Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Blarghagh]

 

What the holy ****, Bruce? This is the worst piece of hypocrisy I have ever seen. So this is kinda okay because Hogan was cheating? He gets to have his reputation ruined and all of his private videos and pics plastered all over the internet and harassed because of it? Then it becomes "sure they posted it just for clicks but he's got no morals anyway because I don't like cheaters?"

 

This is literally what happened with Zoe ****ing Quinn. Your double standards are showing in the worst possible way.

 

No need to use profanity to make a point TN, lets try to be civil ?

 

And its only hypocrisy if you seriously think the Zoe Quinn furor is the same as Hogan having sex with his friends wife..and clearly I don't think they are the same. In fact its disingenuous to compare the two incidents  

 

 

I didn't say that what happened was the same. I'm saying that what you are saying is the same that the people who harassed Zoe were saying. Down to the exact words, for ****'s sake. You are literally being the part of #GamerGate that even we can't stand.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

I never watched a single video about those celebrities leaks ( and I haven't watched the Hogan video for the record ), were those videos about people having affairs? My understanding is that  they were personal videos with the celebrities legitimate partners. 

 

 

 

On one hand, who gives a **** whether a private video about someone, made available to the public without their explicit consent, is depicting said someone having an affair or not? It was still published without their explicit consent, which is pretty ****ing despicable.

 

 

 

I'm simultaneously able to justify using prostitutes while going on about how hookers in fiction is harmful

 

 

On the other hand, what the hell, "using prostitutes" in itself is a rather distasteful view of the transaction that takes place, and I don't see how it's incongruent to employ the services of sex workers who choose to be in that industry with not wanting fiction to depict sex workers as non-people completely lacking any sort of agency.

 

 

On the mutant third hand, what does this whole discussion have to do with "journalism and bias in the gaming industry"?

[Ineth]

believing that airing private affairs is ok when it's a man but not when it's a woman

Usually, an affair involves one of each... 

 

(But your general point stands.)

[Amentep]

On the mutant third hand, what does this whole discussion have to do with "journalism and bias in the gaming industry"?

 

As I understand it the connection is that its Gawker Media (the owner of Kotaku and io9 amid others) that published the video (which was made in secret and published without Hogan's - or presumably his partner's - consent), so the question becomes if Kotaku is backed by a company that doesn't act ethically, how can we expect Kotaku to?

 

This could be a spurious connection depending on reporting structure and control/lack of control between parent and subsidiaries...

Edited June 24, 2015 by Amentep

[BruceVC]

 

 

What the holy ****, Bruce? This is the worst piece of hypocrisy I have ever seen. So this is kinda okay because Hogan was cheating? He gets to have his reputation ruined and all of his private videos and pics plastered all over the internet and harassed because of it? Then it becomes "sure they posted it just for clicks but he's got no morals anyway because I don't like cheaters?"

 

This is literally what happened with Zoe ****ing Quinn. Your double standards are showing in the worst possible way.

 

No need to use profanity to make a point TN, lets try to be civil ?

 

And its only hypocrisy if you seriously think the Zoe Quinn furor is the same as Hogan having sex with his friends wife..and clearly I don't think they are the same. In fact its disingenuous to compare the two incidents  

 

 

I didn't say that what happened was the same. I'm saying that what you are saying is the same that the people who harassed Zoe were saying. Down to the exact words, for ****'s sake. You are literally being the part of #GamerGate that even we can't stand.

 

 

Oh okay my bad, I wouldn't want to be associated with #GamerGate  in anyway so just ignore any parallels you may think I am making

 

I am much more concerned with Kotaku closing down if Gawker closes down

[BruceVC]

 

I never watched a single video about those celebrities leaks ( and I haven't watched the Hogan video for the record ), were those videos about people having affairs? My understanding is that  they were personal videos with the celebrities legitimate partners. I don't see the connection to the Hogan video? 

 

So in summary I have less understanding to Hogan being embarrassed because he was having sex with his friends wife, its not hard to understand

 

So you're okay with people videotaping in secret and without consent (like they did Hogan) and subsequently releasing it to the public as long as the person involved was doing something you declare immoral?

 

That's kind of a despicable position to take, I hope you realize. You're essentially saying that personal rights only matter for moral people and immoral people can have their rights violated because they are immoral.

