Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Keyrock]

@Meshugger - That was the peak of Polish military uniform magnificence.  Our uniforms got more and more plain over time from that point onward. 

Anyway, I found this while reading a game preview that has nothing at all to do with this topic and got a chuckle out of it:

Edited May 28, 2015 by Keyrock

[Meshugger]

More info about the panel at the Society of Professional Journalists-event: http://spjairplay.com/speakers/

 

 

 

The journalists and “AGG”

These speakers are not yet confirmed. And you probably won’t know when they are. Some journalists and anti GamerGate speakers (known as AGG) are concerned about online harassment interfering with their jobs and/or lives. Those who request it will remain anonymous until the day of AirPlay, when their names and titles will be posted here. Check back for details as they emerge.

 

*sensible chuckle*

Edited May 28, 2015 by Meshugger

[kirottu]

Ten years ago, Theodore Bergqvist pioneer when he started a site for digital sales of games. He named it GamersGate. What could go wrong? Swedish article translated by google.

 

Anti-GG harassed this guy out of business yet the article still somehow manages to be anti-GG. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Ten years ago, Theodore Bergqvist pioneer when he started a site for digital sales of games. He named it GamersGate. What could go wrong? Swedish article translated by google.

 

Anti-GG harassed this guy out of business yet the article still somehow manages to be anti-GG. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We made them do it.

[kirottu]

 

Based Sawyer defending his game back in the day. Just looking at it makes my testicles swell with pride.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Based Sawyer defending his game back in the day. Just looking at it makes my testicles swell with pride.

Roguey won't like the competition.

[BruceVC]

Ten years ago, Theodore Bergqvist pioneer when he started a site for digital sales of games. He named it GamersGate. What could go wrong? Swedish article translated by google.

 

Anti-GG harassed this guy out of business yet the article still somehow manages to be anti-GG. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

Ten years ago, Theodore Bergqvist pioneer when he started a site for digital sales of games. He named it GamersGate. What could go wrong? Swedish article translated by google.

 

Anti-GG harassed this guy out of business yet the article still somehow manages to be anti-GG. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We made them do it.

 

 

Nice, so you guys caused a legitimate businessman to face criticism and Internet abuse because of the perceived association with GG

 

And to make things worse he has now sold his company...to a Russian !!!

 

I hope you guys are happy  

[bluepotions]

 

 

 

To me what was interesting was his comments on Ms Amy Hennig, one of the stalwarts of the industry, and involved in some of the biggest successes of the past twenty years. A woman whom has blazed a trail and yet does not feel that she was at all discriminated against, even though she began working in an era when men were undoubtedly the largest demographic in the field. To hear that she sees the field as a meritocracy is far more believable than Mr McIntosh's sock puppet spouting his uninformed tripe about the evil developers are perpetuating.

 

To paint developers, whom from what i've seen are mostly civilised, creative and frankly liberal individuals, as sexist and repressive has always seemed quite frankly ludicrous to me. If anything the underlying themes of almost all games has been one of undeniable morality, rather than perpetuating the desperately crafted tropes their detractors invent every week. Like Mr Dyack states this is the negative and harmful misrepresentation that may well deter new people from entering this profession.

 

In my opinion of course.

 

Nonek you do realize that just because a particular women hasn't experienced sexism in the  gaming industry that doesn't  mean that sexism doesn't exist in that industry, you know that right?

 

 

Its not just her though. Jade Raymond said she didn't have much experience with it either, and they are the only established female game devs to have really commented on it. The ones complaining about rampant sexism in the games industry are people who have never held a real game dev job nor produced anything worth a damn. Yes, that doesn't mean there isn't sexism, but if women who have been in the industry for decades haven't had any experiences of note regarding sexism throughout their career, it can't be as rampant as the LW's claim.

 

 

I can produce an excellent link that was posted on Polygon that goes into great detail around the systemic sexism that has existed for decades in the gaming industry. This is from the publishers as well. I have posted it before but can post it again ?

 

Yes its not rampant but it still exists and Nonek was suggesting it doesn't exist. I was challenging that view 

 

 

Just gonna say, I don't take Polygon seriously at all. I'm gay, and one of their idiots writers made this massive thing about how they'd made some "brave" comment about russia's anti-gay laws and it really just pissed me off.

