Everything's Great - An anti-whinge Part 1

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Barti my darling, don't be cynical

 

Remember what the great WW1 poet Wilfred Owen  said "  Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" (it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country)

 

He was right, poets are normally right   

 

 

 

What a cheery thought.

 

 

Yeah, I thought a bit of context and levity is in order...this thread was depressing me 

 

I prefer a quote by that great American General George Patton: "You're not here to die for your country. You're here to make that other SOB die for HIS country!"

[Amentep]

I thought Up was decent, but the best part of the movie was probably the first five minutes, and it kinda felt disappointing by comparison from thereon. Don't start the movie with the best part. ...Although, in my opinion, Frozen suffers a little from this, too: from "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" to "Let It Go" is the best stretch of the movie, IMO. ...But the rest of the movie still holds up at least pretty well, so I guess it's not as bad.

 

What didn't you like about WALL-E, out of curiosity?

Well okay. So I liked the first half of Wall-E. But then they get to the space ship. And for me the story broke down in illogic.

 

So they've been on the ship long enough that the Captain doesn't really remember what the previous generations of Captains were originally looking for.

 

We also see where they are dumping their trash out (since the end of the movie is an anti-consumerist, pro-environmental plea, more or less). But in doing so they break down the logic of the stories - where are they getting the materials for food and for supplies (cups, plates, etc) that they're dumping out and have been for more generations than they remember if they've never found another planet to live in? Remember that they left the earth because they'd used all of earth's resources, so there should be limited resources on the ship, but it is presented as if its an all-you-can-eat buffet. Sure you could imply cannibalism, but even that would be a dwindling resource as they couldn't up the population without decreasing available food. In essence to make their real world point, they broke the fictional world they'd created.

 

And that kicked me out of the movie super-fast.

 

 

 

 

I can't watch that and not be immediately reminded that the corporation that built some of my fondest childhood memories has become a soulless capitalist leviathan that will stop at nothing to make a buck. Thanks pal.

 

Those similarities are so broad and vague and with its connection to the H.C. Anderson story being what it is, that one is getting laughed out of court. If anything, Disney used to be a lot worse.

 

Yeah, without seeing the full suit and based solely on what was presented there, there's much less evidence of Disney ripping off something for Frozen than there are Kimba.

 

Or even the Atlantis: The Lost Empire / Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water similarities.

 

I think so! I tried watching Fox and the Hound for the first time recently, and BOY, is it a slow-paced movie. I actually couldn't get through it it was so slow. Give me Robin Hood, give me Watership Down, give me Sleeping Beauty, give me the Sword in the Stone...but apparently I couldn't handle Fox and the Hound.

Oh gah, Fox and the Hound. It may be the BEST. MOVIE! EVAR!!!!! and I won't watch it.

 

Had the displeasure of reading the Fox and the Hound novel it was based on. Ruined my childhood.

 

 

At the end of the BOOK, the elderly Hound chases the elderly Fox one last time until the Fox dies of exhaustion. The Master of the Hound then mopes around progress having left him nothing else to do now that the Fox is finally gone. So he agrees to move away, and in the end he goes outside with his hound and his shotgun and orders hound to lay down, with the intention of shooting him. End of story.

 

It's like Old Yeller, except after the boy shoots and kills Old Yeller, his dad shoots and kills the boy.

 

 

Edit; Meant Book not Film in spoilers

Edited May 28, 2015 by Amentep

[JadedWolf]

 

At the end of the film, the elderly Hound chases the elderly Fox one last time until the Fox dies of exhaustion. The Master of the Hound then mopes around progress having left him nothing else to do now that the Fox is finally gone. So he agrees to move away, and in the end he goes outside with his hound and his shotgun and orders hound to lay down, with the intention of shooting him. End of story.

 

It's like Old Yeller, except after the boy shoots and kills Old Yeller, his dad shoots and kills the boy.

 

 

 

 

My recollection of the movie may be a bit hazy, since I last saw it as a child, but I am pretty sure the movie doesn't end that way.

 

I am reasonably sure I would have remembered.

[Amentep]

 

 

At the end of the film, the elderly Hound chases the elderly Fox one last time until the Fox dies of exhaustion. The Master of the Hound then mopes around progress having left him nothing else to do now that the Fox is finally gone. So he agrees to move away, and in the end he goes outside with his hound and his shotgun and orders hound to lay down, with the intention of shooting him. End of story.

 

It's like Old Yeller, except after the boy shoots and kills Old Yeller, his dad shoots and kills the boy.

 

 

 

My recollection of the movie may be a bit hazy, since I last saw it as a child, but I am pretty sure the movie doesn't end that way.

 

I am reasonably sure I would have remembered.

