Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Keyrock]

 

 

Is that the People's Front of Judea or the Judean People's Front?

[Blarghagh]

http://venturebeat.com/2015/06/19/swiss-reddit-clone-voat-has-its-servers-closed-by-hosting-provider-due-to-politically-incorrect-content/

 

Voat got shut down by the hosting providers that Atko was hosting the platform on for, I kid you not, having politically incorrect content as the reason given.

[Ineth]

http://venturebeat.com/2015/06/19/swiss-reddit-clone-voat-has-its-servers-closed-by-hosting-provider-due-to-politically-incorrect-content/

Huh. From the article:

 

“Our hosting provider, hosteurope.de, has terminated all our contracts and shut down all our servers without issuing a warning or trying to talk to us,” [...]

 

[...] the only reasons he was given by the host were: “We have received significant information that the content on your server includes political incorrect parts that are unacceptable for us” and “we cannot keep bond of trust to you as our customer.”

 

Can hosting providers legally do that?

 

I would have expected there to be procedures in place whereby the hosting provider would have to inform the customer which exact part of their content is violating which exact terms of the hosting agreement, give them an ultimatum for correcting things, etc.

 

Just flipping the off switch on a whim, could cause significant financial damage to the hosting client. Don't they have contractual or legal protections?

 

[Calax]

 

http://venturebeat.com/2015/06/19/swiss-reddit-clone-voat-has-its-servers-closed-by-hosting-provider-due-to-politically-incorrect-content/

Huh. From the article:

 

“Our hosting provider, hosteurope.de, has terminated all our contracts and shut down all our servers without issuing a warning or trying to talk to us,” [...]

 

[...] the only reasons he was given by the host were: “We have received significant information that the content on your server includes political incorrect parts that are unacceptable for us” and “we cannot keep bond of trust to you as our customer.”

 

Can hosting providers legally do that?

 

I would have expected there to be procedures in place whereby the hosting provider would have to inform the customer which exact part of their content is violating which exact terms of the hosting agreement, give them an ultimatum for correcting things, etc.

 

Just flipping the off switch on a whim, could cause significant financial damage to the hosting client. Don't they have contractual or legal protections?

 

Depends on the contracts that were signed. And even then the only thing they'd be doing wrong would be "breach of contract".

 

I think the absurdity of all of this is that, as the article about "Don't hate on trans people Fallout!" so neatly encaptures, is that if you find something absurd or silly because it's out of the societal norm, you're not allowed to have fun because there might be somebody who views that absurdity as their norm. It's like saying that you can't laugh at a guy running into a pole, because there are people who hit poles and got brain damage.

 

I realize my generation (the Mellenials) is becoming known for being entitled **** who were raised to believe that "you're all very special and should be coddled". But the thing is, ultimately, you're not. There may be one or two things in your life that the systems of the world haven't been confronted by before. People get raped, murdered, harassed about gender identity and made fun of every day of our lives.

 

 

The first 40 seconds of that are all that's relevant because of the stats. Even if they're exaggerated to suit Stallone's right wing narrative, still, that's a lot of people who go through the exact same bull**** that you do. And to go around declaring that everyone else should moderate themselves and treat each other like emotional and social babies means that it'll be harder for people to grow a thicker skin.

 

Look, Men, Women, trans, lesbian, bull****ters, and animals get made fun of. Not because we necessarily hate on that person for this identity or that one, but because we enjoy poking fun at each other.

[Blarghagh]

I realize my generation (the Mellenials) is becoming known for being entitled **** who were raised to believe that "you're all very special and should be coddled". But the thing is, ultimately, you're not.

So what you're saying here is, Fight Club needs to be required viewing.

[Nonek]

If i'm correct in gauging the "outrage" over Fallout 4, isn't the "problematic" content showing the male protagonist in a dress?

 

How exactly is this "problematic," previously womenswear would automatically morph into menswear in the Fallout 3d engine when worn by a man, and vice versa. Isn't the fact that now Bethesda has allowed men to dress as women and the other way around a blow for transvestites, cross dressers and such? Seems counter intuitive and frankly petty and not well thought out as a complaint.

 

Edit: Being pilloried for implementing greater representation, seems that developers can't win.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Nonek

[Azdeus]

If i'm correct in gauging the "outrage" over Fallout 4, isn't the "problematic" content showing the male protagonist in a dress?

 

How exactly is this "problematic," previously womenswear would automatically morph into menswear in the Fallout 3d engine when worn by a man, and vice versa. Isn't the fact that now Bethesda has allowed men to dress as women and the other way around a blow for transvestites, cross dressers and such? Seems counter intuitive and frankly petty and not well thought out as a complaint.

