Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[bluepotions]

 

Either McIntosh is a level 50 troll or he's insane.

 

It's actually weird how his entire point beings "LOL YOU'RE FUNNY" when people disagree. Like he can't back himself up at all so he just starts laughing at the dude. ****ing sad.

[Meshugger]

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

[BruceVC]

 

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

 

And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point 

 

He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating  women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " 

[JadedWolf]

 

 

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

 

And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point 

 

He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating  women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " 

 

 

Honestly Bruce, I am actually someone who would in reality never ever make a "crass" remark about women, but your continued attempts at thought policing other people make even me want to take to social media and loudly proclaim my admiration for women's boobies.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

 

And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point 

 

He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating  women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " 

 

 

...and we're back to hobby-fascism, since you have no clue about the difference between a japanese game company and a multinational corporation. You cannot fight back your inner Rush Limbaugh, just let him free already.

 

You still haven't commented on the links that have i provided for you.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

 

And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point 

 

He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating  women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " 

 

 

Honestly Bruce, I am actually someone who would in reality never ever make a "crass" remark about women, but your continued attempts at thought policing other people make even me want to take to social media and loudly proclaim my admiration for women's boobies.

 

 

If you want to make crass comments about women  please don't let me stop you, I hope you feel good about it afterwards 

 

And I'm  not enforcing "thought policing ". I am saying it is worrying and  unacceptable for a producer of a company who represents the ideals of that company to make comments like that. Its really about the level of responsibility that the company wants to project. Just because this particular company is fine with there producer objectifying women that doesn't make it right 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

 

And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point 

 

He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating  women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " 

 

 

...and we're back to hobby-fascism, since you have no clue about the difference between a japanese game company and a multinational corporation. You cannot fight back your inner Rush Limbaugh, just let him free already.

 

You still haven't commented on the links that have i provided for you.

 

 

And you clearly just don't understand what a companies code of conduct means or represents  and the importance of a company image 

 

But I'm done with this discussion, I cant keep explaining the same reason I object to the update. Thanks for the debate anyway, it has been interesting

[Darkpriest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

^Yikes!

 

On another note, remember Senran Kagura? The game that caused headlines by the usual suspects? The producer has now answered:

 

Why would he make such a strange comment? Is this a joke ?

He is dead serious. Stop being so ignorant and judgemental of japanese culture.

I doubt anyone would be so offensive

That's in line with Japanese culture. Maybe you should check your privilege and not try to force your culture on him.

No I don't believe you, and privilege has nothing to do with it. I am talking about universal themes and considerations that resonate with most people

I am fairly sure that if you would take the whole world populace as a base this would not meet the criteria of "most people".

 

All these SJWs should jusy get their asses from the comfy chairs they are using and go and deal with real problems of discrimination in middle east, african and asian countries. And if they feel really brave they should sign up to take arms vs ISIS militians similar scum that burns alive barely teenage girls for not complying with sexual demands...

 

Those are real problems and not some light jokes or a difference in a pixelation of games. They can also always fund their own game from whatever developer if they will raise funds.

 

I have yet to see a situation where a modern company would not follow a rule of equal pay for equal work no matter.the gender or sexual preference. Having said that each gender has different risks when being hired and thats based on biology.

 

There are obvious things like no means no and respectful treatment etc. But thats base line common sense. What a lot of SJW groups are calling for are privilges, tangible advantages over others just because they are a. Minority b. Were mistreated i 100+ years ago. This should not have place.

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

No, you just making these stupid criticisms about my posting etiquette and I  refuse to agree with you 

 

 

 

I'll just say this once so there is no doubt and I'm mentioning this so you don't feel the need to bring it up again. I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't take me seriously ....do you really think I could have stayed active on a thread like GG if I was expecting a serious discussion from everyone all the time. My reasons for making certain points are based on principle and I''m well aware many people don't agree so they find other ways to dismiss them...like " You don't have principle "  or ' you are SJ hypocrite because you go to strip clubs " 

 

You musn't worry about if people want to debate with me, I have plenty of interesting debates all the time

 

 

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check!