 

All she ****ing said was "wow the game is so colorful, pretty weird considering the setting, right?" and every ****ing idiot in the journalism industry dropped by her twitter to tip the fedora on her bravery. Me calling out her acting like her off-hand snarky comment had nothing on actual protesters was shrugged off as harassment, by the way. So **** Polygon, and everyone who writes for it. It is factually a trash website. Did you not know this? 

[bluepotions]

Ian Miles Cheong appologized to GamerGate and Gamers in general: http://stillgray.com/post/119992928665/what-games-mean-to-me

 

Sounds a bit too opportunist to me.

[Longknife]

Based Sawyer defending his game back in the day. Just looking at it makes my testicles swell with pride.

 

 

And this is why I'm not with GamerGate anymore:  http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/37moxz/people_josh_sawyer_of_obsidian_defends_fallout/crnzbaq

 

 

Check the comment thread that's minimized for too many downvotes by Sylphied. Why the hell is he downvoted for stating the facts while the idiot doing mental gymnastics to try and guilt Obsidian is upvoted to oblivion?

 

We are all a part of this community. We know in what ways to be disappointed in Obsidian and in what ways they don't deserve blame. We saw it happen and develop as it happened. Seeing **** twisted like that just to continue being angry feels way too similar to the SJWs themselves. 20 people is not representative of the entire movement, but I still find it cause for concern that their narrative is a popular one that isn't being slapped with a truth stick.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Longknife

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

To me what was interesting was his comments on Ms Amy Hennig, one of the stalwarts of the industry, and involved in some of the biggest successes of the past twenty years. A woman whom has blazed a trail and yet does not feel that she was at all discriminated against, even though she began working in an era when men were undoubtedly the largest demographic in the field. To hear that she sees the field as a meritocracy is far more believable than Mr McIntosh's sock puppet spouting his uninformed tripe about the evil developers are perpetuating.

 

To paint developers, whom from what i've seen are mostly civilised, creative and frankly liberal individuals, as sexist and repressive has always seemed quite frankly ludicrous to me. If anything the underlying themes of almost all games has been one of undeniable morality, rather than perpetuating the desperately crafted tropes their detractors invent every week. Like Mr Dyack states this is the negative and harmful misrepresentation that may well deter new people from entering this profession.

 

In my opinion of course.

 

Nonek you do realize that just because a particular women hasn't experienced sexism in the  gaming industry that doesn't  mean that sexism doesn't exist in that industry, you know that right?

 

 

Its not just her though. Jade Raymond said she didn't have much experience with it either, and they are the only established female game devs to have really commented on it. The ones complaining about rampant sexism in the games industry are people who have never held a real game dev job nor produced anything worth a damn. Yes, that doesn't mean there isn't sexism, but if women who have been in the industry for decades haven't had any experiences of note regarding sexism throughout their career, it can't be as rampant as the LW's claim.

 

 

I can produce an excellent link that was posted on Polygon that goes into great detail around the systemic sexism that has existed for decades in the gaming industry. This is from the publishers as well. I have posted it before but can post it again ?

 

Yes its not rampant but it still exists and Nonek was suggesting it doesn't exist. I was challenging that view 

 

 

Just gonna say, I don't take Polygon seriously at all. I'm gay, and one of their idiots writers made this massive thing about how they'd made some "brave" comment about russia's anti-gay laws and it really just pissed me off.

 

All she ****ing said was "wow the game is so colorful, pretty weird considering the setting, right?" and every ****ing idiot in the journalism industry dropped by her twitter to tip the fedora on her bravery. Me calling out her acting like her off-hand snarky comment had nothing on actual protesters was shrugged off as harassment, by the way. So **** Polygon, and everyone who writes for it. It is factually a trash website. Did you not know this? 

 

No I am not opposed to Polygon, they are do represent certain SJ  views and raise some good points

 

But like every website sometimes there journalists will write an article that is misplaced and the intention of the article stupefies me

 

Like the review of Witcher 3, the journalist was more concerned with the SJ aspect of the game and criticizing it. So I don't support everything Polygon says or does. And those comments about Russia I also find annoying as they aren't meaningful and smack of populist rhetoric 

[kirottu]

 

Based Sawyer defending his game back in the day. Just looking at it makes my testicles swell with pride.