 

Yeah I meant end of the book, not end of the film. Its why I've never seen the film, the end of the book traumatized me so.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Amentep

[Bartimaeus]

Well okay. So I liked the first half of Wall-E. But then they get to the space ship. And for me the story broke down in illogic.

 

So they've been on the ship long enough that the Captain doesn't really remember what the previous generations of Captains were originally looking for.

 

We also see where they are dumping their trash out (since the end of the movie is an anti-consumerist, pro-environmental plea, more or less). But in doing so they break down the logic of the stories - where are they getting the materials for food and for supplies (cups, plates, etc) that they're dumping out and have been for more generations than they remember if they've never found another planet to live in? Remember that they left the earth because they'd used all of earth's resources, so there should be limited resources on the ship, but it is presented as if its an all-you-can-eat buffet. Sure you could imply cannibalism, but even that would be a dwindling resource as they couldn't up the population without decreasing available food. In essence to make their real world point, they broke the fictional world they'd created.

 

And that kicked me out of the movie super-fast.

 

 

Disney/Pixar movies tend to be full of plot holes like that - they tend to be more about...emotional impact and appeal than any sort of logic. I mean, c'mon, Frozen opens up with the King and Queen being completely stupid by deciding that the TROLL's advice in segregating and isolating Elsa and Anna was good and then actually fully implementing it even though all signs pointed towards it failing even while they were still alive. It sucks when their lack of attention to/care for detail takes you out of the movie.

 

 

Oh gah, Fox and the Hound. It may be the BEST. MOVIE! EVAR!!!!! and I won't watch it.

 

Had the displeasure of reading the Fox and the Hound novel it was based on. Ruined my childhood.

 

 

At the end of the BOOK, the elderly Hound chases the elderly Fox one last time until the Fox dies of exhaustion. The Master of the Hound then mopes around progress having left him nothing else to do now that the Fox is finally gone. So he agrees to move away, and in the end he goes outside with his hound and his shotgun and orders hound to lay down, with the intention of shooting him. End of story.

 

It's like Old Yeller, except after the boy shoots and kills Old Yeller, his dad shoots and kills the boy.

 

 

Edit; Meant Book not Film in spoilers

 

 

That hardly surprises me. Almost all of the source material where Disney gets their inspiration from always ends horribly - in fact, though I'm sure there must be a few, I don't know of any that don't.

 

 

I just watched that "Frozen" youtube clip. The technology makes it look like a Pixar movie, but something is missing. I swear, it feels like Luxo Jr. has more soul and personality than that blonde girl.

 

Whereas I have the opposite reaction: I don't generally like Pixar's style of animation, and I tend to much prefer Disney's. Give me Frozen or Tangled over Toy Story or Monsters Inc. or the Incredibles, etc., any day. Although I am willing to admit that characters do sometimes look odd in Frozen: I think Elsa looks really weird at the end of that YouTube clip, for example. Still, I prefer it over Pixar's animation.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[JadedWolf]

 

 

 

At the end of the film, the elderly Hound chases the elderly Fox one last time until the Fox dies of exhaustion. The Master of the Hound then mopes around progress having left him nothing else to do now that the Fox is finally gone. So he agrees to move away, and in the end he goes outside with his hound and his shotgun and orders hound to lay down, with the intention of shooting him. End of story.

 

It's like Old Yeller, except after the boy shoots and kills Old Yeller, his dad shoots and kills the boy.

 

 

 

My recollection of the movie may be a bit hazy, since I last saw it as a child, but I am pretty sure the movie doesn't end that way.

 

I am reasonably sure I would have remembered.

 

Yeah I meant end of the book, not end of the film. Its why I've never seen the film, the end of the book traumatized me so.

 

 

Oh, I know you meant the book, I was just saying the movie didn't end that way.

[Bartimaeus]

 

Barti my darling, don't be cynical

 

Remember what the great WW1 poet Wilfred Owen  said "  Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" (it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country)

 

He was right, poets are normally right 

 

 

That quote is terrible...AND depressing. I have no wish for myself or anyone else to die for some imaginary entity that's supposed to represent a collection of people with supposedly shared values when we could just as well not...especially when, as history has shown time and time again, the vast, vast majority of war is never altruistic or serving much decent purpose at all. And...it's depressing that that idea is somehow still seen as a good value to have even as more relatively pointless and/or fruitless conflicts are still being fought today.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Gorth]

 

I just watched that "Frozen" youtube clip. The technology makes it look like a Pixar movie, but something is missing. I swear, it feels like Luxo Jr. has more soul and personality than that blonde girl.

 

Whereas I have the opposite reaction: I don't generally like Pixar's style of animation, and I tend to much prefer Disney's. Give me Frozen or Tangled over Toy Story or Monsters Inc. or the Incredibles, etc., any day. Although I am willing to admit that characters do sometimes look odd in Frozen: I think Elsa looks really weird at the end of that YouTube clip, for example. Still, I prefer it over Pixar's animation.