 

And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point 

 

He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating  women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " 

 

 

...and we're back to hobby-fascism, since you have no clue about the difference between a japanese game company and a multinational corporation. You cannot fight back your inner Rush Limbaugh, just let him free already.

 

You still haven't commented on the links that have i provided for you.

 

 

And you clearly just don't understand what a companies code of conduct means or represents  and the importance of a company image 

 

But I'm done with this discussion, I cant keep explaining the same reason I object to the update. Thanks for the debate anyway, it has been interesting

 

 

Lol

 

Not one.single.comment. on the videos representing mainstream media and art. You don't even know what game it is even? I mean look at this:

 

[Calax]

Dems Jiggle physics doe!

[JadedWolf]

By the way, completely off-topic, but yes, Japan does have a strange and incomprehensible view on sexuality:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/artist-who-made-canoe-modelled-on-her-vagina-arrested-on-obscenity-charges-9902488.html

 

Edit: to be sure, the strange thing here is that she's arrested and prosecuted for doing this.

Edited May 31, 2015 by JadedWolf

[Calax]

By the way, completely off-topic, but yes, Japan does have a strange and incomprehensible view on sexuality:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/artist-who-made-canoe-modelled-on-her-vagina-arrested-on-obscenity-charges-9902488.html

 

Edit: to be sure, the strange thing here is that she's arrested and prosecuted for doing this.

Actually that's from when America rebuilt their country. They decided to try to take on our morals so it became pure obscenity to even show anything like a human genetalia in any context other than religious ones. Thus that story, and the creation of tentacle porn (because as long as it's not actually human you can show phallus)

 

The panties fetish came about the same way. From what I've heard, they introduced panties during the reconstruction as something a "modest" woman would wear, so they became all the rage, but were only available at extremely high prices. So if a woman had panties it meant she was well off for a while.

[BruceVC]

By the way, completely off-topic, but yes, Japan does have a strange and incomprehensible view on sexuality:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/artist-who-made-canoe-modelled-on-her-vagina-arrested-on-obscenity-charges-9902488.html

 

Edit: to be sure, the strange thing here is that she's arrested and prosecuted for doing this.

Now I see this as artistic freedom and to arrest her is ridiculous 

[Nonek]

I've only visited Japan a dozen or so times, and have mainly been involved in business at the time, however i'm not aware of any corporation restricting the private opinions of its employees. Indeed there seems to be a very solid line between the social and professional, where I may laugh, joke and carouse with an influential client outside work, but the next morning I must remain professional, sober and respectful. The developer of the Metal Gear franchise for instance frequently trolls his players, fans and whatnot as well as deriding and mocking various subject matters, and it is not considered a company line in any way, shape or form, merely the developer having an opinion.

 

Edit: The video game business may well have a more relaxed staff atmosphere than those i've interacted with, and attract more individual spirits, as it does in the west. Certainly individuality was on the rise in the thirty or so years I spent visting Japan, there did seem to be a cultural shift, and an embracing of pseudo western mores, along with anti western sentiment.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Nonek

[Meshugger]

*sigh*

 

https://archive.is/Tqy4E

 

Try to get past the first paragraph, i dare you.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

*sigh*

 

https://archive.is/Tqy4E

 

Try to get past the first paragraph, i dare you.

I quit halfway through. Was ****-tier writing and the points raised were bad.

[Nonek]

The basic flawed old argument, gamers are ruining the medium with their entitlement, and one that blatantly ignores fact. GOG would not exist if this were true, Steams massive library of old games would not sell, just because piracy exists does not mean gamers will pirate if they have a legitimate alternative. As it stands piracy has for a damn long time been an unofficial source of curation, curation that large publishers actively shirk. If they want the history of games to be forgotten and remain unarchived that is their business, but it is a silly attitude, indeed many lessons can be learned from old games.

