Controversial Limerick Discussion

[Mungri]

Goddammit, mods.

 

I made this thread, and no matter what a handful of posters may have said, it is NOT about the "controversial limerick." I don't give a rat's ass that some people were offended by something in the game (though you'd think all the ABORTION in the game would rile up people more) and I do not like being misrepresented as someone who DOES.

 

So called "offensive" content can be vital and necessary in any work of media because it forces people out of their comfort zones and to reexamine their beliefs.

What's funny is that when I started posting in this thread, I was referring exactly to your OP the backer NLCs, then the SJWs start jumping at me for supporting the offensive limerick and I'm wondering WTH is that?

 

And its not even offensive.

 

Oh, and back to page 1 with this thread, yippee!!!

[Darkpriest]

 

 

Basically, stop with the nonsense and your overreacting and end this stupid discussion.

 

But it's not stupid.

 

It brings up the actually very valid point within the concept of crowdfunder-made content of what constitutes offensive content and how should the company regulate their crowdfunded content.

The point is. It is not offending. It is not a hate speech. It falls exactly into the same category where comedians make jokes about men, wives, and various ethnical/national groups...

 

I repeat it is not a hate speech. Just because a bunch of idiots overreacted it does not mean it is offending. It falls into the same.category of absurd as the ShirtGate...

[Darkpriest]

Btw just because some kind of a joke or satire comic is poor it does not give you the right to remove it. We had a situation in France where a satirical magazine was attacked over arguably provoking satirical comics. Still even that something might look stupid and provoking it does not give the right to remove it.

[khermann]

wow it sounds like there is some kind of censorship is going on? can someone elaborate on that for me?

 

Thanks guys! haha okay

[Firedorn]

So much back-story imagined from 4 lines of mock poetry, everyone gets their panties up in a bunch...it's ridiculous.

 

It's satire, it's meant to be controversial.  But only expert trolls can take it way out of context the way they did.

[Marceror]

What's funny is that when I started posting in this thread, I was referring exactly to your OP the backer NLCs, then the SJWs start jumping at me for supporting the offensive limerick and I'm wondering WTH is that?

And its not even offensive.

Oh, and back to page 1 with this thread, yippee!!!

SJWs?

 

Single Jumping Women? That can't be right.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Marceror

[Longknife]

wow it sounds like there is some kind of censorship is going on? can someone elaborate on that for me?

 

Thanks guys! haha okay

 

 

Backstory is essentially GamerGate. That's the elephant in the room really.

 

One side argues video game journalists are corrupt, the other side claims it's not about corruption and it's about gamers being sexist and racist and all the bad words in the world.

 

Over half a year down the line, calling out gamers for things perceived as sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic is at an all time high because the anti-GamerGate side views it as relevant to a bigger problem with gaming culture, while the patience the GamerGate side has for such things is at an all-time low because it's seen as overly reactionary crap that stems from tumblr's sick hugbox culture which is ultimately serving no purpose but to distract from the actual corruption in games media and distract from focusing on real issues that bring about real progress.

 

 

 

What neither side is recognizing is that such a conflict is to the detriment of developers like Obsidian. Here it's perceived as either censorship if it's removed and pandering to a crowd that doesn't respect artistic integrity and wants to legislate/dictate which plots and joke and the like are acceptable, whereas the other side views it as a living example that Obsidian themselves are transphobic or sexist or whatever should they keep it.

 

  I've repeatedly remarked in this thread (and stand by it) that I think both sides are lacking in empathy here and pouring their agendas into the issue without considering Obsidian might have a god damn opinion of their own that's unaffected by social pressure. If Obsidian is making this decision themselves (which we lack sufficient proof to prove otherwise and to prove their decision is affected by social pressure), then all of the investment into this discussion about how this is about censorship or common decency and respect is absolutely moot.

 

 

As I've said, it's just a joke. It'll offend some and make others laugh. Obsidian is in their right to determine if they wanna keep it or not. Anyone who reads further into their decision and attempts to understand their motives while lacking absolute definitive proof is merely projecting their agenda onto the matter, should realize this, and back off and leave Obsidian alone.

 

 

 

SJWs?

