I'm not enjoying this game

[nipsen]

The gameplay is just awful,

I agree on the fact that in this kind of games the combat is not the focus point, but I feel like I'm playing Planescape Torment without the option of avoiding combat, it's just a nightmare and considering how interested I find myself in the story I don't even feel like bearing with it to see how it develops.

Knowing they developed this system just for this game boggles my mind, how the hell did even remotely think this mess was good I'll never understand.

 

That is a good point. But the reason for it is that initially, the battles would be short and have, say, two moves and one correction or response to an enemy move. You would find the enemy weakness and the battle would be over. If not, you would take damage. Any major fights would last longer, but the mobs underway would have a weakness, and you'd push through it quickly once you learned that weakness. It created a flow that made trekking fun and small encounters strategic, without being cumbersome.

 

Unfortunately, people who Obsidian listens to insisted on behalf of every backer that they would rather want a more linear potion-chugging system that favored their specific chosen style of play. Things such as "true to the IE games, as promised by the Kickstarter slogan" was mentioned, over and over again. And that's what Obsidian ended up choosing. A linear system that makes battles boring, and of course also makes any area with narrative in between the combat become split up in a way that wasn't there originally.

 

Because that, according to people, was what the Kickstarter folks wanted.

[Monte Carlo]

Well PoE is great game but it's main problem is trying to merge  BG, IWD and P:T in one game.

 

And it doesn't have as  great story and world as P:T

It doesn't have as great NPC's as BG

And (as far as I'm reading forums) doesn't have as demanding combat as IWD (I don't know I'm not really combat guy)

 

And as far as I'm more fan of PS:T than BG series I feel a bit disapointed, but I still can appreciate PoE as one of the best RPG ever (still nowehere near my great trinity: Torment, KotOR 2 and Witcher 1).

 

This is a very fair point. It's Planescape without the depth and Baldur's Gate without the campy, munchkin fun.

 

It's sort of in the middle and not the better for it.

[Chillybean]

i think its awesome.. haven't had this much fun in a game since vanilla world of warcraft.

[KirsiF]

I'm absolutely loving and enjoying this game.

 

This is the first isometric, "old-style" RPG I have really played, so I can't claim to be any sort of serious veteran (I'm very casual and periodic in my gaming). But I've played RPGs for several years now, Morrowind and Kotor were the first ones. Dragon Age:Origins has been my favourite one for some time now - the sequels were a huge letdown. I forced myself to play through DA2 once, Inquisition I was unable to even finnish. I also tried Divinity: Original Sin but there was something that made it very difficult to get into, so I quit and thought isometric games just weren't my "thing".

 

Pillars of Eternity has totally changed my opinion though. Not once have I missed flashy graphics or full voice-overs. I don't get over-whelmed, the learning curve has been very smooth. I'm playing on hard right now and the challenge seems just right. The story felt rich and intriguing right from the beginning. It's true that the companions aren't as "showy" as they have been in BioWare RPGs. Someone could certainly think they are bland because of that, but to me they feel very real and pleasantly down-to-earth, like real people tend to be. The story might not be the most original, but then again, it compares just fine to every other RPG I have played before. Almost all stories in the world have been told, one way or the other. What matters to me is the atmosphere and immersion.

 

I don't really know why I wrote this post. This is just the opinion of a one almost middle-aged lady, who has learned to love RPGs relatively late in her life. Overall Pillars of Eternity just feels very right to me - like it has a soul. I know that's not very analytical or technical, but it's just the thing I have felt lacking in most games I have tried during these last couple of years. I was becoming very cynical and depressed about games overall, so playing this one has been like a breath of fresh air. Maybe I will even get the confidence to try Baldur's Gate series after this very positive experience.

[sp3cw4r]

I'm absolutely loving and enjoying this game.