 

One can of course see a benefit to this for large publishers, when they prate of the latest best game ever with unique innovations, well that rings true only if they do not acknowledge a thirty year old game that humbles their new one and pioneered those self same innovations, and many more that the new game does not have. As it is the curation and archiving of old games does need a movement to ensure that it is carried out, and most publishers and game journalists have proven that they are unfit for this task, indeed they seem to dismiss old games without even experiencing them. Foolishness of the first grade, equivalent to me dismissing Thomas Tallis as a religious composer or Charles Dickens as an author.

 

If anything the industry should be bearing in mind the games of the past, that offered much the modern AAA+ products don't offer, and are forgotten and reviled by a press whom have championed decline and despise anything but the newest, fashionable offering. The term nostalgia goggles is always used, even when an objective side by side comparison is made.

 

Edit: Just to clarify I do not advocate or indulge in piracy, but one can see where it has become a useful tool in maintaining the history of gaming, when publishers have actively shirked and avoided that responsibility.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Nonek

[JadedWolf]

I tried to read it, but I didn't quite understand it. It tried to make some rambling point about piracy, but the odd thing was that it didn't even mention Somalia.

 

You would think a piece on the current state of piracy would at least mention Somalia...

[Volourn]

Huh?  Some of the points made logical sense. More than SJW bullcrap or Obsidian forumites nonsense usually does, anyways.

[Meshugger]

Like clockwork. I wonder how many journalists will retweet or favourite this?

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Like clockwork. I wonder how many journalists will retweet or favourite this?

 

[Oerwinde]

*sigh*

 

https://archive.is/Tqy4E

 

Try to get past the first paragraph, i dare you.

Read the whole thing. Made a lot of good points. Need to save $30 more to build my Retropie...

[Nonek]

Like clockwork. I wonder how many journalists will retweet or favourite this?

 

 

It really is pathetic. I mean it's not as if Dwarves, Elves, men of different nationalities or everybody else is routinely insulted in the game is it? I mean at no point in the game does the protagonist get called a freak, mutant, unholy, and a whole host of other expletives. Oh wait a minute it happens every five feet as you walk around any suburban hub, and in battle they yell out much worse.

 

So what McIntosh's sock puppet is saying is that Ciri should recieve preferential treatment, enemies intent on gutting her should do it in a respectful manner, and that rude words should never be used around women only men. The idiocy of McIntosh is really reaching new depths, and it probably won't be criticised, picked up on or even disputed by the sycophantic press.

 

This is really what Tropes vs women is all about, infantilising women and shielding them from anything vaguely realistic, casting out the internal consistency that the Witcher series has sought to craft since its inception and making it a place where shrinking violets  are not subjected to "nasty gendered insults." It's insulting to any women of strength whom can deal with the same abuse the male protagonist recieves, and discern the difference between fantastic elements such as Ghouls and Wraiths, and accurate depictions of a very well crafted harsh, medieval inspired world.

 

Edit: I'd hate to be the kind of man whom believes that his good lady wife is so sickeningly weak and fragile, when in reality I know Mrs Nonek is a hard nosed Yorkshire woman whom is of a stout constitution, and would feel positively insulted by this spoiled San Francisco hipster telling her to be offended by a virtual construct. Such a low opinion of women in general, as if they are so delicate.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Nonek

[licketysplit]

 

Like clockwork. I wonder how many journalists will retweet or favourite this?

 

 

 

LMAO, perfect follow up GIF. Wallow in your misery Anita, no one cares.

[Hurlshort]

Obviously a few people care, she's managed to make a decent living off of this whole tropes conversation.  I'm not sure why this is a big deal to anyone.  She has her agenda, she's been vocal about it for awhile now, and yet the industry is still producing games like The Witcher.  What is the big deal?