 

Edit: Being pilloried for implementing greater representation, seems that developers can't win.

 

Yeah.

Seems they think it was put in there to poke fun at transvestites, from what I read and understood they first require, a trigger warning, and following that an fullscreen announcement that Bethesda are for diversity and promote the ability to dress your character what way you wish.

Because unless you spell something out for them you're making fun of them.

 

I'm laughing at the whole situation in the same way that I laugh at rear view mirrors with stickers that says; "Warning, object in mirror appear behind you". Special snowflakes.

[Fighter]

So there has been a string of articles from nearly everywhere collectively titled "E3 2015 was the best year for female characters" (IGN) and a few media personalities celebrating some kind of "victory" for the cause or some such.

 

Adrian Chmielarz (The Vanishing of Ethan Carter writer) wrote an article which makes some comparisons: https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-truth-about-e3-2015-and-female-protagonists-b006094e44b1

 

 

Big productions with a female lead only

We’re talking games that could be qualified as AAA, with significant production values.

 

At E3 2015 we have seen Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Horizon.

 

At E3 2014 we have seen Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Alien: Isolation, and Bayonetta 2.

 

Smaller productions with a female lead only

 

We’re talking games that don’t really have the true AAA production values, some call them AA. We’re also talking better-known indie games.

 

At E3 2015 we got Michonne (we’ve seen nothing but I’ll count it), Recore, Nier, Beyond Eyes, Adr1ft, Tacoma, and possibly a few others.

 

At E3 2014 we got Infamous: First Light (it’s a short AAA standalone, that’s why I count it, I don’t count female-led non-standalones like Bioshock Infinite’s Burial at Sea), Life is Strange, Dreamfall Chapters, Murasaki Baby, Night in the Woods, Roundabout, Velocity 2X, A Hat in Time, and possibly a few others.

 

Games with selectable gender of the protagonist

 

At E3 2015 we had Fable Legends, Battlecry, The Division, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Dishonored 2, FIFA 16, Fallout 4, Halo 5: Guardians, Splatoon and I’m sure many others as this is the most popular solution to include both genders.

 

At E3 2014 we had Fable Legends, Battlecry, The Division, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Evolve, Bloodborne, Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare, Dead Island 2, Destiny, Splatoon, Sunset Overdrive, Project Spark, Hyrule Warriors, Fantasy Life, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and so, so many others.

 

 

So sure the industry was sexist just a year ago and today it's "E3 belongs to the ladies we are not giving it back" to quote one journo personality. Except the numbers don't really add up dear snowflakes.

 

/journalism

[Nonek]

"How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."

 

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

 

Listen and believe Gamers.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Nonek

[Meshugger]

Anyone wanna place a bet on what AMD is referring to here?

 

 

https://twitter.com/PI20XY/status/611956119070724097

[BruceVC]

So there has been a string of articles from nearly everywhere collectively titled "E3 2015 was the best year for female characters" (IGN) and a few media personalities celebrating some kind of "victory" for the cause or some such.

 

Adrian Chmielarz (The Vanishing of Ethan Carter writer) wrote an article which makes some comparisons: https://medium.com/@adrianchm/the-truth-about-e3-2015-and-female-protagonists-b006094e44b1

 

 

Big productions with a female lead only

We’re talking games that could be qualified as AAA, with significant production values.

 

At E3 2015 we have seen Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Horizon.

 

At E3 2014 we have seen Mirror’s Edge: Catalyst, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Alien: Isolation, and Bayonetta 2.

 

Smaller productions with a female lead only

 

We’re talking games that don’t really have the true AAA production values, some call them AA. We’re also talking better-known indie games.

 

At E3 2015 we got Michonne (we’ve seen nothing but I’ll count it), Recore, Nier, Beyond Eyes, Adr1ft, Tacoma, and possibly a few others.

 

At E3 2014 we got Infamous: First Light (it’s a short AAA standalone, that’s why I count it, I don’t count female-led non-standalones like Bioshock Infinite’s Burial at Sea), Life is Strange, Dreamfall Chapters, Murasaki Baby, Night in the Woods, Roundabout, Velocity 2X, A Hat in Time, and possibly a few others.

 

Games with selectable gender of the protagonist

 

At E3 2015 we had Fable Legends, Battlecry, The Division, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Dishonored 2, FIFA 16, Fallout 4, Halo 5: Guardians, Splatoon and I’m sure many others as this is the most popular solution to include both genders.

 

At E3 2014 we had Fable Legends, Battlecry, The Division, Mass Effect: Andromeda, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Evolve, Bloodborne, Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare, Dead Island 2, Destiny, Splatoon, Sunset Overdrive, Project Spark, Hyrule Warriors, Fantasy Life, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and so, so many others.

