Hurlshort Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Banning things will get the problem go away. Except they aren't banning it. They are currently mandated by law to fly it. They have no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Banning things will get the problem go away. Except they aren't banning it. They are currently mandated by law to fly it. They have no choice. Then the problem persists. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woldan Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Banning things will get the problem go away. I'll ask just to be sure: this is sarcasm, right? I gazed at the dead, and for one dark moment I saw a banquet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I assumed it was. But as I said, right now they are banned from removing the flag. There should not be a legal mandate saying they have to fly the flag above the state house. It should have been easy for the governor to say "You know what? This is not the best time to have this flag up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 No. The flag doesn't make one racist and hateful. To think that shows ignorance. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I assumed it was. But as I said, right now they are banned from removing the flag. There should not be a legal mandate saying they have to fly the flag above the state house. It should have been easy for the governor to say "You know what? This is not the best time to have this flag up." the problem ain't the governor or any kinda law. have a government official or small group o' such officials change policy unilateral is never gonna bring about the actual change hurl likely wants. the problem is the People. if you force people to give up something that most of 'em likely didn't care 'bout or think 'bout, then all you have done is to polarize those ignorant and indifferent moderates. am understanding why people, particular people not in south carolina, want change now, but immediate change is gonna hurt more than it helps. let the freaking legislative process work. is a slow and feeble beast that gets it wrong as often as it gets it right, but that is what we all sign up for with representative democracy, no? start a movement to get the People to demand change. have the legislative body demand change as a result o' pressures from constituency. have the People be invested in whatever change occurs, 'cause if you don't, you get polarization and radicalization and more o' the kinda nonsense hurl don't want rather than less. we loathe the south and its lingering racism. in the late 80s, when we were taking football recruiting trips, we made a number o' visits to southern schools. it were eye opening and disturbing to us just how open and notorious racism were in some parts o' the south. sure, as a native american kid in the dakotas we had seen and felt racism frequent enough, but the majority o' the yokels o' swedish and german descent we encountered were the polite kinda racists who would pretend you did not exist or maybe sneer at you when they thought you weren't looking their way. the racist comments o' the locals in south dakota were, for the most part, whispered. the south... well, we didn't like the south much. am not fond o' visiting the south even now. yeah, the media stokes the flames considerable, and am sure euros gotta extreme distorted pov, but the impact the south had on us were enduring in spite o' the fact that we ain't actual encountered any kinda overt racism on our most recent trips into kudzu country. we don't like the south. we don't like the confederate flag. worst o' all, we don't like the humidity. well, that last part ain't immediate relevant, but gosh darn it, we hate walking o' a hotel and instantly becoming drenched in our own sweat when the temps is only in the 80s. am suspecting all that humidity messes with people's brains. *shrug* don't force change on Americans. we don't like it. we don't respond well to it. if you do not rely on the legislative process to bring about change, you will only multiply the monsters you is seeking to destroy. 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 No. The flag doesn't make one racist and hateful. To think that shows ignorance. I agree the sentiment, although flag can be used to symbolize ideologies that can be argued to be racist and hateful or otherwise problematic. And because of that some symbols, like flags, maybe linked to those ideologies, which causes risk that those that wear such symbols because of other ideologies or reasons will be stigmatized to be supporters of said problematic ideologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManifestedISO Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I don't understand why a local school is debating changing the name of Robert E. Lee Elementary. Have I unwittingly aided and abetted racism by watching the Dukes of Hazzard every Saturday night in the early 80's ... Bo and Luke's General Lee has a confederate flag on the roof of the car. Am I evil and a bigot now. All Stop. On Screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm certainly not talking about banning the flag, or limiting the rights of rednecks to put their flag wherever they want. Having it fly above the state house is an entirely different thing. Will bringing it down solve racism in the south? Certainly not. But it will fix a stupid piece of legislature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why a local school is debating changing the name of Robert E. Lee Elementary. Have I unwittingly aided and abetted racism by watching the Dukes of Hazzard every Saturday night in the early 80's ... Bo and Luke's General Lee has a confederate flag on the roof of the car. Am I evil and a bigot now. Bo and Luke have already been shopping for a new car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Vngk047bQ Edited June 24, 2015 by Hurlshot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) as an aside, the racism we observed in europe were worse, and frequent more comical than what we endured in the south. were very few minorities in moscow in the late 80s and early nineties. am pretty sure we caused a car accident once... guy probably