Katarack21 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I'm schizophrenic. I have very high odds of dying and early death due to suicide...or being murdered by a cop.There's a lot of jokes in PoE about hearing voices and such. Do I find it offensive? Yes. Do I bitch and whine about being discriminated against because of some jokes in a video game?Not so much. 4
deuxhero Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women. Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that? Then start by being angry at Eric: the man who calls for all men, logically including those like him, to be murdered! Edited April 3, 2015 by deuxhero Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror.
ChipMHazard Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 We will be addressing this in a backer update. We did not remove the backer's memorial. It is now in Woodend Plains (adding and removing entries can cause the memorials to change locations). We worked in concert with the backer on the issue. Again, when the update goes out you will have a full explanation of the situation. Just make sure it's a damn good one and that it doesn't imply having given into peer pressure sparked by a single disgruntled individual. 1
Arouet Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Okay, so now it's time for me to boycott Obsidian and warn everyone about their practises for foreseeable future. I just can't stand this industry succumbing to outrage and losing it's artistic integrity. What would it take to stop the boycott? Do a dozen transwomen have to be killed in a game, so that Obsidian can show they're serious about not being "censored"?
Jasta11 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Hopefully this puts this silly ''controversy'' to rest. Oh, who am I kidding.
Osvir Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I have immense respect for this backer, gj. Regardless if it had stayed or if it got changed (as it did), I'm glad that it wasn't removed or deleted. That would've been silly.I did the mistake of looking up the Icequeen's twitter and I just shook my head. Ignorance truly is bliss *shrug* whatever, she's happy, I'm happy, the backer is probably happy and satisfied. Obsidian might be laughing nervously though
Jarrakul Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Yes, how dare the devs cave to the demands of their fans after committing to serve the interests of... their... fans...Waitaminute...At the end of the day, their job is to take backer/fan feedback and do what they think is best to make the best game they can. That's all they did here. I, for one, am glad they made the right decision, because making their backers/fans feel welcomed is important, and I'm sorry to all of you who disagree with it. But this? This isn't what censorship looks like, and calling it censorship is an insult to everyone who actually has to live with censorship.
smudboy Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Given the tone of Josh Sawyer's previous response on Twitter ("I'll talk to our producers about it. it's hard to catch everything"), I don't think it's fair to say that anyone "caved" to anything.Someone spends $500 to get the opportunity to make whatever they like in an epitaph, and one misguided twitter follower (are they even a backer?) whines about it? To even bring this to attention? That's called caving. Cant EDIT: Changed out a word. It's a long standing practice in these forums not to give way to name calling. Substitute more or less conveys the same idea. 2
Twilights_Bard Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I'm disappointed. I'm severely disappointed that the Bigotted Church of the Perpetually Offended was allowed to push their bigotted mindset and get away with bullying people yet again. Getting angry though isn't going to solve anything though. I'm amused by it all, I'm amused by the second joke that pretty much laughs at the people who are praising the removal of the joke that they didn't even get because they were putting their own transphobic views and desperately trying to hide them with the veil being offended. As far as what I'm going to do with my money and buying more titles, well that will be decided when we get our explination. But please don't wait too long, since the thing that does bother me the most is that you guys should have given us this explination when the patch was written. I find it to be poor form that it wasn't done.
PrimeJunta Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 You can already feed an orphan to a gûl. Does that count? I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
YourVoiceisAmbrosia Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Jesus christ people, read the thread. They didn't remove the backer entry. 1
deuxhero Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW. Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks. Which is actually made worse by the current "treatment" so why don't you start by complaining that's the standard? Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror.
Maviarab Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Unreal...I thought RPG players and Obsidian fans were supposed to be mature...not be a bunch of whiny self-entitled 12 year olds. I'm with TheisEjsing...I'm outta here...just a pointless exercise hanging around this place now. 3
Flashburn Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Would would really be amazing would be if all the armchair activists here could direct all of the "courage" they've displayed today to a real issue, like the **** that goes down routinely in Washington. The world would really be a better place if this fire showed up when it actually mattered. That would be great if it wasn't a fallacy of relative privation. How can we hope to stop the corruption in Washington if we can't even sort out videogames, hm?
