Thanks Obsidian - Loving this game! [Merged]

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Hmph. I disagree with just about every point you mentioned.

 

The music is decent but there is far too little of it. It seems to repeat a LOT, particularly the battle music. It isn't so good that I want to listen to the same parts more than once.

 

The NPCs are incredibly bland, without any interaction or conversation. The banter between NPCs in Baldur's Gate and other games was, for me, the whole point of having them. In PoE, they feel like muscle and quest-givers, nothing more. (Edit: except for the Chanter and the Priest, to be fair.)

 

They really did not think very much about the stronghold. It feels like a tick-in-a-box: "has home-base". You get it too early and for zero effort, it has timed events that you have to rush back for, it doesn't really reward you with anything and the dungeon underneath it is tedious and bland.

 

Finally, comparing any "traditional" elves-dwarves-swords-etc RPG to Planescape Torment is laughable. Sigil and the protagonist from that game were far more original and far more interesting.

 

There are some fair criticisms to be leveled at this game. The path is quite linear and (especially early on) the character's 'soul stories' seem to be expected to do a lot of the heavy lifting for lack of more actual conversation and questing. There's also a noticeable lack of musical variation, I agree. Nevertheless both of these aspects can be explained by a lack of budget and time. Pillars of Eternity feels, (and honestly I'd expected from the outset) an exercise in 'what can we realistically do with the money and time we have?'

 

If you went in expecting something as massive and varietous as, say, Baldur's Gate: Shadows of Amn you probably set your expectations too high. Still, I'm hoping for (and I'm sure willing to pay for) some expansions that beef up the existing areas and quests as much as adding more. This game did enough that, personally, I got involved and tthought about how my character might work, abstracted my own ideas and responses, and hat's more than I can say for Icewind Dale.

 

Also, as much as I love PS:T I have to remind people the game is heavily front-loaded. As you progress options and quests seem to dwindle until a totally sparse and sudden endgame. PoE doesn't quite have the same depth and variety of content but it's definitely more evenly spread out.

[Awathorn]

Wait, people actually like Endless paths? 15 bland levels of ordinary enemies, mediocre design, no puzzles, with a decent background story and a stupid ending (THAT

boss, how original).

 

No wonder we're getting served with worse and worse games every year.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Awathorn

[WebShaman]

I like the Stronghold idea.

 

I like building it (and seeing the changes, wish there was more of this).  I like the Warden and the Bounties, the extra Adventures for those not in the Party, and the little fights.

 

Haven't got around to nosing about in the Endless Paths...sounds like a dungeon crawl, but with no XP for kills...I prefer to do the Bounties (beaucoup XP, items!).

 

Besides, I don't really have a need to spend my coin on much else - and the Bounties give thousands of coin for each one along with the XP and items.  You can basically build the Stronghold from the coin earned through Bounties.

 

Some of PoE I really like.  Some stuff is just annoying, some downright irritating, others (Wizard nerf) just teeth grinding frustration.

 

I really liked Wasteland 2.  I was able to overlook the Armor catastrophy (really wacked out) and much of the unbalanced stuff because it was just soooo good!

 

PoE I am sort of comparing to D:OS in the fun department, really.  Again, some stuff I liked, some I didn't.

[Hebruixe]

pearls before swine /sigh

[Atheosis]

Hmph. I disagree with just about every point you mentioned.

 

The music is decent but there is far too little of it. It seems to repeat a LOT, particularly the battle music. It isn't so good that I want to listen to the same parts more than once.

 

The NPCs are incredibly bland, without any interaction or conversation. The banter between NPCs in Baldur's Gate and other games was, for me, the whole point of having them. In PoE, they feel like muscle and quest-givers, nothing more. (Edit: except for the Chanter and the Priest, to be fair.)

 

They really did not think very much about the stronghold. It feels like a tick-in-a-box: "has home-base". You get it too early and for zero effort, it has timed events that you have to rush back for, it doesn't really reward you with anything and the dungeon underneath it is tedious and bland.

 

Finally, comparing any "traditional" elves-dwarves-swords-etc RPG to Planescape Torment is laughable. Sigil and the protagonist from that game were far more original and far more interesting.

 

Why post on the forums of a game you seemingly hate?   And how the hell can you have such a negative attitude towards such a great game? 

[Buzzn Frogg]

(-edited- boss, how original).

 

Thanks for the massive spoiler in the no spoiler section!

Edited April 8, 2015 by Rosbjerg
Let's not perpetuate the spoil

[Atheosis]

Wait, people actually like Endless paths? 15 bland levels of ordinary enemies, mediocre design, no puzzles, with a decent backgroung story and a stupid ending (dragon boss, how original).

 

No wonder we're getting served with worse and worse games every year.

 

Yes many of us do.  I seriously can't comprehend the negativity on these forums...

[archangel979]

Yes the game is truly awesome! Best game since BG1 and BG2! And I have not been this glued to a RPG since Mass Effect 1 and Vampire Bloodlines.

 

But there are still many places to improve if they want it to compete with BG1 and BG2. Hopefully PoE 2 is as big improvement on PoE 1 as BG2 was on BG1.