 

 

And this is why I'm not with GamerGate anymore:  http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/37moxz/people_josh_sawyer_of_obsidian_defends_fallout/crnzbaq

 

 

Check the comment thread that's minimized for too many downvotes by Sylphied. Why the hell is he downvoted for stating the facts while the idiot doing mental gymnastics to try and guilt Obsidian is upvoted to oblivion?

 

We are all a part of this community. We know in what ways to be disappointed in Obsidian and in what ways they don't deserve blame. We saw it happen and develop as it happened. Seeing **** twisted like that just to continue being angry feels way too similar to the SJWs themselves. 20 people is not representative of the entire movement, but I still find it cause for concern that their narrative is a popular one that isn't being slapped with a truth stick.

 

 

There was someone who said early on when GG was just starting and people were discussing tactics and such, "if you see SJW doing something don't do the same thing". I still think it is the best advice for GamerGate.

Edited May 29, 2015 by kirottu

[Barothmuk]

Here's a fun tangent: Did you know that when a guy comments on a girl's ass and says she's got a nice ass, he's actually subconciously and completely instinctually recognizing that she's got healthy birthing hips and is more likely to provide a safe and healthy birth?

Another fun tangent: Did you know you don't have to comment on a woman's arse and can in fact keep such comments to yourself.

[Namutree]

 

Based Sawyer defending his game back in the day. Just looking at it makes my testicles swell with pride.

 

 

And this is why I'm not with GamerGate anymore:  http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/37moxz/people_josh_sawyer_of_obsidian_defends_fallout/crnzbaq

 

 

Check the comment thread that's minimized for too many downvotes by Sylphied. Why the hell is he downvoted for stating the facts while the idiot doing mental gymnastics to try and guilt Obsidian is upvoted to oblivion?

 

We are all a part of this community. We know in what ways to be disappointed in Obsidian and in what ways they don't deserve blame. We saw it happen and develop as it happened. Seeing **** twisted like that just to continue being angry feels way too similar to the SJWs themselves. 20 people is not representative of the entire movement, but I still find it cause for concern that their narrative is a popular one that isn't being slapped with a truth stick.

 

That whole incident was so stupid.

[GhoulishVisage]

 

And this is why I'm not with GamerGate anymore:  http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/37moxz/people_josh_sawyer_of_obsidian_defends_fallout/crnzbaq

 

Check the comment thread that's minimized for too many downvotes by Sylphied. Why the hell is he downvoted for stating the facts while the idiot doing mental gymnastics to try and guilt Obsidian is upvoted to oblivion?

 

We are all a part of this community. We know in what ways to be disappointed in Obsidian and in what ways they don't deserve blame. We saw it happen and develop as it happened. Seeing **** twisted like that just to continue being angry feels way too similar to the SJWs themselves. 20 people is not representative of the entire movement, but I still find it cause for concern that their narrative is a popular one that isn't being slapped with a truth stick.

 

 

You could also look at it as a thread supporting Sawyer's handling of criticism for including sensitive subjects in New Vegas with over six hundred upvotes compared to the comment inside with twenty.

Edited May 29, 2015 by GhoulishVisage

[Nonek]

Ten years ago, Theodore Bergqvist pioneer when he started a site for digital sales of games. He named it GamersGate. What could go wrong? Swedish article translated by google.

 

Anti-GG harassed this guy out of business yet the article still somehow manages to be anti-GG. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

This is a real tragedy, bullied out of the industry by idiot, barely literate SJF's, it's becoming very clear that they are nothing but an harassing hate movement. However Mr Sawyer's logical and truthful reply to that critic is immensely heartening, when one stops placing any troubling real world issues in any form of media because of percieved offense, well then one has taken a step back from truth and freedom of expression, which are of course far more important than feelings. Which one can never account for in any case, especially in todays world of professional, well funded through Patreon victimhood.

 

Edit: I agree that the best method of combating such extremism is to remain moderate, reasonable and ethical. Truth will and is slowly being outed.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Nonek

[bluepotions]

 

Based Sawyer defending his game back in the day. Just looking at it makes my testicles swell with pride.