 

This is the first isometric, "old-style" RPG I have really played, so I can't claim to be any sort of serious veteran (I'm very casual and periodic in my gaming). But I've played RPGs for several years now, Morrowind and Kotor were the first ones. Dragon Age:Origins has been my favourite one for some time now - the sequels were a huge letdown. I forced myself to play through DA2 once, Inquisition I was unable to even finnish. I also tried Divinity: Original Sin but there was something that made it very difficult to get into, so I quit and thought isometric games just weren't my "thing".

 

Pillars of Eternity has totally changed my opinion though. Not once have I missed flashy graphics or full voice-overs. I don't get over-whelmed, the learning curve has been very smooth. I'm playing on hard right now and the challenge seems just right. The story felt rich and intriguing right from the beginning. It's true that the companions aren't as "showy" as they have been in BioWare RPGs. Someone could certainly think they are bland because of that, but to me they feel very real and pleasantly down-to-earth, like real people tend to be. The story might not be the most original, but then again, it compares just fine to every other RPG I have played before. Almost all stories in the world have been told, one way or the other. What matters to me is the atmosphere and immersion.

 

I don't really know why I wrote this post. This is just the opinion of a one almost middle-aged lady, who has learned to love RPGs relatively late in her life. Overall Pillars of Eternity just feels very right to me - like it has a soul. I know that's not very analytical or technical, but it's just the thing I have felt lacking in most games I have tried during these last couple of years. I was becoming very cynical and depressed about games overall, so playing this one has been like a breath of fresh air. Maybe I will even get the confidence to try Baldur's Gate series after this very positive experience.

 

Well said and I agree on all points, except for the fact that I enjoyed all the DA games, even the 2nd one. Love what you said about the game feeling like it has a soul of it's own, I feel it too. 

[Quantics]

Also I'm finding the lore excellent in this game (much superior to BG if you really want to hear me say it). 

 

It's one of the main things that make me hopeful for the sequel. The world is great, therefore it will be much easier to put great things in it. 

[Svirfneblin]

 

 

Yes, my favorite game altough remains Arcanum.

The thing is that I was expecting "more of the same", baldur's gate, arcanum, iwd, Ps:T, fallout all had their flaws but in the end were pretty solid games with character that stood out from everything else. 

What I got instead is exactly what we've been getting from the rest of the videogames industry: Better graphics with less quality.

 

 

Guess this is a matter of opinion then. Personally I seem to remember the characters in BG1 being pretty barebone, BG2 expanded this some but then most of that character development was romance content. The probably most fondly remembered and memorable character didn't even have much of a storyline or quests, Minsc was just funny/awesome one liners.

 

 

I feel that if Minsc were a character in a modern RPG, people would complain about how all he does is make dumb one liners, no depth, very little character development and represents a decline in writing quality of RPGs today etc. The BG2 (and the even more threadbare BG1 characters) get "passes" from a lot of people due to the age of the game and the age of the gamers who played it.

 

There would also definitely be complaints such as "why should my PC give a **** about Gorion, we had like 5 minutes and half a conversation with him before he died".

Edited April 8, 2015 by Svirfneblin

[DIIscIIple]

I really think that the combat is much improved from BG and BG2.  The Sarevok fight was the only difficulty that I ever had in those at normal levels, and I never did anything but run at fools.  So I cheated and summoned 8 Drizzts.  So what.  NWN and NWN2 and KOTOR and KOTOR2 were all even easier. 

 

Have you people just forgotten how easy those were, at least at normal levels?  Everyone's complaining about these systems but they're vastly improved.

[PrimeJunta]

@nipsen what are you talking about? The encounters are very short and sharp, a few boss battles aside. I've only chugged the occasional potion in a Trial of Iron run when I wanted to be extra sure of not losing, and never chugged more than one in a fight. Have you even played this?

[nipsen]

@nipsen what are you talking about? The encounters are very short and sharp, a few boss battles aside. I've only chugged the occasional potion in a Trial of Iron run when I wanted to be extra sure of not losing, and never chugged more than one in a fight. Have you even played this?

