An old but endless discussion...the Backer Achievement

[ddillon]

 

There is no significant difference between backer and preorder exclusives: You buy at a certain place at a certain time and you are rewarded for your support with a certain bonus.

 

This is a dangerous misconception. The people who pre-order are making a legal purchase: if for some reason the game never comes out (which is very unlikely since games don't become available for pre-order until they are nearly finished), they are entitled to get their money back. The backers are taking all of the risks of an investor without the possibility of larger rewards that investors get when a venture does better than expected. If the developer spends all of the money and realizes that the product still cannot be finished, the backers have no recourse. In cases like PoE, where the project is successfully delivered (albeit later than initially advertised), Kickstarter backing is indeed equivalent to a very long term pre-order, but you cannot know this when you back a project and in fact Kickstarter goes to considerable lengths to inform would-be backers that it is not a store and that projects can and do fail.

I already knew that, but thank you for taking the time to explain it nonetheless. You are correct in describing the differences between preordering and backing on Kickstarter, and it is an important distinction. But that difference is not significant in regards to the subject of exclusives. For example, whether an exclusive achievement is awarded for preordering or pledging, the issues that I described above do not change.

Edited May 4, 2015 by ddillon

[wanderon]

Wait! You wanted 100% of achievements? .... Should have been a backer...

[Bryy]

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

They already don't.

 

This is just people being weird.

[Rosveen]

 

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

They already don't.

 

This is just people being weird.

 

 

Then what are we even discussing? 

[ddillon]

 

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

They already don't.

 

This is just people being weird.

Are you sure about that? I was told otherwise, but I don't use Steam and can't check it.

 

That would indeed be a better situation, tho I'd still say achievements shouldn't be awarded for backing, preordering, etc.

[Bryy]

 

 

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

They already don't.

 

This is just people being weird.

 

 

Then what are we even discussing? 

 

People are upset that other people have a visual indicator that they actually helped out in the creation of the game. And, apparently, other people are getting upset that people are getting upset that people are getting upset.

[scrotiemcb]

Outside of my earlier, humorous quip...

1. Being a backer isn't really an achievement. It does not fit thematically with the other achievements, which involve in-game exploits.

2. Appreciation for backers could and should have been shown through a different route.

3. In the grand scheme of things, the seriousness of this mistake is so trivial that this degree of discussion on it is hugely disproportionate. There are at least a hundred more serious flaws in the game, many of which are also too trivial to merit serious discussion.

[Nakia]

 

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

They already don't.

 

This is just people being weird.

 

I hope you are correct.  If this is true and the Backer achievement doesn't count then there is no problem.

 

Can some one who is not a backer but has a steam game tell us if the Backer achiement shows  in their locked achievements?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Nakia

[luzarius]

Killing all the backers in game to earn an achievment seems wrong

[Psychevore]

Can some one who is not a backer but has a steam game tell us if the Backer achiement shows  in their locked achievements?

Yes. But I couldn't care less, personally

 

On another note though: love the outrage. Maybe those people will back a new game now. Tricky Obsidian

Edited May 5, 2015 by Psychevore

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

 

They already don't.

 

The backer achievement does count for 100%. Non backers can only get up to 97%. Next time, people should back games on KS if they want their 100% Steam achievements.

[Bryy]

Where in game does it ever indicate achievements, an external feature, exist as an internal system? The game doesn't ever have a percentage system. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by Bryy

[MotelOK]

I'm sympathetic to people who didn't back the kickstarter but still want 100% achievements. I got all the achievements in New Vegas because I loved it so much, even those damn Caravan ones. Maybe instead of a unique achievement, kickstarter backers could have a unique Steam Badge?

[sp3cw4r]

I'm a backer and have the achievement, but don't think it should be done this way.

 

Developers should have a golden rule for all achievements being achievable by all players regardless.  No time limit, backer, pre-order, promotion crap involved there at all.  Still have a pet for the backers, and a cloak for the Obsidian Order sure, but if you create an achievement for obtaining all pets or cloaks, don't include the promo pet or cloak in the achievement completion. 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Where in game does it ever indicate achievements, an external feature, exist as an internal system? The game doesn't ever have a percentage system. 