 

 

And this is why I'm not with GamerGate anymore:  http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/37moxz/people_josh_sawyer_of_obsidian_defends_fallout/crnzbaq

 

 

Check the comment thread that's minimized for too many downvotes by Sylphied. Why the hell is he downvoted for stating the facts while the idiot doing mental gymnastics to try and guilt Obsidian is upvoted to oblivion?

 

We are all a part of this community. We know in what ways to be disappointed in Obsidian and in what ways they don't deserve blame. We saw it happen and develop as it happened. Seeing **** twisted like that just to continue being angry feels way too similar to the SJWs themselves. 20 people is not representative of the entire movement, but I still find it cause for concern that their narrative is a popular one that isn't being slapped with a truth stick.

 

The biggest issue with Gamergate in general is any criticism of them is well, they're gonna **** on you for it. They're ****ing dumb as **** about it. A dude made a video showing that even tho the escapist binned moviebob and other SJ types and hired Lizzy and such, they were unethical as ****. People called the dude a ****, said he had a "whiny neckbeard voice" and told him to **** off and kill himself. It wasn't until Sargon of Akkad came in and said "no, really this is all an excellent point here" that they stopped being little ****ters.

 

I pointed out that by constantly attacking people based off a perceived lack of masculine prowess you were literally feeding the toxic masculinity narrative, so insults like "cuck"(a man who is being cheated on by his wife and is too much of a weakling to do anything about it) were not helping, and I was subject to three hours of moronic hate spewing bull**** on twitter from these idiots. They honestly consider this appropriate behavior and they hate anyone that doesn't let them be the **** they want to be.

 

They're also starting to do "sjw" tactics that they apparently despise. When it was revealed that Will Wheaton would star in Codename Steam as one of the characters(did a right **** job btw) they were all going "WELL NOT BUYING, I DONT WANT TO SUPPORT/ENABLE SOMEONE THAT TOXIC REE" and so on and so forth. Really pissed me off because that is literally an "sjw" tactic. They all calmed down once they heard Mr. Baldwin was also in the game, but it was still stupid. So a lot of people in Gamergate are idiots.

 

 

 

 

 

No I am not opposed to Polygon, they are do represent certain SJ  views and raise some good points

 

But like every website sometimes there journalists will write an article that is misplaced and the intention of the article stupefies me

 

Like the review of Witcher 3, the journalist was more concerned with the SJ aspect of the game and criticizing it. So I don't support everything Polygon says or does. And those comments about Russia I also find annoying as they aren't meaningful and smack of populist rhetoric 

 

 

Well what does Polygon post that you do support? The childish journalists who have tantrums on twitter? The articles claiming Shadows of Mordor encourages violence against women because you can sneak up on (and smooch) your wife? When have they produced not total trash? When they do game announcements? 

 

The only real gaming journalism is either announcements a game's coming out, announcements a game is out, or announcements that a game's been cancelled, and everything else is just trash blowing around on an empty beach.

[Longknife]

 

Here's a fun tangent: Did you know that when a guy comments on a girl's ass and says she's got a nice ass, he's actually subconciously and completely instinctually recognizing that she's got healthy birthing hips and is more likely to provide a safe and healthy birth?

Another fun tangent: Did you know you don't have to comment on a woman's arse and can in fact keep such comments to yourself.

 

 

 

I hereby award this post the "Most Useless Post that Contributes Nothing but Pure Grade-A Snark" award.

 

Seeing as I never said men should voice such commentary, never said that I do it myself, how that doesn't really add anything onto the discussion, and quite frankly it just manages to come across as "herpderp I'm too simple-minded to avoid repeatedly responding to the same people with a hostile attitude regardless of what they're actually saying like some pretentious 14 year old child," I can't really think of a better candidate for this award.

 

Congratulations.

 

 

 

You could also look at it as a thread supporting Sawyer's handling of criticism for including sensitive subjects in New Vegas with over six hundred upvotes compared to the comment inside with twenty.

 

 

The issue is that, well, look at the post I linked and other posts within the thread.

 

It's more like it's upvoted to be discussed. But what is the tone of the posts? A lot of "that's what he gets for pandering to them" or "now I feel slightly less guilty about buying New Vegas" and commentary that implies that developers should somehow prove themselves to the likes of GamerGate to receive it's blessing.

