POLE7645

*sings* Where there's a whip, *crack* there's a way. Where there's a whip *crack* there's a way.

You can tell they wanted to do something else though - especially Chris Avellone I think; Durance is in essence a big middle finger to fantasy tropes, divine ones in particular. Why? Durance is a character that has kinda been done to death (as well as the "Rage Against the Heavens" trope). And I don't think they were really cautious with that game. They actually stated in interviews that they had a lot more freedom with that game than any of their previous ones. And I agree that Alpha Protocol is very underrated.

I'm kinda with Michael_Galt, but at the same time, I'm not sure I can't cast a vote. I feel the game is too dark for me to vote that it's just right, yet not dark enough for me to vote "too dark". When PoE was announced, I actually expected to be more of a throwback to Baldur's Gate, (where it's setting was atypical and cliché, it knew it has been done to death and had fun with it. Fortunately, Divinity: Original Sin granted my wish), mainly because I was kinda sick of this trend of everything being dark and gritty. And that's coming from a guy who loves Planescape Torment. As much as I love The Witcher series, there are time where I find it hard to play because sometimes, they overplay the grey and grey morality. In The Witcher 3, it seems every single "good" option is going to screw you over to the point where I don't care anymore. Planescape Torment succeeded because these "Cruel to be Kind" moments were properly spaced and there was moments where good actions had good consequences. That you could be a hero in spite of the grim world (another reason why I hated KOTOR2, but I won't say more about that game). I admit, I haven't got far in the game (mostly because of a lack of time and that I got so many games to play), but Gilded Vale and Raedric's Hold already left a sour taste in the mouth. My biggest problem is that EVERY SINGLE quest so far is ambiguous, meaning that none of them give any feeling of accomplishment and ends up feeling like chores. I don't know if it gets better later in the game, but I hope so. And I admit that I cheated and looked ahead a bit with the companion quests, but I was utterly dissapointed to find out that the companion quest were so, for a lack of a better word, pointless. There's no rewards, no change in character and in some case, no character developpement either. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't mind if some character quests turned out to be pointless, but not al of them. There's a fine line between being realistic and nihilistic. That said, the grim setting is balanced by a fair amount of black comedy and at least there are some likeable characters that don't simply exist to be screwed over. I still think that the grim-and-gritty style is overused (when was the last time we've seen an high fantasy played completely straight?), but this game is a step in the right direction in term of balance. It actually uses it's grim-and-gritty tone to tell a story as oposed to put copious amounts of gore, sex, nihilism and pretentiousness (not necessarely in that order). And I'll also add that I haven't seen thw White March expansion at all, so I have no idea what happens there.

Are you kidding me? The characters in KOTOR2 were some of the most bland and idiotic bunch I have ever seen. And Kreia is probably the worst character I've ever encountered in a video game. For your information, random cryptic ramblings doesn't equal good writing. But I don't want to turn this thread into a rant about KOTOR2, so I'll stop there.

Here's the thing about Durance. His situation is interesting. His character isn't. Durance was such an unlikable character that I ended up completely not caring about what happened to him. And he never develops during the game (he either dies in the end or he doesn't. That's pretty much all that changes). The only reason I kept him was because I needed a priest.

