If there is a fight you're eager to fight past the doorway would you wait just cos there is space for one man in normal walking condition or would you squeeze through somehow anyway? : p

[Uni]

It's probably one of the reasons people were very quick to find the "1 Tank, 5 naked ranged DPS" I-WIN-button

Surprisingly many just seem to enjoy watching Eder oil wrestling with all manner of beastly creatures. And the rest of the party just throws in ice, acid and all kind of nasty things like the whole thing would be some kind of horrible dark age themed japanese game show. And while we dont have whips there is still the option to use long canes for the spanking portion(and tank monks even benefit from such action). Wizards can also conjure magic ones that steal opponents mojo...

 

But then, what did we expect from internet generations raised by animu.

 

 

 

At least they are potentially making perception give accuracy instead of deflection, which makes tanks slightly less stupid but id guess they can still be made practically invulnerable to most enemies.

[archangel979]

Why should party members not block each other at choke points? You never get jammed with someone walking through a doorway?!

Doorways are not a problem, the problem was that during combat even when your character model can pass between two allies he cannot and starts dancing around like a dancing queen. It is especially irritating when you are trying to cast a life saving buff with Durance or Aloth and they need to get in range but they cannot and just dance around.

 

This is standard 2-2-2 formation I am talking about, no custom formations. Combat starts, my two melee in front row move forward to engage enemy and Aloth is in 3rd row behind Durance and Kana. The other 4 characters have not moved since combat started. Aloth is given order to cast a spell outside current range, he tries to move through middle between Kana and Durance and you can see there is space to move through but he cannot so he starts dancing around while I pull my hair out. BG1EE has better pathfinding that this...

 

Another problem I want to see finally fixed in this patch/expansion is when you turn off party AI, really turn the damn thing OFF!!! My party does nothing until I tell them to do it. I click on enemy to attack, he should move to enemy, kill enemy and then just stand there and DO NOTHING!! Instead they decide to find another enemy and attack him, melee characters even decide to move towards that enemy and as result break formation I feel like I am commanding a party of barbarians

Only thing party AI OFF does currently, it will not attack enemy until you give first command but after that they continue choosing targets in range on their own and attacking them without being given an order :(

Edited July 1, 2015 by archangel979

[POLE7645]

I do hope, however, that something is done about party members being blocked by unconscious party members or corpses (shown here

at around 9:00).

[Nobear]

Another problem I want to see finally fixed in this patch/expansion is when you turn off party AI, really turn the damn thing OFF!!! My party does nothing until I tell them to do it. I click on enemy to attack, he should move to enemy, kill enemy and then just stand there and DO NOTHING!! Instead they decide to find another enemy and attack him, melee characters even decide to move towards that enemy and as result break formation I feel like I am commanding a party of barbarians

Only thing party AI OFF does currently, it will not attack enemy until you give first command but after that they continue choosing targets in range on their own and attacking them without being given an order :(

 

I actually had the opposite frustration: starting with version 1.0.6, auto attack stopped working (for me and at least some other players). I was used to auto attack before, and considered it a convenience, especially when fighting big hordes of easy enemies. Auto attack didn't work for me with summons either before or after 1.0.6. I considered reverting to 1.0.5, but I ultimately decided to adapt, and I have. The advantage is that I play more strategically now. The disadvantage of lack of convenience in fights with big hordes of easy enemies remains.

 

I don't know how your experience is the opposite of mine. What version are you playing, and do you have auto attack turned off in options?

[player1]

To me most annoying thing is that after I finish ability with caster that they do not auto-attack.

 

So much that it was mandatory for me to add autopause trigger for finishing abilities to make sure they attack something.

[Nobear]

To me most annoying thing is that after I finish ability with caster that they do not auto-attack.

 

So much that it was mandatory for me to add autopause trigger for finishing abilities to make sure they attack something.

 

Yes. I have it instead set to autopause every time an enemy dies (obviously tedious if you're fighting large, weak hordes), and I pause manually when spells finish. That way it doesn't pause when I do an ability like Knock Down where the character was auto attacking before and continues after.

[manageri]

To me most annoying thing is that after I finish ability with caster that they do not auto-attack.

 

So much that it was mandatory for me to add autopause trigger for finishing abilities to make sure they attack something.

 

You can queue the attack when casting to avoid having to pause just for that.

[archangel979]

 

Another problem I want to see finally fixed in this patch/expansion is when you turn off party AI, really turn the damn thing OFF!!! My party does nothing until I tell them to do it. I click on enemy to attack, he should move to enemy, kill enemy and then just stand there and DO NOTHING!! Instead they decide to find another enemy and attack him, melee characters even decide to move towards that enemy and as result break formation I feel like I am commanding a party of barbarians

Only thing party AI OFF does currently, it will not attack enemy until you give first command but after that they continue choosing targets in range on their own and attacking them without being given an order

 

I actually had the opposite frustration: starting with version 1.0.6, auto attack stopped working (for me and at least some other players). I was used to auto attack before, and considered it a convenience, especially when fighting big hordes of easy enemies. Auto attack didn't work for me with summons either before or after 1.0.6. I considered reverting to 1.0.5, but I ultimately decided to adapt, and I have. The advantage is that I play more strategically now. The disadvantage of lack of convenience in fights with big hordes of easy enemies remains.