 

It's very childish, to me, and that's what alarms me. An example of what that attitude reminds me of? Bare with me a sec while I explain: I played an MMO not long ago and met a guy who....So there was this daily quest where you have to go through this dungeon and complete it and you get some stuff. Some people AFK on certain levels of it since it's safe...-ish. What happened? He AFKed with an alt character. A factionmate who was doing the dungeon with their alt character killed his character because they were just the type of person to kill all characters they didn't know on their way through. She had no idea it was his character, or she wouldn't've done it. He checks his computer, finds out, and what's his reaction to his factionmate and comrade unknowingly killing his alt character with their alt? He reported her alt account and provided them with proof that the account was shared by two people, which is illegal and gets the account permanently banned.

 

 That? That's insanity. That's "omg how DARE someone cross my ego, now they must pay for all eternity." That's the most vindictive, childish attitude I've ever seen. And that's kind of what those kinds of people that I linked to remind me of, and that's why it alarms me. They view GamerGate as some crusade on a warpath and all that stand in it's way should PAY!!! You're either with it or against it, as refusing to join it is an INSULT of the HIGHEST ORDER to their outrageous egos, so you should be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly if you don't go along with their agenda.

 

 

Granted, as both you and I have pointed out, it's not representative of all of GamerGate. It's still a minority. Me personally though, I am not comfortable with the fact that this minority is happily co-existing amongst all other GamerGate supporters and no one slaps them into shape. I've actually tried, and you just get brigaded and downvoted.

 

My issue is basically that, with the current climate of that subreddit, I don't see that minority shrinking, only growing. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I honestly just expect the group think and dogpiling anyone who remotely disagrees to continue. I mean, look at Pakman. Pakman was regarded with high respect one minute, and then the guy does ONE interview with Sommers with a "clickbait" title, a critical tone and most of the context being about feminism, and what happens? Tons of posts about how "he's dead to us now." WTF? Calm the hell down you premadonna little ****s. I didn't see anything clickbait-y, he's always critical, and wtf else does Sommers talk about? Her interest in GG is purely in regards to feminist parallels; she offers nothing beyond that.

[Meshugger]

All that up/down-voting and shadowbanning just shows what kind of cancer reddit is. The chans ftw.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

All that up/down-voting and shadowbanning just shows what kind of cancer reddit is. 8chan ftw.

FTFY. Halfchan is just as cancer as plebbit.

[Meshugger]

 

All that up/down-voting and shadowbanning just shows what kind of cancer reddit is. 8chan ftw.

FTFY. Halfchan is just as cancer as plebbit.

 

 

Fair enough.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Well what does Polygon post that you do support? The childish journalists who have tantrums on twitter? The articles claiming Shadows of Mordor encourages violence against women because you can sneak up on (and smooch) your wife? When have they produced not total trash? When they do game announcements? 

 

The only real gaming journalism is either announcements a game's coming out, announcements a game is out, or announcements that a game's been cancelled, and everything else is just trash blowing around on an empty beach.

 

 

Seriously there are many good articles on Polygon that discuss many relevant SJ issues

 

Here is one of my favorite, its long but well worth the read

 

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed

[Amentep]

That's still a nicely designed page.  Kudos to whoever did it.

 

I caveat my previous issue with it from the last time you posted it, though.

 

(previous discussion)

Edited May 29, 2015 by Amentep

[Volourn]

So... Bruce has started to spam repeat article. L0L

 

 

Also, news of how women are so pure and perfect and loveable innocent angels while men are monsters and rapuists and evil doers:

 

http://www.thelocal.fr/20150529/frenchwoman-jailed-for-torturing-boyfriend

 

Talk about male privledge and misogny. :D

[Calax]

So... Bruce has started to spam repeat article. L0L

 

 

Also, news of how women are so pure and perfect and loveable innocent angels while men are monsters and rapuists and evil doers:

 

http://www.thelocal.fr/20150529/frenchwoman-jailed-for-torturing-boyfriend

 

Talk about male privledge and misogny. :D

Most relevant bit from that article is the last paragraph

 

 

 

Medkour's prison sentence, half of which is suspended, is considered "convertible" under French law, which means she could eventually escape jail time and perform community service, wear an electronic bracelet or be allowed to work part time.