 

 

So sure the industry was sexist just a year ago and today it's "E3 belongs to the ladies we are not giving it back" to quote one journo personality. Except the numbers don't really add up dear snowflakes.

 

/journalism

 

 

"How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."

 

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

 

Listen and believe Gamers.

 

Guys this is where you view concerns me, you guys start to see things like gender equality in a negative light and exaggerate its influence 

 

So what if some gaming journalists are using a little hyperbole....they see it as a victory after years of battle around inclusivity in the industry. Let them have there moment in the sun...there is no reason to feel threatened or insecure

I

[Volourn]

"So what if some gaming journalists are using a little hyperbole....they see it as a victory after years of battle around inclusivity in the industry. Let them have there moment in the sun...there is no reason to feel threatened or insecure"

 

\The ones being insecure is them or else why would they feel the need to lie? People who lie tend to do so because of insecurity.

 

If I were to tell you I'm hot that be a lie and a sign of my insecurity. But, I'll tell you I'm ugly because it is true and I'm not insecure.

 

CAPICHE MR. HATEFUL SJW?

[BruceVC]

"So what if some gaming journalists are using a little hyperbole....they see it as a victory after years of battle around inclusivity in the industry. Let them have there moment in the sun...there is no reason to feel threatened or insecure"

 

\The ones being insecure is them or else why would they feel the need to lie? People who lie tend to do so because of insecurity.

 

If I were to tell you I'm hot that be a lie and a sign of my insecurity. But, I'll tell you I'm ugly because it is true and I'm not insecure.

 

CAPICHE MR. HATEFUL SJW?

No its not clear because you are ignoring context and the personal view, albeit wrong, of some gaming journalists 

 

 

They didn't lie if they felt this was the best year for female representation, you can say they are wrong like that link but you cannot say " they lied " 

 

It really shouldn't be such a contentious point..so what if this year was the year of the female character? What does that even translate to?

[Volourn]

They lied. Plain and simple. Their personal view is plain old fashion wrong. It was proven factually wrong (unless the eprson who proved it was wriong but if so you prove him wrong).

 

Going by feels is silly and ignorant. That is why racists and sexists exist 0 because they go by 'feels'.  Then again, SJWs are  racist and sexist and they prove that repeatedly with how little they respect women.

[BruceVC]

They lied. Plain and simple. Their personal view is plain old fashion wrong. It was proven factually wrong (unless the eprson who proved it was wriong but if so you prove him wrong).

 

Going by feels is silly and ignorant. That is why racists and sexists exist 0 because they go by 'feels'.  Then again, SJWs are  racist and sexist and they prove that repeatedly with how little they respect women.

I find it very difficult to have a reasonable conversation with you when you are so illogical 

Edited June 20, 2015 by BruceVC

[Zoraptor]

"How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."

 

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

 

Listen and believe Gamers.

 

The Star Trek version of that was rather good even if you knew it was derivative, always nice to see Patrick Stewart and David Warner working together. Though their best known video game efforts could scarcely be more disparate quality wise (Emperor from Oblivion vs Irenicus from BG2).

 

 

They lied. Plain and simple. Their personal view is plain old fashion wrong. It was proven factually wrong (unless the eprson who proved it was wriong but if so you prove him wrong).

 

Going by feels is silly and ignorant. That is why racists and sexists exist 0 because they go by 'feels'.  Then again, SJWs are  racist and sexist and they prove that repeatedly with how little they respect women.

I find it very difficult to have a reasonable conversation..

 

Well done Bruce, self realisation is the first step!

[Nonek]

Anyone wanna place a bet on what AMD is referring to here?

 

 

https://twitter.com/PI20XY/status/611956119070724097

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is just the first of many, the smart people know whom holds the purse strings and have seen the lies and vitriol that the dying old dinosaurs are peddling.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Well done Bruce, self realisation is the first step!

 

   funny

[Fighter]

Guys this is where you view concerns me, you guys start to see things like gender equality in a negative light and exaggerate its influence 

 

So what if some gaming journalists are using a little hyperbole....they see it as a victory after years of battle around inclusivity in the industry. Let them have there moment in the sun...there is no reason to feel threatened or insecure

I

 

Bruce did you read what the post said? The point is that the facts on the ground have demonstrably not changed. So all the words that have been coming out of their mouths then and now are evidently not based on facts but on whatever bs emotions swirling in their heads. Which just makes it about the quality of their reporting and what this says about the worth of their analysis and critiques.

 

Ethics in games' journalism. Like, yeah, for real.