I disagree pretty strongly with this. The great thing about Kreia is that she's not right, but she does a great job of convincing you that she is. If there's any other character in fiction who Kreia reminds me of, it's the Witch from Into The Woods (yes, I just brought musical theatre into this). On the one hand, the people in her world are generally either corrupt, or naive and blind to the world's corruption. But on the other hand, she offers no real alternative besides perhaps giving up one's principles and humanity altogether. Cynicism has a real value in its ability to sweep away the barriers of "common sense," and see the world's ugliness for what it actually is. But that's worthless if you just stand around in the rubble when you're done, and that's exactly what Kreia (and the Witch) do, and what they encourage those around them to do. Being unable to escape life's imperfections, they advocate smashing everything to pieces. But while a person may be free in the void that remains, they're free to do ... what? If anyone is allowed to be right in KotOR2, I think it's the Exile, and I think that this is the Exile's principal narrative arc (at least if you take the light-side path). Kreia sees the Exile as a living emblem of freedom from an ugly universe due to their disconnection from the Force, but it's only when the Exile reaffirms their connection to others through the Force that they actually start to direct their own destiny. KotOR2 is, to me, the journey from a childishly simple worldview, through the adolescent disappointment masquerading as maturity that Kreia peddles, and into the pain (but joy and invigoration!) of adult independence. The game is really about the relationship between Kreia and the Exile, and about the Exile's growth into someone who surpasses her and throws her understanding of the universe into chaos. Maybe this isn't as clear without the restored content, or maybe it's just my biases being projected onto the game. I can't say. But that's my 2cp about KotOR2. I think, to be fair, that it's a middle finger to the EU in particular, rather than the six three movies. Legend has it that Avellone prepared to do KotOR2 by consuming all of the EU (including the Christmas Special). That honestly sounds pretty traumatic. One could understand how a person might be embittered as a result. First, the EU does have some good points with great stories (the X-Wing series (both games and books), the Shadow of the Empire game, the Jedi Knight series). I'd add the lastest Clone Wars series (even if it had some crap in it), but it was released after KOTOR2, so it can't count. If you want good EU (that Chris Avelonne supposedly read), got fetch the many novels made (just avoid anything written by Karen Taviss and you'll be safe). And honestly, the Holiday Special is just too stupid to be traumatic (except for one scene that I won't describe for your sanity. And yes, I watched it in it's entirety. I regret nothing). And, I'd like to ask you that question. If Kreia is supposed to be wrong, why does she succeed everything she does? Hell, even when you beat her, she still wins. She has the entire galaxy warped around her finger and even if you rebel, you end up accomplishing her goal. So, yeah. She's still a Villain Sue (since such a feat requires almost complete omniscience). Maybe it's stated that she fails with the restorated content, but with the vanilla game, they didn't made that clear (since she basically wins no matter your ending). You still haven't worked that out of your system? Go hit a punching bag or something, there's no need for these tantrums. There's a topic so there's need. Find an new hobby, trolling user about writing on topic is passe. You're tripping. Kreia is one of the best chars in games. So creative and out of the box. Again, I still don't understand what makes Kreia creative or interesting. She's basically Brian Griffin (a character I hate with a passion) in the Star Wars universe.

And that's exactly why I think Torment: Tines of Numenera will be great. Chris is working in tandem with the creator of the universe, making sure that his vision works with the established universe. And don't tell me I don't get it. I get it. A child would get it. KOTOR2 is a deconstruction, but it's a bitter, mean spirited and self-rightous deconstruction that screams "Look at how better I am!". Hell, even Avelonne himself admitted that the end product ended up more bitter than he intended (although I'm still not sure how sincere he was). I took the Neverwinter Nights 2 example because it gave both an example of a typical campaign and one that deconstruct the universe, showing it's flaws while still paying respect to the original. And I'll tell you this. Even in an universe with "simple" morality, good fresh stories can come out of it (the recent series Star Wars: Rebels is a good example. The whole thing is morally grey without actively insulting the Star Wars universe and shows flaws on both sides). Even if the premise of the story is simple (and honestly most stories have simple premises) you can still make it interesting. I don't know if Torment will be better than Planescape Torment (I liked how they played with the concept of alignments). The old one is still a masterpiece of storytelling with great characters (and best of all, you're allowed to play a good character without being treated like an idiot for it) and a fascinating universe. It's going to be hard to top, but the tides system is really interesting and I hope it'll be well implemented (kinda reminds me of an updated version of the virtue system from Ultima IV).