Mm. You see, I always just run my mouth and imagine every thought I say is founded on evidence and is equal to fact for the simple reason that I'm saying it -- just like people expect around here!

 

No, I have played the game. And what strikes me is that instead of using abilities and spells as a strategic breaker of some sort. To buff a particular stat, to stop an advance, or to debuff a particular defense for a high defense mob -- like we saw early in the beta -- I keep having to spam my abilities and spells, over and over again. Before resting after approximately the same number of battles. Whether I spend my spells and avoid damage, or if I save my spells and take more damage. It's about the same.

 

Whereas in the first draft, that absolutely no one in the entire world liked (as we all know is fact and decided), you saved your spells and abilities for when you were in trouble, and couldn't realistically expect placement and normal defense to win. Which sometimes would be often, for example in the deep dungeon treks. But less common on the open maps. What I'm saying is that you cast the spell for a purpose, to get that one dangerous mob out of the way, etc. Instead of expending spells and abilities equally depending on number of mobs you're getting rid of.

 

So now, just like in BG, and so on, when you run out of spells and potions, you're basically going to reload or rest. Otherwise, you're going to win easily. But you take damage anyway, and have no real chance of avoiding that. And there's only so many healing spells and potions to spend - and you will spend them or rest. There's no "reward" for being smart here, there's just micromanaging bs. It could just as well have been a button that you press to make something go "ping".

 

And that removes the tension. The feeling of having to be careful and not overextend yourself, in case you're running into trouble is gone, and is replaced with: "when should I use my potions". "Should I buff five times, or just rest, like I have to anyway after this battle?". "Should I risk having to reload?". And it also makes the dialogue in the events something you spend the least time on, because they're not significant any more. The main challenge is not getting railed by some combination of instant uninterruptable abilities, or eventually getting your health points worn down. Since the mobs are going to hit you and cause direct health damage, even if you do the attack "perfectly". You know that on beforehand - so there's no strategy involved. You know you're going to survive pretty much any battle, but you also know on beforehand that you can't scrounge by through the dungeon without (god's help me) "prebuffing", and employing your now extremely often used combo of spells and abilities, that any half-decent mage would have made into a new spell to save time.

 

It's the result of that design. When I'm not reading the story, which is good, I'm imagining that I'm being forced to watch a "let's play" of someone running through Baldur's Gate 2 with only daggers and healing spells allowed. And where I have to pause the video to read what the characters are saying. I'm glad you're all excited about it, but to me it's painfully tedious.

 

And the point is that I don't have a choice if I want to play the game. If I want to get through the story here, I have to play this game in a way that a few very annoying people decided on behalf of the rest of us. You could still have played through the entire game with only Barbarian characters wearing only tutus for armor, while setting your own allowance for pocket copper money. And it would - for all we know - have been glorious. You could have posted youtube videos of it for the enjoyment of other tutu-wearing Barbarian fans, and it would have earned you money, even. It could have propelled you into pwedipidipian stardom.

 

And then I could just have ignored all of it and just played the game in peace. But oh no, the game had to be normalized to utter knee-biting boredom for the rest of us as well. It had to be done, or else sales would suffer! And fans would be angry!

 

Idiots.

[AeonQuasar]

I actually see your points nipsen. The modern version playing style is more way-to-easy and fast fased than the Old-School RPG players might like. but it's a good and fresh start in years of sadness in Isometric gaming. Hopefully this game will expand into more games and suggestion of bad and good aspects of the game might help them think more like Black Isle did. Im sure the DLC will make this game shine. Im allready looking forward to Pillars of Eternity 2 where they can learn from their mistakes. Continue the story for high level spells and where tactical combat is needed to continue.

 

But for now, im just enjoying a great isometric game even with minor mising details and frustrating bugs. 