 

 

 

How did you arrive from that to assuming anyone has issues with gender equality as a concept.

[BruceVC]

 

Guys this is where you view concerns me, you guys start to see things like gender equality in a negative light and exaggerate its influence 

 

So what if some gaming journalists are using a little hyperbole....they see it as a victory after years of battle around inclusivity in the industry. Let them have there moment in the sun...there is no reason to feel threatened or insecure

I

 

Bruce did you read what the post said? The point is that the facts on the ground have demonstrably not changed. So all the words that have been coming out of their mouths then and now are evidently not based on facts but on whatever bs emotions swirling in their heads. Which just makes it about the quality of their reporting and what this says about the worth of their analysis and critiques.

 

Ethics in games' journalism. Like, yeah, for real.

 

 

 

How did you arrive from that to assuming anyone has issues with gender equality as a concept.

 

Lets try to be honest...this is about gender equality. Your whole issue is with them exaggerating the "success " of female representation at E3 and that's an aspect of gender equality. And I'm not saying you are opposed to this 

 

And I can only explain this one more time, those journalists said " E3 2015 was the best year for female characters"  ,     in there minds this was accurate and they will report this on there website and people will agree. Just because that link disputed this doesn't mean everyone will agree with it 

[Fighter]

Lets try to be honest...this is about gender equality. Your whole issue is with them exaggerating the "success " of female representation at E3 and that's an aspect of gender equality. And I'm not saying you are opposed to this

 

No. My issue is what I said it is. Is that there is no less and no more success than there was before. Yet they kept maligning the industry.

 

 

And I can only explain this one more time, those journalists said " E3 2015 was the best year for female characters"  ,     in there minds this was accurate and they will report this on there website and people will agree. Just because that link disputed this doesn't mean everyone will agree with it 

 

Yeah they will disagree with facts. Which is exactly the problem.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Fighter

[Nonek]

 

"How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."

 

"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to become sane."

 

Listen and believe Gamers.

 

The Star Trek version of that was rather good even if you knew it was derivative, always nice to see Patrick Stewart and David Warner working together. Though their best known video game efforts could scarcely be more disparate quality wise (Emperor from Oblivion vs Irenicus from BG2).

 

 

I'd not seen that, i've just looked up the clip on Youtube and must say I might purchase the Blu-Rays and starting watching the Next generation if they're of the same quality as shown there. Thank you.

[BruceVC]

 

Lets try to be honest...this is about gender equality. Your whole issue is with them exaggerating the "success " of female representation at E3 and that's an aspect of gender equality. And I'm not saying you are opposed to this

 

No. My issue is what I said it is. Is that there is no less and no more success than there was before. Yet they kept maligning the industry.

 

 

And I can only explain this one more time, those journalists said " E3 2015 was the best year for female characters"  ,     in there minds this was accurate and they will report this on there website and people will agree. Just because that link disputed this doesn't mean everyone will agree with it 

 

Yeah they will disagree with facts. Which is exactly the problem.

 

Its not a disagreement with the facts...its there subjective view

 

Something else I find quite bizarre, there are at least 7 prominent gaming websites who have said similar things....yet you guys seem to think they are all going to just parrot the wrong information like they idiotic sheep. You need to give people more credit ...not everyone is as unethical and easily manipulated as you may think 

[Meshugger]

 

 

Lets try to be honest...this is about gender equality. Your whole issue is with them exaggerating the "success " of female representation at E3 and that's an aspect of gender equality. And I'm not saying you are opposed to this

 

No. My issue is what I said it is. Is that there is no less and no more success than there was before. Yet they kept maligning the industry.

 

 

And I can only explain this one more time, those journalists said " E3 2015 was the best year for female characters"  ,     in there minds this was accurate and they will report this on there website and people will agree. Just because that link disputed this doesn't mean everyone will agree with it 

 

Yeah they will disagree with facts. Which is exactly the problem.

 

Its not a disagreement with the facts...its there subjective view

 

Something else I find quite bizarre, there are at least 7 prominent gaming websites who have said similar things....yet you guys seem to think they are all going to just parrot the wrong information like they idiotic sheep. You need to give people more credit ...not everyone is as unethical and easily manipulated as you may think 

 

 

It's not just games journalism, look what the mainstream media is doing, courtesy of Conan O'Brien:

 

 

 

In before "but that is not relevant!"

Edited June 20, 2015 by Meshugger

[Nonek]

Lies are not lies when I believe them, ha classic.

 

Edit: I think this is part of the reason why our younger generations are becoming such poor debaters, too much emphasis placed on feels and not enough on the facts.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Nonek