 

Are you on Steam? The backer achievement does count for 100% Steam achievements.

 

Developers should have a golden rule for all achievements being achievable by all players regardless.  No time limit, backer, pre-order, promotion crap involved there at all.  Still have a pet for the backers, and a cloak for the Obsidian Order sure, but if you create an achievement for obtaining all pets or cloaks, don't include the promo pet or cloak in the achievement completion. 

 

Blizzard have feats of strength achievements which a lot of people can't get. eg. Beta achievement for Diablo 3. Other games like World of Tanks have in game items like their beta tanks. Not sure if you can do a Feat of Strength achievement in Steam and not count to the 100%

Edited May 6, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Katarack21]

To summarize this thread:

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

"Who cares."

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

[scrotiemcb]

I thought that summarized all posts, ever. Yours included. This one, too.

Edited May 6, 2015 by scrotiemcb

[Rosveen]

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

 

"Who cares, I don't want it so you can't have it either."

 

"Not fair!"

 

"Bitch whine filthy achievement whore! Whine! Should have backed the KS! Bitch! Bitch!"

 

...where 95% of whining is done by one person.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Rosveen

[Katarack21]

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

Right, bitching and whining like I said. Glad we're in agreement.

[GrinningReaper659]

I'm a backer and have the achievement, but don't think it should be done this way.

 

Developers should have a golden rule for all achievements being achievable by all players regardless.  No time limit, backer, pre-order, promotion crap involved there at all.  Still have a pet for the backers, and a cloak for the Obsidian Order sure, but if you create an achievement for obtaining all pets or cloaks, don't include the promo pet or cloak in the achievement completion. 

 

As far as I'm concerned the only line that shouldn't be crossed is exclusive anything which provides an in-game advantage of any sort. They crossed this line with Gaun's Pledge as far as I can tell, which does piss me off. Achievements, though? They don't provide an in-game advantage of any sort, they're not even technically in-game at all, so the only justification for not making an achievement exclusive is, again, a clear message to a company (from a loyal customer in this case) to the effect of it's wrong to appreciate loyal customers! I really do not get this. A Steam achievement that I'll never see (I use GOG) obviously doesn't matter much to me and since it's irrelevant I guess you could say that it's not much good for appreciation either. It's still recognition of loyal customers at least, and as long as it doesn't change anything in-game, then it has nothing to do with gaming and everything to do with good business practices.

[Rosveen]

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

Right, bitching and whining like I said. Glad we're in agreement.

It warms my heart to see you uphold the PoE forum sacred tradition of calling everyone you disagree with a whiner and a troll.

[FlintlockJazz]

You're all whiners and trolls, just like me, so shut the hell up and get me my tea bitches!

[Amentep]

I honestly can't fathom achievements. I don't see why anyone even likes them, much less tries to collect them. They range from "can't miss" (DOOR TO ADVENTURE: You opened your first door! Congratulations) to nigh impossible (MIDNIGHTER: kill 100000000000000000 opponents between 11:59 pm and 12:01 pm to unlock).

That said, since people seem to care a lot about it for whatever reason that seems alien and foreign to me, it probably would have been better to not lock the retail customer away from 100%. 

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

Right, bitching and whining like I said. Glad we're in agreement.

It warms my heart to see you uphold the PoE forum sacred tradition of calling everyone you disagree with a whiner and a troll.

 

I never called anyone a troll. Don't push your assumptions on to me. Nor do I call everybody I disagree with a whiner; just the ones whining about something.

[Bryy]

 

To summarize this thread:

 

"Bitch bitch whine I want whine bitch not fair whine."

 

"Who cares."

 

"Why should you get something that was given as a reward for a specific action which you didn't take?"

 

"I care! Whine! I want! Bitch! Bitch! Not fair!"

More like:

 

"I don't like it and here's why."

 

"Who cares, I don't want it so you can't have it either."

 

"Not fair!"

 

"Bitch whine filthy achievement whore! Whine! Should have backed the KS! Bitch! Bitch!"

 

...where 95% of whining is done by one person.

 

Well to be fair, regardless of opinion on the matter, if you didn't back it on KS, you shouldn't be surprised you can't get the KS Backer acheev.