[Volourn]

"I agree on the fact that in this kind of games the combat is not the focus point,"

 

\Uh. Combat is one of if not the main focus point. And, nothing wrong with that either.

[Blucher]

I'm enjoying the game so far, but the combat seems a little underwhelming.  However, I haven't quite played enough to really give it a fair shake.

 

(Disclaimer: I'm one of those people who really, really liked the AD&D(2) rules, so... there is that.)

[Wintersong]

When you have classes and all those fancy skills, talents and such... yeah, combat better be a big focus or you have been wasting in those. I do like this combat system, barely ever use any potion, never food (yet?).

 

The story part? I like it too and it has been a very long while since I have been staring at some conversation screen trying to decide what to choose because of story consequences (inmediate ones at least as with almost 90 hours, I haven't finished the game yet).

 

TO each his own and I'm having fun with this game. If only I could manage to figure out how to make a wizard I'd like to play... becuse as in IE games, I don't like wizards. XD

[vilverin]

 

I think PoE's at a disadvantage here because backers were for the most part teenagers when the BG series came out. We're all 15 years older now, and our expectations have grown with us.

 

 

That is an extremely good point, I think most people underestimate this factor...

[kalel78]

i can certainly understand the frustration of the combat... though FOR ME, the combat is fine with the exception of a few bugs interrupting my enjoyment..

 

the combat can be hard, the positioning can be a pain.. and IMO, some of the boss fights that ive done so far are done in rooms that are very cramped and set you up for lots of unnecessary AOE damage.  overall though.. i DO enjoy the combat in SPITE of the frustrations.. and the satisfaction of winning a tough fight is pretty great   havent really had that in a while.

 

the story so far for me has been great.. lots of hard choices to make, and i really enjoy how the dialogue system works.  we finally have another game where you have to consider other options besides combat stats. 

 

but if you aren't digging the story and are frustrated by the combat.. yeah, i can see why you might not be enjoying the game.  to each there own i say

[Zahar]

I understand it's not for everyone, but I can say I'm loving the game. I don't agree with EVERY choice, of course - even some stats and mechanics feel a bit awkward to me - but the whole package has incredible value. And about the story and writting, I gottta disagree, it's better than almost any game I played in the last 10 years, the possible exception being Dishonored. 

[Nanakamado]

 

Well PoE is great game but it's main problem is trying to merge  BG, IWD and P:T in one game.

 

This is not a problem, this is a feature. It was promised right from the start of the Kickstarter campaign. So they promised. And so they delivered.

 

And it doesn't have as  great story and world as P:T

It doesn't have as great NPC's as BG

And (as far as I'm reading forums) doesn't have as demanding combat as IWD (I don't know I'm not really combat guy)

 

1. Josh said that this will be a mundane fantasy: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-10-pillars-of-eternity-interview-off-cuts

2. This is a matter of taste, in both cases (BG and PoE)

3. Not a combat guy either...

 

Pozdrowienia.

 

 

 

1. I know that he said that. I like this world, it just lacks  depth (as Monte Carlo sumarized)

[Ted Striker]

I want to punch a baby.

[popandopalo]

Combat have the one drawback for me. The calculation of probabilities skewed toward hitting too match. May be need to make more "missed"? Not 1-15 but 1-50? Or additional dice must be not 100 but 75(1-25 miss/26-50 light hit/51-75 standart hit/75+crit)? Battle will be longer and more abilities will be useable.

[cirdanx]

I just don't like it,

My 2 cents.

You don´t like the game? Fine. Thats your opinion, but lets take a closer look:

 

"the characters I encountered so far are boring and the story is so bland and prevedible.

I can't even bring myself to play another sidequest."

 

Thats your opinion and makes me think you are not far into the game...however, you could be far in the game and then..well sucks for you sorry to hear that.

 

"The gameplay is just awful,"

Just because you don´t like it doesn´t make it awful....