 

 

Social Justice Warriors, AKA people on the internet who believe they need to fight social justice and discrimination. The term has as much negative connotation as it does positive because while one side would tell you it's a good term for obvious reasons, the opposing side would accuse SJWs of being overzealous, overly-sensitive and overly-eager to fight about issues and accuse others of being intolerant and not progressive enough.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Longknife

[Hellraiser789]

Edit: LongKnife explained much better than me, so see his post.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Hellraiser789

[Bayzent]

 

You.  You grow up.

 

 You may wanna explain how piling a plethora of different identities into an "Other" category is a "lovely and adult thing"

[Korron]

Just echoing sentiments here. If you remove the one please offer an option to remove all. It's all been terrible writing mostly.

[darkpatriot]

That is what I am personally hoping the end result of all this is.  A toggle to turn off the yellow backer NPCs and backer epitaphs.  The epitaphs aren't as big a deal for me because they are much less obtrusive but all the weird looking people with weird names standing around detract from the game IMO.

Edited April 3, 2015 by darkpatriot

[unbias]

So has it been removed? I'm not at Raedric's hold yet.

[darkpatriot]

This is what it was changed to according to people who have checked the XML file.

<memorial>
<Name>Firedorn Lightbringer</Name>
<Note>"Here lies Firedorn, a bard, a poet

He was also a card, but most didn't know it

A poem he wrote in jest was misread

They asked for blood, so now he's just dead"</Note>
</memorial>

Apparently it is either no longer at the same location or has actually been removed though since twitter users are posting screenshots of it not being where it was pre-patch.

I won't lie.  I am pretty disappointed with Obsidian over this.  Apparently the backer was good natured enough to be willing to change it, but he should never have been asked to change it.

 

It is ridiculous to classify the original limerick as offensive or transphobic.

Edited April 3, 2015 by darkpatriot

[Mungri]

I am disappointed with Obsidian.

[Amentep]

Apparently it is either no longer at the same location or has actually been removed though since twitter users are posting screenshots of it not being where it was pre-patch.

According to others, its at the same memorial, but at the end of the list.

[Fenrir007]

This left me an extremely bad taste in my mouth, and here is why:

 

1- Obsidian didn't even have the guts to stand by its decision and announce it in the patch notes. They went the extra mile to hide this change from us despite the very big thread on these forums and on social media elsewhere;

 

2- They caved in to a very loud minority who are not only perpetually offended, but clearly have an agenda to push that relegates the games themselves to a footnote. The fact they partake in this # KillAllMen nonsense (which is totally a joke, guys! Seriously! Just look at their social media history - they totes don't mean it!) is icing on the cake;

 

3- They refused to listen to the gaming community. The LARGE majority of the people in the Obsidian forums were in favor of no censorship of any kind (many of which were backers, like myself). The LARGE majority on twitter were also in favor of keeping things as they are. Caving in to zealots who most likely didn't even buy your game (and probably won't even buy it now) doesn't seem like a good business decision;

 

4- They never addressed the community. They never stepped in to explain to us WHY they caved in if most were in favor of keeping it. They told us NOTHING. I feel like being spit in my face after trusting in Obsidian by pledging on their Kickstarter (which is, let me remind you all, a trust based plataform). Weren't we supposed to be part of the process? Was that just snake oil being sold, damned the backers once you got our money? 

 

5- There was already a mod made by an user to remove the sacrilegious content, so no further action was necessary! Those who needed to butcher the game could have done so on their own accord;

 

6- Other alternatives also existed, like toggles - a suggestion many would be fully behind, especially if it included an option to remove ALL backer content, which some people have been asking for. Despite this, Obsidian chose to simply impose the will of the censorious minority on everyone.

 

This really makes me rethink if I should continue supporting Obsidian from here on. If non-gamers will be empowered to simply scream to the top of their lungs based on something they misinterpreted in the first place and change MY experience, then perhaps it's better if I look elsewhere for my RPG fix.

 

You already have my money this time, but things may not be the same next time around. The internet never forgets this kind of thing.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Fenrir007

[salo]

Honestly, what's most offensive about this whole thing is that people everywhere are calling it a limerick.