 

I stand corrected, I had for some reason mentally attributed a handful Dreamworks animations (Shrek, Madagascar etc.) to Pixar. Finding Nemo is one of my all time favourite stories though

[Amentep]

Disney/Pixar movies tend to be full of plot holes like that - they tend to be more about...emotional impact and appeal than any sort of logic. I mean, c'mon, Frozen opens up with the King and Queen being completely stupid by deciding that the TROLL's advice in segregating and isolating Elsa and Anna was good and then actually fully implementing it even though all signs pointed towards it failing even while they were still alive. It sucks when their lack of attention to/care for detail takes you out of the movie.

Most of the time, I can roll with it. This time I just couldn't. 

 

 

I just watched that "Frozen" youtube clip. The technology makes it look like a Pixar movie, but something is missing. I swear, it feels like Luxo Jr. has more soul and personality than that blonde girl.

 

Whereas I have the opposite reaction: I don't generally like Pixar's style of animation, and I tend to much prefer Disney's. Give me Frozen or Tangled over Toy Story or Monsters Inc. or the Incredibles, etc., any day. Although I am willing to admit that characters do sometimes look odd in Frozen: I think Elsa looks really weird at the end of that YouTube clip, for example. Still, I prefer it over Pixar's animation.

 

Yeah, I'll be honest I think the last few Disney movies (Tangled, Frozen, Big Hero 6) have been better than the last few Pixar films.

 

But animation-wise I've liked both.

 

[Bartimaeus]

 

I stand corrected, I had for some reason mentally attributed a handful Dreamworks animations (Shrek, Madagascar etc.) to Pixar. Finding Nemo is one of my all time favourite stories though

 

Well...I like Dreamworks' animation style even less than Pixar's. The only Dreamworks movie I've seen where I really like the animation style is Prince of Egypt...but that's (mostly) 2D, which is kind of cheating for this discussion, so...haha.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

Dreamworks has a bad habit of repeating certain animations over and over.

 

That said, I loved MONSTERS VS ALIENS, HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON, CHICKEN RUN and THE CROODS.

 

MEGAMIND was okay. And the pair they did in conjunction with Aardman Animation - Walace and Grommit: Curse of the Were Rabbit and Flushed Away - were good.

 

And while I thought the first SHREK was amusing in its way, I disliked the direction of the series as a whole.

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, my comment was purely on the style of animation: I think they have a few good movies. The first Shrek is a classic, even if it isn't perfect, and I liked Curse of the Were-Rabbit and Megamind decently enough. I have never liked How to Train Your Dragon, though, and I didn't much care for Chicken Run and I haven't seen the others you listed. I've also've never liked Madagascar or Kung Fu Panda, either. Dreamworks is very hit and miss with me.

 

(e): What do people love about How to Train Your Dragon? For some reason, I've just never been able to like it - not sure why. All the characters annoy me like crazy throughout the entire movie - the chieftain, the son, the girl - the plot and action is a little too over the top and showy for my tastes, and I don't like the animation. I just can't hack it.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

I understand where you're coming from - HTTYD frustrates my brother because much of the problems exist simply because the characters create them themselves.

 

I mostly like the adventure of it all. Sure (much like the TV show LOST) many problems could have been solved if someone hadn't kept an important piece of information to themselves, but its a fun adventure. Really wish I'd seen the original film in 3D just for the final dragon fight.

 

I've never watched Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar was just...okay. Didn't like enough to watch any sequels.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Amentep

[BruceVC]

 

 

Barti my darling, don't be cynical

 

Remember what the great WW1 poet Wilfred Owen  said "  Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" (it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country)

 

He was right, poets are normally right 

 

 

That quote is terrible...AND depressing. I have no wish for myself or anyone else to die for some imaginary entity that's supposed to represent a collection of people with supposedly shared values when we could just as well not...especially when, as history has shown time and time again, the vast, vast majority of war is never altruistic or serving much decent purpose at all. And...it's depressing that that idea is somehow still seen as a good value to have even as more relatively pointless and/or fruitless conflicts are still being fought today.

 

Yeah that poem can be depressing....if you don't understand the full context

 

Wilfred Owen was  bitterly opposed to the war, he wrote many poems which raised his valid objections  in many ways ...here is the full poem ( its an awesome poem, you should read it ) around that quote...go to last paragraph to see what he really meant

 

 " Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,

Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,

Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,

And towards our distant rest began to trudge.

Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,

But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;

Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots

Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

 

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling

Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,

But someone still was yelling out and stumbling

And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—

Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,

As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,

He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori. "  

[Bartimaeus]

...you thought that the thread was getting too depressing, and that I shouldn't be so cynical... and you thought quoting from THAT was appropriate?