 

"I agree on the fact that in this kind of games the combat is not the focus point, but I feel like I'm playing Planescape Torment without the option of avoiding combat, it's just a nightmare and considering how interested I find myself in the story I don't even feel like bearing with it to see how it develops."

Wrong. Every game in this style, especially the BG series had a strong focus on combat, that is one of the reasons this games became popular back then, strategic combat. You can avoid a lot of combat, considering you invested in the right stats, just like the old games. You just said the story is "bland and prevedible" now you are suddenly interested?

 

"I still have the hero edition for steam, if anybody is interested in it hit me up with a PM.

I'll probably put the retail collectors edition on ebay as soon as I get it, let me know if you're interested."

Well thats your right to do

[nipsen]

I actually see your points nipsen. The modern version playing style is more way-to-easy and fast fased than the Old-School RPG players might like. but it's a good and fresh start in years of sadness in Isometric gaming. 

I suppose I think that's just another lazy narrative. It's perfectly possible to enjoy BG2 without glorifying the mechanics. It's a good attempt at making the adventure day work in a computer game, and it never tries to recreate the mechanics in a pen and paper setting. It shouldn't either, unless you wanted to create a very cumbersome game where very little happens. But all in all, BG2 is a fairly quick and dirty approach to convert d&d conventions to a video-game.

 

Still, it works to tell a story and let people play with strategic party mechanics in a game. But it is a genre on it's own - Adventure Role-playing Games. It's like a d&d spinoff.

 

I'm just saying that when PoE ended up copying BG2 mechanics, this isn't an attempt to recreate original d&d rules, and sticking as close as possible to some imagined role-playing game ideal "old time" players have. It's just copying the BG2 mechanics. With all the weaknesses that system has.

 

For example, potion and healing spell inflation is a result of having more engagements each "adventuring day" compared to in a pnp setting. So copying potion inflation into PoE for the sake of it shouldn't make much sense. Then you're just copying a quick and easy way to use the d&d mechanics for the sake of it.

 

And what makes that so annoying is that Obsidian actually presented a better alternative. Made by people who understand GMing. Which was then shot down by people who wanted a BG2 clone.

 

Basically, we keep hearing that people imagine that BG2 is some sort of "traditional" design. But it's not - it's a very simplified ruleset based on d&d, designed to drive a narrative in a computer game. It's not actually created from scratch to get a computer game to make sense. That's what people forget - that the d&d license had requirements. And that this was the source of many of the not entirely grand solutions.

 

 

 

 

I think PoE's at a disadvantage here because backers were for the most part teenagers when the BG series came out. We're all 15 years older now, and our expectations have grown with us.

 

 

That is an extremely good point, I think most people underestimate this factor...

 

Then again - BG2 still is playable without making the actual gameplay bore you to tears. IWD2 as well stretches the ruleset a lot to allow the game to be paced in a certain way. Or the game is put together to drive a narrative, not to occupy you with repetitive stuff to do between the dialogue scripts. PoE sadly copies certain specifics of the mechanics in those games, instead of copying the idea that you create something for the purpose of making the game flow.

 

So to say the expectations are higher is just generalising too much, for the sake of ending up with a simple explanation. For example, my expectations for the mechanics were extremely low, coming from BG2 - until I saw the first draft in the PoE beta. Where they had actually made some incredibly good suggestions on how to make a pen and paper game into a video-game. Much better ones than what they had in BG2.

[Fredward]

The game has been kinda 'meh' for me too. To me it's bland, it has no stand out characteristics. If the goal was to create a game that is exceptionally IE like then it succeeded with flying colours. If the primary goal was to create a great game? Eh. In my eyes that failed.

 

So far I've not liked D:OS, haven't given Wasteland 2 much time and POE was a disappointment. I'm really hoping TTON is the ****.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Fredward

[PrimeJunta]

Maybe you just don't like games?

[Fredward]

Maybe you just don't like games?

 

Seems reasonable.