 

 

Well fine then.,.,.,.when you say it like that I retract my previous point. Do you always have to be so ......analytical    

 

Let me rephrase what I said,  " I hope Gawker doesn't lose the court case ..because of the impact this will have on Kotaku. But they shouldn't have posted the video "...happy ?

Edited June 24, 2015 by BruceVC

[Nonek]

Lord knows why you are interacting with Bruce, it's pointless.

 

So what is known about the whole Arkham (i've forgotten the name of this latest one) scandal, i'd heard that a member of Warner Brothers PR had been masquerading on a message board to exercise damage control for the terrible state of the PC release of the game. Is this true, and have there been any statements released?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On the other hand, what the hell, "using prostitutes" in itself is a rather distasteful view of the transaction that takes place, and I don't see how it's incongruent to employ the services of sex workers who choose to be in that industry with not wanting fiction to depict sex workers as non-people completely lacking any sort of agency.

That assumes that the sex workers are in it by choice or that they aren't being exploited by a pimp. Which given the legal status of prostitution where Bruce resides, may not be the case.

 

As to the fictional depiction, there is a difference between wanting a different depiction and wanting outright removal. GTA is a pretty bland game to begin with, so I don't know why you would expect anything deep out of it or good writing in general.

 

On the mutant third hand, what does this whole discussion have to do with "journalism and bias in the gaming industry"?

Gawker is the parent company of Kotaku, which is a blog that most here dislike. Hulk Hogan winning the lawsuit could potentially sink Gawker and that would potentially sink Kotaku.

[Meshugger]

These last two pages, my sides.

[Meshugger]

So what is known about the whole Arkham (i've forgotten the name of this latest one) scandal, i'd heard that a member of Warner Brothers PR had been masquerading on a message board to exercise damage control for the terrible state of the PC release of the game. Is this true, and have there been any statements released?

 

I can't say i have heard anything but rumors so far.

[Barothmuk]

On the other hand, what the hell, "using prostitutes" in itself is a rather distasteful view of the transaction that takes place, and I don't see how it's incongruent to employ the services of sex workers who choose to be in that industry with not wanting fiction to depict sex workers as non-people completely lacking any sort of agency.

Agency is just a neoliberal buzzword to justify the buying and selling of women in economic destitution.

 

Game's Journalism!

[Namutree]

 

On the other hand, what the hell, "using prostitutes" in itself is a rather distasteful view of the transaction that takes place, and I don't see how it's incongruent to employ the services of sex workers who choose to be in that industry with not wanting fiction to depict sex workers as non-people completely lacking any sort of agency.

Agency is just a neoliberal buzzword to justify the buying and selling of women in economic destitution.

 

Game's Journalism!

 

Wait! You get to buy the women? Here I thought all you get is access to sexual services.

[Barothmuk]

Wait! You get to buy the women? Here I thought all you get is access to sexual services.

Booming trafficking industry that increases in decriminalized countries.

 

Admittedly though I was just continuing the thread's derailment.

[Meshugger]

 

 

On the other hand, what the hell, "using prostitutes" in itself is a rather distasteful view of the transaction that takes place, and I don't see how it's incongruent to employ the services of sex workers who choose to be in that industry with not wanting fiction to depict sex workers as non-people completely lacking any sort of agency.

Agency is just a neoliberal buzzword to justify the buying and selling of women in economic destitution.

 

Game's Journalism!

 

Wait! You get to buy the women? Here I thought all you get is access to sexual services.

 

 

Some people cannot tell the difference, but what do i know.

[Namutree]

 

Booming trafficking industry that increases in decriminalized countries.

 

 

Interesting read, but I was merely objecting to the notion that liberals were justifying the buy and selling of women as opposed to trying to justify paying for access to a service by consenting adults. Whether or not it's a good idea to actually legalize sex work is something I couldn't say with any confidence as I've never known a sex worker, hired one, seen one, or had even really discussed the issue at length with anyone who knows much about the issue. To me sex work is just a concept.

 

 

 

Now for something on topic: Gawker sux and I hope they lose.

 

GTA is a pretty bland game to begin with, so I don't know why you would expect anything deep out of it or good writing in general.

I've always hated GTA myself.

[Malcador]

Wait! You get to buy the women? Here I thought all you get is access to sexual services.

GTA V DLC.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Booming trafficking industry that increases in decriminalized countries.

 

 

But is that a problem inherent in decriminalization itself, or an emergent quality of the interplay between various thorny societal issues that could've been prevented with some foresight?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

As to the fictional depiction, there is a difference between wanting a different depiction and wanting outright removal. GTA is a pretty bland game to begin with, so I don't know why you would expect anything deep out of it or good writing in general.