thought america were invading, or perhaps aliens. spain, england, poland and france all got prolonged Gromnir stays, and day-to-day racism were worse than the kinda stuff we had to deal with in the south. did not stay in germany long... were a startling abundance o' young nazis passing out leaflets. and asia? lordy. usa is diverse and bigger than euro nations, so our issues is more obvious... and we also got genuine free speech in the usa, so people actual speak out 'bout issues. the biggest problem we current see is economic. the recent economic downturn exacerbated a "problem" that had been growing for some time: economic disparity. usa has largely recovered from economic woes o' a few years ago, but not everybody has recovered equal. modern day robber barons, such as Gromnir, made the problems here in States worse, as when poor folks were losing what little they had, folks like Gromnir were buying on the cheap. we now got more than we ever had, but those folks who lost everything will never recover, and they are angry. is justifiable anger, but is often misdirected. flag? is not the problem. taking down a silly flag w/o People's consent will only polarize further. get people jobs and homes and a freaking future. fix the real problems. HA! Good Fun! Edited June 24, 2015 by Gromnir 3 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) The only people who consented to the flag being up at the South Carolina State House are a bunch of legislators from the 1960's. Other than that, of course I agree with you. Edited June 24, 2015 by Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/civil-rights-act legislators in the 1960s also gave us the civil rights acts. *shrug* HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 ps am thinking that the following clip contains an excellent summary o' the typical southerner's argument for continued veneration o' the confederate flag. oh heck, add the follow-up as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3eTSbC3neA HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Banning things will get the problem go away. I'll ask just to be sure: this is sarcasm, right? Sadly, sarcasm can never deliver a straight answer. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineth Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm certainly not talking about banning the flag, or limiting the rights of rednecks to put their flag wherever they want. Having it fly above the state house is an entirely different thing. Doesn't it technically fly over a Civil War memorial behind the state house? Or something like that. "Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barothmuk Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Bizarre that the media surrounding a literal terrorist attack is fixated on a flag. 'Murica I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Bizarre that the media surrounding a literal terrorist attack is fixated on a flag. 'Murica I guess. Why try to find a solution that actually works when you can create an imaginary one and pretend to fix it? 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrich Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Bizarre that the media surrounding a literal terrorist attack is fixated on a flag. 'Murica I guess. Why try to find a solution that actually works when you can create an imaginary one and pretend to fix it? Always looking for the easiest boogie man to point the masses at. Video games and music have failed too many times. God forbid we look at the mental health situation in South Carolina, or how someone with mental health issues had access to a gun, and I believe racism is systemic of poor education... I would be looking to investigate any of those things. Liberals have really low standards these days. Nine lives bought us the ability to tear down a flag. Not that I think anyone would ever win in this situation, but I hoped more good to come of this other than removing a flag. I guess I am saying is we lost human lives, and no one is trying to make them count in a meaningful way. Instead we attack the superficial. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Flags are pretty important symbols. This kid basically worshiped that flag, and the nation in large part is now turning its back on that symbol. We can't bring back the dead, but we can make it clear that the country is united against this type of terrorism. Because again, flags are important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 How many Americans are needed to screw in a lightbulb? The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Nine lives bought us the ability to tear down a flag. Not that I think anyone would ever win in this situation, but I hoped more good to come of this other than removing a flag. I guess I am saying is we lost human lives, and no one is trying to make them count in a meaningful way. Instead we attack the superficial. No tragedy goes to waste, I guess. We can't bring back the dead, but we can make it clear that the country is united against this type of terrorism. Hah, yeah right. Might not be much bad feeling if the people of SC do it and aren't feeling bullied by enlightened people north of them, but fat lot taking this flag down is going to do. I guess some people will pat themselves on the back from it. Edited June 24, 2015 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm not really getting the impression that there is a big group in SC fighting to keep the flag up. The governor has led the charge to remove it. Also, cynicism, yikes. Cultures change over time. Not having a symbol that has become analogous to the Civil War, slavery, and racism flying above the State building seems like a pretty simple place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Good. Now whites will stop shooting blacks. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 ^And vice versa! Thank goodness this tragedy has evolved into removing Confederate tchotchkes from existence. Whew, bullet dodged. Oddly, Black Panther memorabilia is still available so I guess we're not that ate up over the symbolism. 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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