Ekaros Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I wonder if there is someone with 500$ reward who is up to asking to change theirs to something similar to original. Or Quote of that. 2
Esser-Z Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women. Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that? Then start by being angry at Eric: the man who calls for all men, logically including those like him, to be murdered! I have no idea who Eric is, but the woman who first brought up this whole thing has indeed joked with "Kill all men." Very clearly joked. Are you seriously using that as an attack? Because that's... pretty darn hilarious, actually. It's like when I got called a eugenicist for doing a joke bit pretending to be an old-timey scientist. For someone so adamantly defending an offensive piece of humor, you really should pay more attention to what is and isn't serious!
Moonlight Butterfly Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) I have I'm schizophrenic. I have very high odds of dying and early death due to suicide...or being murdered by a cop.There's a lot of jokes in PoE about hearing voices and such. Do I find it offensive? Yes. Do I bitch and whine about being discriminated against because of some jokes in a video game?Not so much. If someone did though I'd be completely understanding about it. It's your decision whether to complain about it as it was hers. I doubt she expected it to go so far as it did. Edited April 3, 2015 by Moonlight Butterfly
distant_worlds Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women. Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that? That interpretation is absurd. The limerick does not even suggest that the individual is trans. The situation could easily have come about due to intoxication. The limerick specifically takes the opposite route, thus subverting any murderous actions. Even if your absurd interpretation was taken, have you never heard of gallows humor? This entire situation smacks of someone specifically looking for things to get offended at to incite another twitter mob. 6
Vasid Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women. Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that? So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW. Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks. IN NO WAY WAS THE JOKE IN THE GAME ABOUT TRANS GENDER WOMEN! THE JOKE WAS ABOUT A MAN GETTING SO DRUNK HE SLEPT WITH ANOTHER MAN! TRANSGENDER BULL**** WAS NEVER A PART OF THIS! HOLY **** LEARN TO READ!! 1
Verenti Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I'm outraged. I have no words to eloquently express this betrayal of the very people who made this game a reality. They had plenty of time to decide it wasn't worth publishing, but that's what the backer was "sold". The chance to put text of their choosing into the game. It got through screening and in post release, a guy freaking out because he slept with a man (with comic exaggeration) is too much? Shame, Obsidian, Shame. This is disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. You have a duty to your backers, and if you didn't want people putting in their own text, you shouldn't have used it as a tool to leverage $500 out of them. Make this right!
Esser-Z Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 The thing a lot of you are missing is that it's a joke about a situation that often ends, not in suicide, but in a woman being murdered. And often times, at least in America, the killer getting away with it. There's serious bigotry involved with the situation, including the very idea that transwomen are men trying to trick you instead of, y'know, women. Now, the backer probably didn't intend any of that. But that doesn't change the connotations of the joke. It added nothing to the game, makes light of deadly bigotry, and is insulting to a marginalized group. Why defend that? So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW. Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks. IN NO WAY WAS THE JOKE IN THE GAME ABOUT TRANS GENDER WOMEN! THE JOKE WAS ABOUT A MAN GETTING SO DRUNK HE SLEPT WITH ANOTHER MAN! TRANSGENDER BULL**** WAS NEVER A PART OF THIS! HOLY **** LEARN TO READ!! So gay sex is something to kill yourself over? That doesn't sound very good either, mate. 1
Cantousent Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I'll approve posts that don't attack members or break other forum rules, but I will lock new threads or merge them into one thread for this subject. Let's try not to clutter the forum with multiple threads on the same subject. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Esser-Z Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Jokes can still hurt! Very badly! So, it's wrong to be outraged about casual bigotry, but it's okay to outraged about people being offended? GOOD TO KNOW. Transgender individual face constant criticism and attacks for just trying to be themselves. Furthermore, it's medical fact that gender dysphoria is often accompanied by clinical depression. Posters here want to make things worse for already suffering people...why, exactly? Because they find it funny? Punch up, not down, folks. Which is actually made worse by the current "treatment" so why don't you start by complaining that's the standard? Hmm. I read your link. It specifically stated that HRT and surgery does treat dysphoria, but that additional care is recommended afterwards. I can't imagine why that might be. Surely there's no connection to people willfully misgendering and the like... But thanks for misrepresenting the study!
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