Have you played TSLRCM? Because if you've played TSLRCM and you still don't like Kreia, then we gonna fight. You really hurt me. I play KotoR2 at the moment and I believe that Kreia is the best char in gaming history. Chris is great in playing with expectations and turning everything upside down. SW is about the good jedi vs the bad sith and the good ones always win in the end. Thats what you expect. To hell with that. Both jedi and sith are mages who are drunk with power and both follow extreme ideals that will finally fail. The world is gray and the fight between different fanatics causes nothing but suffering. Best get rid of all of them. Thats why I love chris. And by the way, Chris will not be the only writer at Larian. They have 7 already (8 with him). First, I hate Kreia because she's pretty much the Brian Griffin of Star Wars: a character that has no characteristic except being proven right, and they're only right because the plot requires them to rather than an actual reason. She's the character that I hate the most in the entire Star Wars universe because unlike say Jar Jar Binks, I'm supposed to take what she says seriously (even after she's revealed as the lord of Betrayal, Avelonne still uses her as a mouth piece). She's basically a Villain Sue (and I know that Chris Avelonne can write better and more compelling villains). Hell, KOTOR1, despite featuring the same good vs. evil fight explored the flaws of the Jedi philosophy better without resorting to tearing the universe apart. KOTOR2 is simply a badly written, pretentious mess. You can deconstruct aspects of established universes while still respecting the original universe (Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer did this wonderfully, especially if you play them back-to-back) unlike KOTOR2 which is basically one big middle finger from Chris Avelonne to anyone who love Star Wars. I'll admit I haven't played with the recovered content. But unless there's an option to tell off Kreia (or at least tell her that she's full of ****), I'm not interested. Even Ulysses (which I found incredibly annoying for the same reasons) at least had that option. Edit: I'm actually interested in his origin story. In my opinion, lore and origin stories are what Avelonne does best.

I don't really get that. Character writing has always been what Avellone does best. Well, that and just generally tearing existing properties into little pieces. I'm probably in the minority here, but here's my opinion. When it comes to writing characters, Chris Avellone is one of those writers who works best when kept on a leash, or at least working in tandem with another writer (like Colin McComb in Planescape Torment or George Ziets in Neverwinter Nights 2). You take him off that leash and he'll start writing characters that are annoying, unsufferable and unbearable mouthpiece that exist only to be proven right (yeah, I'm still sore about Kreia (I consider KOTOR2 to be the worst game Obsidian ever made) and Ulysses (which hurt a lot since I love Fallout New Vegas)). In short, Chris Avellone can write great characters (Planescape Torment proved that), but he needs someone to rein him in.

I... I really don't know how to feel about it. If he works on the lore and writes way to integrate gameplay ideas into the story, it's awesome. But don't let him write characters (at least, not on his own).

Is this bug still being worked on? It's still present on version 2.01. And it's barely playable on my laptop (which could handle the game fine before).

I know I probably sound annoying asking this, but is the big drop in FPS caused by the AI being worked on? I saw it mentioned on a thread that it was, but it isn't listed nowhere on those patch notes.

I'm tempted to say that it's Elspeth Eastman (the Devil of Caroc sound VERY similar), but I have no confirmation (and apparently no way to find them).

OK. After all this time, I didn't get any info from Justin Bell. But with the release of the expansion, there are some new info that could be found. Check the original post for more. Edit: OK. For some reason, I can't edit my original post anymore. So I'll post it here. The cast list for the expansion is rather easy to list. Pillars of Eternity: The White March Part 1 Brandon Cole Elspeth Eastman Yep. Just these two. The voice actors for the original companions (whoever they are) went back to add more dialogue, but they're not credited. So I guess they count only for the new characters. So, we can already assume this: Brandon Cole: Zahua Elspeth Eastman: Devil of Caroc I'll have to go through the game to add the new characters, but I think it's safe to assume that Brandon Cole voices the male characters and Elspeth Eastman voices the female ones. That would be helpful since I couldn't find information on Brandon Cole, that could help identify who he voiced in the main game.

The strangest thing is that Avellone has proven that he can write "cryptic" right with Planescape Torment, which makes Ulysses' dialogue even more baffling.