 

I don't know how your experience is the opposite of mine. What version are you playing, and do you have auto attack turned off in options?

 

I have not tried to play the game with version 1.06 but I have been reading patch logs and I didn't see any changes mentioned about this. If this was really finally turned off when AI is set to OFF that is great news.

 

I just need that pathfinding fix during combat so I can go back to playing the game, these two problems got me really angry during my first play and I said I would not go back to playing it 2nd time until both are fixed.

A game with tactical combat should not have things that make problems with enforcing basic tactical decisions.

 

Another thing the game needs is not allowing players to manually pause 0.5-1 second after autopause activates. Currently it is too easy to unpause the autopause. That time should be enough time for players to notice autopause and not try to pause themselves.

Edited July 2, 2015 by archangel979

[manageri]

 

I have not tried to play the game with version 1.06 but I have been reading patch logs and I didn't see any changes mentioned about this. If this was really finally turned off when AI is set to OFF that is great news.

 

 

No such luck, your melee will still derp into that chill fog as retardedly as ever.

[Uni]

Edit: What i said was already mentioned. (Can i delete messages i made?) 

Edited July 2, 2015 by Uni

[archangel979]

 

I have not tried to play the game with version 1.06 but I have been reading patch logs and I didn't see any changes mentioned about this. If this was really finally turned off when AI is set to OFF that is great news.

 

No such luck, your melee will still derp into that chill fog as retardedly as ever.

 

Now I am confused as Nobear said they no longer auto attack for him.

[manageri]

Now I am confused as Nobear said they no longer auto attack for him.

 

 

Well I suppose it's possible they (intentionally or otherwise) changed SOMETHING about auto-attacking, like the range, so perhaps that's what he means, or whatever. To be precise though it is 100% absolutely still the case that after the old target dies, melee units will move to a new target on their own, often with disastrous results, like moving into an AoE spell you carefully positioned to be right next to your tank to maximize enemies affected. That pisses me off immensely when using a wizard. This is one the biggest enjoyment killers in the game for me so I really hope they fix it.

Edited July 2, 2015 by manageri

[archangel979]

 

Now I am confused as Nobear said they no longer auto attack for him.

 

Well I suppose it's possible they (intentionally or otherwise) changed SOMETHING about auto-attacking, like the range, so perhaps that's what he means, or whatever. To be precise though it is 100% absolutely still the case that after the old target dies, melee units will move to a new target on their own, often with disastrous results, like moving into an AoE spell you carefully positioned to be right next to your tank to maximize enemies affected. That pisses me off immensely when using a wizard. This is one the biggest enjoyment killers in the game for me so I really hope they fix it.

 

 

I guess I am back to wanting this fixed for v2.0

[Uni]

I play with the autoattack option on. In 1.05 my party members used to automatically attack a close enemy after their ordered action ended. Only exeption were people with long range weapons that sometimes didnt attack enemies inside their weapon range.

 

In 1.06 this changed and characters didnt aquire new targets after performing an ordered action. The exeption to this is that they will attack new enemies if they kill their current target with attacks, but wont attack even nearby enemies after casting a spell. 

[archangel979]

I play with the autoattack option on. In 1.05 my party members used to automatically attack a close enemy after their ordered action ended. Only exeption were people with long range weapons that sometimes didnt attack enemies inside their weapon range.

 

In 1.06 this changed and characters didnt aquire new targets after performing an ordered action. The exeption to this is that they will attack new enemies if they kill their current target with attacks, but wont attack even nearby enemies after casting a spell.

So now there are two problems, one with AI off and another with AI on :D

[Nobear]

Another thing the game needs is not allowing players to manually pause 0.5-1 second after autopause activates. Currently it is too easy to unpause the autopause. That time should be enough time for players to notice autopause and not try to pause themselves.

 

Yes, an option for that would be very welcome. Maybe they should even make it default without an option, as IDK who it would annoy, but being able to adjust the time would be cool too.

 

Now I am confused as Nobear said they no longer auto attack for him.

 

I should clarify that what I said applies mostly to my ranged (and summons, but they didn't auto attack for me before either). With melee, if they were attacking an enemy who dies and a nearby one starts hitting them, they will still typically start attacking back. I don't use those friendly-fire hazard spells. I know that spells like Chill Fog are powerful, but I prefer Slicken and other CC/debuff spells that my party can then walk through afterwards.

 

I do believe my tanks might still progress forward in certain cases. This could be bad if you're fighting near a chokepoint and your ranged don't have line of sight. I counter this by having my mechanic set a trap in the doorway and fall back, then unstealth to engage and wait for them to come out.

 

I know the current mechanics make certain tactical options hard or impossible, but I see those restrictions as part of the challenge in finding an effective workaround. I know that might not make you happy, it's just how I choose to see it so that I can enjoy the game. Cheers.

 

Edit: I hadn't read Uni's latest comment. My experience mirrors his.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Nobear