Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Japanese games are horrible... If Japanese games are horrible how would you classify the hipster pretentious turds we see on the indie market? Why? Why should that possibly be a thing? I have never heard one single legitimate reason that my representation of ones and zero's shouldn't destroy that representation of ones and zeroes, particularly not because the program interprets that collection of ones and zeroes in some way that it visually resembles a human child. That makes no ****ing sense. Because it's ageist? I dunno it's late in this side of the world Edited April 4, 2015 by Bayzent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takamorisan Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... If Japanese games are horrible how would you classify the hipster pretentious turds we see on the indie market? ~~Art~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirigible Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I would agree with you completely if she were doing game reviews. The trope videos, as I understand them, are trying to identify recurring patterns over a large number of games. Similarly, how can someone say that women are mistreated in games if they're not playing the games they're upset about? What makes you think she is upset? She is doing cultural criticism - looking at games to find patterns and pointing them out. If anything, it would be better to hire people who had never seen the games to objectively look for examples of the tropes: 1. Provide a standard to identify the various tropes that a disinterested person could follow to identify examples of the tropes 2. Get a bunch of people to count the tropes in various games and cross check that different annotators give the same answers by having several people do the annotations 3. Update the annotator guidelines if the people don't agree and redo the annotations with new people when necessary 4. Crunch the numbers That would give a clearer signal than somebody who plays the games and is emotionally invested in them. It would make a good kickstarter project for someone wanting to uncover the truth about these tropes whatever that truth turns out to be. Someone who only has a shallow knowledge of video games can only provide a shallow analysis of video games. Which is exactly what Anita is doing. And to suggest that we judge the merit of work based on a checklist of tropes is, frankly, insulting and stupid. I wouldn't have a problem with Anita or her supporters if they presented Tropes Vs as an ultimately inconsequential surface-level skimming of common video game tropes (a bit like how TVTropes presents itself). But they don't. They present it as a thought-provoking, hard-hitting look into the heart of video game culture. And in that respect it is an utter sham. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averagedog Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 the SJZ put his twitter account under protection mode when predictably he couldn't handle all the people "fighting back." This person may have deleted the twitter posts in an effort to continue to spread misinformation. If however you want proof that such a discussion or a tweet took place, all you need to do is look at Josh Sawyer's twitter post that has the person linked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ~~Art~~ Then I'm afraid you'll be using words without knowing their meaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namutree Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... Some are. Some are awesome. "Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking. I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takamorisan Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ~~Art~~ Then I'm afraid you'll be using words without knowing their meaning I'm being sarcastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 ..... My problem with the FF videos (and I'm a woman saying this) is that she has openly admitted that she hasn't played all of the games she reviews. I would agree with you completely if she were doing game reviews. The trope videos, as I understand them, are trying to identify recurring patterns over a large number of games. Similarly, how can someone say that women are mistreated in games if they're not playing the games they're upset about? What makes you think she is upset? She is doing cultural criticism - looking at games to find patterns and pointing them out. If anything, it would be better to hire people who had never seen the games to objectively look for examples of the tropes: 1. Provide a standard to identify the various tropes that a disinterested person could follow to identify examples of the tropes 2. Get a bunch of people to count the tropes in various games and cross check that different annotators give the same answers by having several people do the annotations 3. Update the annotator guidelines if the people don't agree and redo the annotations with new people when necessary 4. Crunch the numbers That would give a clearer signal than somebody who plays the games and is emotionally invested in them. It would make a good kickstarter project for someone wanting to uncover the truth about these tropes whatever that truth turns out to be. Sorry man, but if you wanna critique something like games you have to actually play it or you will end up making mistakes like saying that Hitman series is about murdering women and hiding then in dumpsters, instead of making the least aggressive approach and achieve the murder like a professional Hitman. Other observation is, of the 16 targets only 4 are women. Killing the narrative that the games is violence against women.(Blood Money) Yeah exactly...the problem is that her "research" is backwards. She assumes that her tropes are are a systemic problem in gaming, then she goes and looks at a bunch of Lets Play videos to find clips that support her conclusion. This is NOT proper research. You can't assume the conclusion before you even start lol! If it was honest research, she would have a hypothesis that some trope is prevalent through gaming, then should would do some kind of statistical analysis to see how prevalent it is. For example, a good metric may be something like: "Of all best selling games in 2014, only 10% of them allow you to play a female character." That fact is made up, but you see what I mean. Without statistical analysis, cherry picking scenes to make it "seem" like you are right is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarack21 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... Some are. Some are awesome. And then there's Rapelay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSocialKnight Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Edited April 4, 2015 by RedSocialKnight 1 DID YOU KNOW: *Missing String* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywyll Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 This is why I say removing things is a slippery slope, now they're demanding something else gets removed. Where does it end? Exactly. That's why you mustn't budge at first. If you do, well, then you're gonna get fuc*** by just about every internet demographic out there. Devs need to follow Daniel Vavra's example and just refuse to change anything. They've given up on him and his game. I mean I'm sure they'll give him hell again when the game gets released, but it'll blow over. I think the best devs to follow would be these guys, mainly Kamiya (I could post several images showing why I love this guy). George Kamitani is fine too. Japanese games are horrible... Some are, some arent. If you think they are as a whole, you either have horrible taste or bad luck picking them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackjack Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Didn't Richard Garriot do this back in the 80s? It's not exactly a new concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarack21 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) In other news, Tomonobu is a douche. Like, seriously--he makes games to troll people. He's not interested in art, he just wants you to scream and curse while breaking your controller. It makes him feel good to "beat" the players. I've ran with DM's like that; **** him. Edited April 4, 2015 by Katarack21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadrithos Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 the SJZ put his twitter account under protection mode when predictably he couldn't handle all the people "fighting back." This person may have deleted the twitter posts in an effort to continue to spread misinformation. If however you want proof that such a discussion or a tweet took place, all you need to do is look at Josh Sawyer's twitter post that has the person linked to. link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) ~~Art~~ Then I'm afraid you'll be using words without knowing their meaning I'm being sarcastic I assumed as much And then there's Rapelay. That fits into the horrible category. Had you said Sengoku Rance on the other hand... Edited April 4, 2015 by Bayzent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywyll Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... Some are. Some are awesome. And then there's Rapelay. Once it gets Occulus RIft support you and I both know it will win GoTY every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creslin321 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... Some are. Some are awesome. And then there's Rapelay. Hehe I've never played that game, never going to play that game lol. That said, you got me curious on what the actual rape rate was in Japan, because it seems like they have a higher acceptance of rape in their media than we American do. Interestingly enough, the rape rate in Japan is 1 per every 100K people, while in the US, it's 27.3 for every 100K people. So despite having much more rape portrayed in their media, Japan has 27 times less rapes than the US does. Strike one against rape culture theory I guess lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Hehe I've never played that game, never going to play that game lol. That said, you got me curious on what the actual rape rate was in Japan, because it seems like they have a higher acceptance of rape in their media than we American do. Interestingly enough, the rape rate in Japan is 1 per every 100K people, while in the US, it's 27.3 for every 100K people. So despite having much more rape portrayed in their media, Japan has 27 times less rapes than the US does. Strike one against rape culture theory I guess lol. You are comparing a society where pretty much any kind of fetish we know, and a lot we do not, is legalized and can be purchased for the propper prize, and another where even talking about Regulating Prostitution creates uproar in some States...from BOTH sides of the political spectrum... Next time try not to compare sex statistics to a country descended from Puritan Fundamentalists, please... Edited April 4, 2015 by Bayzent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarack21 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... Some are. Some are awesome. And then there's Rapelay. Hehe I've never played that game, never going to play that game lol. That said, you got me curious on what the actual rape rate was in Japan, because it seems like they have a higher acceptance of rape in their media than we American do. Interestingly enough, the rape rate in Japan is 1 per every 100K people, while in the US, it's 27.3 for every 100K people. So despite having much more rape portrayed in their media, Japan has 27 times less rapes than the US does. Strike one against rape culture theory I guess lol. Rape is also vastly underreported in Japan, even compared to America, and then there's "eve teasing", which is basically public sexual molestation (which basically doesn't happen here, at least not anywhere to the same extent). The cultures are different and can't be compared directly, but I think there is something to the idea that Japan has outlets for those desires and behaviors which we just haven't allowed in our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywyll Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Japanese games are horrible... Some are. Some are awesome. And then there's Rapelay. Hehe I've never played that game, never going to play that game lol. That said, you got me curious on what the actual rape rate was in Japan, because it seems like they have a higher acceptance of rape in their media than we American do. Interestingly enough, the rape rate in Japan is 1 per every 100K people, while in the US, it's 27.3 for every 100K people. So despite having much more rape portrayed in their media, Japan has 27 times less rapes than the US does. Strike one against rape culture theory I guess lol. The Japanese are probably not raping so much because they are inside fapping to porn. Kinda like how violent videogames keep people inside, preventing them from committing violent actions outside. I havent actually played rapelay, but if it gives people with strange fetishes an outlet and keeps them indoors, I dont have a problem with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) If someone objected to bikini armor for the ladies and Obsidian changed it, I'm glad. I hate that crap. It makes no sense whatsoever on top of the sexist concerns many have.Bikini Armor? No. It wasn't even all that. OK, Like, maybe 2 weeks into the kickstarter they released concept art for one of the potential companion NPCs. This one: And then, for 24 straight hours, because of that completely harmless picture, Hell broke loose. People whined. And the whines were about everything the human mind could possibly dream up about that one little picture. Sexual exploitation of Women; The impracticality of form-fitting armor; Obsidian trying to sell a kickstarter with sex! Even the Promancers came out of the woodwork and questioned the logic behind creating such 'suggestive' NPCs in a game that won't have romances. It was 24 hours of Nuts. And then, one day later, because of the irrational noisy minority, they changed the picture, and we got this: For some reason I still haven't figured out, this quieted everyone down, and for that alone I was happy. But again, that doesn't change the *thing*, here. On demand art isn't friggin Art. Edited April 4, 2015 by Stun 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirigible Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 In order to be raping people, they would have to be having sex with each other. Have you SEEN their birth rates?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 This reminds me of all the "killable children" mods that were made for various older rpg games from way back, not to mention the invisible ones in Fallout. But get really really annoyed by people who are easily offended, they are idiots and should spend the rest of their lives in a dark room with no contact with the outside world in order to not get offended anymore, everyone will be better off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarack21 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) That was a legit complaint. ****ing boob-shaped breast plates are retarded; whoever did that first concept art deserves to be shamed. Not for sexism, just for being an idiot. Edited April 4, 2015 by Katarack21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayzent Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 In order to be raping people, they would have to be having sex with each other. Have you SEEN their birth rates?? You are seriously equating Birth rates with having sex? Are you Roman Catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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