 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from - HTTYD frustrates my brother because much of the problems exist simply because the characters create them themselves.

I mostly like the adventure of it all. Sure (much like the TV show LOST) many problems could have been solved if someone hadn't kept an important piece of information to themselves, but its a fun adventure. Really wish I'd seen the original film in 3D just for the final dragon fight.

I've never watched Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar was just...okay. Didn't like enough to watch any sequels.

 

I don't mind the "much of the problems exist simply because the characters them themselves" angle: that's like...the basis of the human condition. It's just...for some reason, I can't identify with or like any of the characters. I don't know why...I just can't. It clearly has nothing to do with that, though, since that's pretty much the majority of Frozen, and I like all of the characters in Frozen, so...

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

...you thought that the thread was getting too depressing, and that I shouldn't be so cynical... and you thought quoting from THAT was appropriate?

 

 

 

Fair enough....you right on this one, that poem is definitely not a " feel-good "  poem. Its probably not appropriate ? 

[Bartimaeus]

 

...you thought that the thread was getting too depressing, and that I shouldn't be so cynical... and you thought quoting from THAT was appropriate?

 

 

 

Fair enough....you right on this one, that poem is definitely not a " feel-good "  poem. Its probably not appropriate ? 

 

 

Well, apparently, you found the direction towards Disney songs and animation in general depressing, so, you know...whatever floats your boat, pal, but yeah, not exactly what I'd call an uplifting poem.

 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Burgers cheer me up.

 

[Bartimaeus]

I don't like the vast majority of food - let's say...about 90-95% of most normal foods, including everything I see composing that burger, besides the lime - so if this thread moves towards food instead, you guys will just be making me more depressed. Do you really want to do that?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

I don't mind the "much of the problems exist simply because the characters them themselves" angle: that's like...the basis of the human condition. It's just...for some reason, I can't identify with or like any of the characters. I don't know why...I just can't. It clearly has nothing to do with that, though, since that's pretty much the majority of Frozen, and I like all of the characters in Frozen, so...

Well it just frustrates him. I don't mind it (everyone in LOST had the same problem).

 

At least Frozen motivates a bit why Elsa and Anna don't talk to one another.  But Hiccup and his dad don't just not talk to each other, they don't talk to anyone else either, instead just assuming what the other will think/do and acting accordingly.

 

[Malcador]

The top bun being out of alignment is unforgivable.

[Bartimaeus]

 

I don't mind the "much of the problems exist simply because the characters them themselves" angle: that's like...the basis of the human condition. It's just...for some reason, I can't identify with or like any of the characters. I don't know why...I just can't. It clearly has nothing to do with that, though, since that's pretty much the majority of Frozen, and I like all of the characters in Frozen, so...

Well it just frustrates him. I don't mind it (everyone in LOST had the same problem).

 

At least Frozen motivates a bit why Elsa and Anna don't talk to one another.  But Hiccup and his dad don't just not talk to each other, they don't talk to anyone else either, instead just assuming what the other will think/do and acting accordingly.

 

 

Yeah...instead of it being directly Anna's or Elsa's fault, it's their dumb parents. Great.

 

Beauty and the Beast is the best Disney 2D film, IMO. ...Even if Belle's face IS inconsistently drawn throughout the whole movie, which it is.

 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Amentep]

Well to be fair, Anna and Elsa's parents are following the advice of trolls.

 

Well mystic knowledgeable trolls.

 

Not making it any better is it?

 

Anyhow True Confession: I've never seen Beauty and the Beast.

 

Somehow I missed it at the theater and have continued to miss it whenever an opportunity has arisen where I could have seen it.

 

[Meshugger]

Burgers cheer me up.

 

 

Damn KP, you're looking good girl! (nice burger as well)

 

The "newest"-Disney movie that i have seen is Robin Hood. I haven't cared for the rest.

[Bartimaeus]

Robin Hood was fourty years ago! How have you avoided seeing any since then?

 

 

Well to be fair, Anna and Elsa's parents are following the advice of trolls.

 

Well mystic knowledgeable trolls.

 

Not making it any better is it?

 

Anyhow True Confession: I've never seen Beauty and the Beast.

 

Somehow I missed it at the theater and have continued to miss it whenever an opportunity has arisen where I could have seen it.

 

 

Mystical knowledgeable trolls who tell them that the best strategy for two sociable sisters who are as thick as thieves that the best thing to do would be to segregate and isolate them. Clearly, there wasn't much known about human psychology at this point in time...that, or troll psychology is very different, and they were all just idiots.

 

Beauty and the Beast is great...though, like all Disney movies, not without its flaws. Watch it sometime,

 

I've never seen the Aristocats. Always looked a bit mediocre to me. I can hear the voice actor for Baloo from the Jungle Book in that clip, though...

Edited May 28, 2015 by Bartimaeus