 

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect good writing from video games in general.

 

Moreover, I'd venture, it's the consumers' responsibility to demand quality work for their bucks. If we pay for ****ty content, that's all we'll get, because ****ty content is always easier and cheaper to produce than quality work.

[Malcador]

Hm, can't really see a method to change the way hookers work in GTA, they're like the gun store or clothing store NPCs, they are there just there for a function like lots of the NPCs. I guess one could imagine a backstory for the nameless whore on the corner. They definitely could do it with the strippers that are the 'girlfriends' in 5, though.

 

So I guess removal is the only option to resolve this perceived problem.

 

As for good writing in games, depends on the game - and audience, sometimes they aren't too fussed about it. UT/CS/Quake are fun games and doesn't need writing as the aim is just on the skill contests, most RPGs not so much. Don't think I've met many people that play GTA mind the story much more than they would an action flick (there are some entertaining NPCs, though) and mainly focus on other things in the game on, free-roaming or shooting or stunts, etc.

[Meshugger]

Good news everyone!

 

 

Gender representation has been restored!

[BruceVC]

Hm, can't really see a method to change the way hookers work in GTA, they're like the gun store or clothing store NPCs, they are there just there for a function like lots of the NPCs. I guess one could imagine a backstory for the nameless whore on the corner. They definitely could do it with the strippers that are the 'girlfriends' in 5, though.

 

So I guess removal is the only option to resolve this perceived problem.

 

As for good writing in games, depends on the game - and audience, sometimes they aren't too fussed about it. UT/CS/Quake are fun games and doesn't need writing as the aim is just on the skill contests, most RPGs not so much. Don't think I've met many people that play GTA mind the story much more than they would an action flick (there are some entertaining NPCs, though) and mainly focus on other things in the game on, free-roaming or shooting or stunts, etc.

Just to be clear what exactly is the issue with hookers in GTAV?

 

The original issue that was raised by Polygon, which I initially agreed with and now don't, was that many hookers are victims of abuse in RL so why include them in game where they get abused/killed by the player

 

What issue with hookers in GTAV are you debating?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

As to the fictional depiction, there is a difference between wanting a different depiction and wanting outright removal. GTA is a pretty bland game to begin with, so I don't know why you would expect anything deep out of it or good writing in general.

 

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect good writing from video games in general.

 

Moreover, I'd venture, it's the consumers' responsibility to demand quality work for their bucks. If we pay for ****ty content, that's all we'll get, because ****ty content is always easier and cheaper to produce than quality work.

Seeing as the best selling games are the likes of Call of Duty X, Sports, and Bethesda looking for good writing from AAA games is like looking for good writing in a Michael Bay or Zack Snyder film. Smaller games haven't got much better IMO, with Divinity OS and Wasteland 2 having pretty mediocre writing despite being fun.

 

And yes, it a your responsibility to make sure that what you buy isn't a complete piece of ****. Which is why having a variety of tools, such as YouTube videos showing how the game plays, that help one get a feel for the game is a good thing.

[Hurlshort]

I'd say a large part of the gaming demographic cares very little about the writing.  Hence the games at the top of the charts.  

 

That's why it is actually important to both expand the demographic reach of video games and support more niche products that appeal to you individually.  

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect good writing from video games in general.

 

Moreover, I'd venture, it's the consumers' responsibility to demand quality work for their bucks. If we pay for ****ty content, that's all we'll get, because ****ty content is always easier and cheaper to produce than quality work.

Seeing as the best selling games are the likes of Call of Duty X, Sports, and Bethesda looking for good writing from AAA games is like looking for good writing in a Michael Bay or Zack Snyder film. Smaller games haven't got much better IMO, with Divinity OS and Wasteland 2 having pretty mediocre writing despite being fun.

 

And yes, it a your responsibility to make sure that what you buy isn't a complete piece of ****. Which is why having a variety of tools, such as YouTube videos showing how the game plays, that help one get a feel for the game is a good thing.

 

 

...So?

[Orogun01]

I'd say a large part of the gaming demographic cares very little about the writing.  Hence the games at the top of the charts.  

 

That's why it is actually important to both expand the demographic reach of video games and support more niche products that appeal to you individually.  

I think that a great misconception about video game writing is that its about words, which is why it goes unappreciated a lot of times.