[Atheosis]

I just don't click on them.  That solves the problem mostly.  This game wouldn't exist without crowdfunding so I can't get too bent out of shape about them or memorials even though neither does anything to enhance the game.

[Hellraiser789]

This is what it was changed to according to people who have checked the XML file.

 

<memorial>

<Name>Firedorn Lightbringer</Name>

<Note>"Here lies Firedorn, a bard, a poet

 

He was also a card, but most didn't know it

 

A poem he wrote in jest was misread

 

They asked for blood, so now he's just dead"</Note>

</memorial>

 

 

Gotta say, I liked the original better, but I think this new one fits pretty well too. And I find it very funny how he refers to his own poem being misinterpreted. Gotta give him props, personally. Lol. O well. They'll still get my money - I just think its a shame to force everyone to remove it. I also agree they should've at least mentioned something, I could see their reasoning and understand it. Instead, its just left up to idle speculation and that's never good. O well, it their business + game - they've got every right to pull it if they so choose.

[Chrząszczyrzewoszyczanin]

Censorship was bad when it didn't want to allow explicit anal rape:

But it's OK when some extreme leftist demanded to censor joke hurting his feelings.

 

Obsidian devs are bunch of hypocrites.

[Leandir]

I've always stayed out of the whole SJW affairs, thinking the childish tantrums of the professional victims would never affect me all that much. Obsidian - a company I've known since I was young and have felt such a high reverence for - disappointed me. I fully admit I may have put Obsidian on a pedestal and had an idealized picture of them. I fully believed they would never allow themselves to be influenced by the ravings of lunatics, to succumb to demands so ludicrous. Yet here we are.

Admittedly, the change is small but why is there a change to begin with? It doesn't matter if it's a small change or not. What matters is that something was changed because someone's feelings dictated it to be so. The game I was playing was changed by a select group of people who have nothing to do with Obsidian. It doesn't matter if I agree with their views and feelings. Obsidian decided I should care and in the course of that, content was changed for me so it'd be more in line with the views of someone I don't know nor agree with. 

This shouldn't have happened.

[UndeadRufus]

 

 

"Here lies Firedorn, a bard, a poet

He was also a card, but most didn't know it

A poem he wrote in jest was misread

They asked for blood, so now he's just dead"

 

I find it bizarre that the original poem (about an idiot adventurer accidentally having sex with a nonspecific "man" and killing himself in a comical way) is so offensive that it's worthy of outcry and censorship, yet it's apparently fine to change it to a joke implying his murder by an angry mob or suicide in capitulation thereto.

 

I suppose, since we can infer that the mob consisted of both men and women (and perhaps even transexual men and women), that it's suitably inclusive and thereby renders the death of the subject funny, in contrast to the phantasmically transphobic original?

 

[Rance]

I find it kinda hilarious that the new limerick is making fun of the people crying about the original one. Good job guys gahahaha!

Edited April 3, 2015 by Rance

[RedSocialKnight]

1- Obsidian didn't even have the guts to stand by its decision and announce it in the patch notes. They went the extra mile to hide this change from us despite the very big thread on these forums and on social media elsewhere;

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/1188370?ref=dash

 

Update #93 

 

Apr 3 2015

Patch 1.03 - Important Community Fixes

44 Comments

 

 

 Like

 28 likes

 

Update by Feargus Urquhart, CEO and Brandon Adler, Lead Producer

Backer Content

It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted. Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone.

In the case of this specific content, we checked with the backer who wrote it and asked them about changing it. We respect our backers greatly, and felt it was our duty to include them in the process. They gave us new content which we have used to replace what is in the game. To be clear, we followed the process we would have followed had this content been vetted prior to the release of the product.

We appreciate the faith you have all given us into making Pillars of Eternity the great game that it has become, and we appreciate the strength of conviction all of you bring to every conversation we have together.

Sincerely,

Feargus Urquhart, CEO 

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

[Bayzent]

 

Glad to know Obsidian can listen to such wonderfully level headed individuals and their rightful outrage for jokes.

 

At least you asked the backer, it is more than I expect from most companies, but that you still change it kinda dissapoints me...