[brionkj]

Watch those spoilers! 

[Atheosis]

Yes the game is truly awesome! Best game since BG1 and BG2! And I have not been this glued to a RPG since Mass Effect 1 and Vampire Bloodlines.

 

But there are still many places to improve if they want it to compete with BG1 and BG2. Hopefully PoE 2 is as big improvement on PoE 1 as BG2 was on BG1.

 

I honestly think it's better than both BG games mainly because I think the story is vastly better, and that's the main reason I play games like these.

[Kal Adan]

The NPCs are extremely well done.  I've found four joinable NPCs so far and created an adventurer to bolster my mechanics.  The NPCs don't provide the endless prattle of the BG games, but they do interact with one another and they will interject in conversations.  It's funny to see things that I personally wanted to see, things that had been a topic of disagreement or argument with other members, that have turned out as I wanted them.

I am not seeing it. I mean, yes, NPCs interject in conversations, but there is no reaction from the other side (another NPC I talk with). It makes it feel fake for me. They "do interact with one another", but I didn't see anything bigger than how Dragon Age: Origins NPCs interacted with one another: just exchanging a couple of lines. I don't have a feeling like party is going to break up, because NPC1 hates NPC2. In fact, companions don't even pressure you to get their quests done, while In Baldur's Gate II they were reminding you of them and even taking action, by leaving your party. That gave them character. Maybe I need to play more?

 

I am much less impressed with the stronghold, even though I liked the Endless Path for tactical challenge it gave me.

 

Other than that I am going to agree game is a solid experience. Not without flaws, but done well enough to make me enjoy playing it while also reminding me of my time spent on other IE games.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Kal Adan

[Mungri]

...and now that it's quieting down around here, they won't really need as many volunteers to help out and I can instead play more Pillars of Eternity!  Hot diggity!

 

  TIEM TO RITO!!!! ┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻ 

[archangel979]

 

 

Yes the game is truly awesome! Best game since BG1 and BG2! And I have not been this glued to a RPG since Mass Effect 1 and Vampire Bloodlines.

 

But there are still many places to improve if they want it to compete with BG1 and BG2. Hopefully PoE 2 is as big improvement on PoE 1 as BG2 was on BG1.

I honestly think it's better than both BG games mainly because I think the story is vastly better, and that's the main reason I play games like these.

This is a matter of taste. And I am still in Act 2 of PoE so I cannot compare stories fully.

But it is a shame to play games like BG or PoE for story only.

[Zwiebelchen]

Hmph. I disagree with just about every point you mentioned.

 

The music is decent but there is far too little of it. It seems to repeat a LOT, particularly the battle music. It isn't so good that I want to listen to the same parts more than once.

 

The NPCs are incredibly bland, without any interaction or conversation. The banter between NPCs in Baldur's Gate and other games was, for me, the whole point of having them. In PoE, they feel like muscle and quest-givers, nothing more. (Edit: except for the Chanter and the Priest, to be fair.)

 

They really did not think very much about the stronghold. It feels like a tick-in-a-box: "has home-base". You get it too early and for zero effort, it has timed events that you have to rush back for, it doesn't really reward you with anything and the dungeon underneath it is tedious and bland.

 

Finally, comparing any "traditional" elves-dwarves-swords-etc RPG to Planescape Torment is laughable. Sigil and the protagonist from that game were far more original and far more interesting.

 

The music imho was quite good. I guess we can't blame Obsidian for not having more of it, given the budget of the game. We will see more music tracks in the expansion for sure.

 

Party banter in BG? Did we play the same game? There was no Party Banter in BG. Every character was a silent cardboard cutout except for it's initial quest. But I agree there could be more banter in PoE, especially in act 1, where the npcs rarely speak if not approached actively by the PC. It's weird Aloth has the least dialogue when he is the first character you encounter in the game.

 

The stronghold was a stretch goal and imho feels like it. It certainly was one of those features that would have been cut before release in any big-budget game. Unfortunately, Obsidian had to deliver it because it was part of the backer stretchgoals. I hope it will be expanded upon with meaningful mechanics in the expansion.

 

You can't compare PoE to PS:T really. They are different games. PS:T is pretty much a straight linear RPG with a fixed protagonist. PoE is more sandbox in that it allows you to build and characterize your own character.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Atheosis]

 

 

Yes the game is truly awesome! Best game since BG1 and BG2! And I have not been this glued to a RPG since Mass Effect 1 and Vampire Bloodlines.

 

But there are still many places to improve if they want it to compete with BG1 and BG2. Hopefully PoE 2 is as big improvement on PoE 1 as BG2 was on BG1.

I honestly think it's better than both BG games mainly because I think the story is vastly better, and that's the main reason I play games like these.

This is a matter of taste. And I am still in Act 2 of PoE so I cannot compare stories fully.

But it is a shame to play games like BG or PoE for story only.

 

 

I didn't say I play them for story only.  That's what books and movies are for.

[PrimeJunta]

Hehe yeah.

 

I'm finding these "IS POOP BECAUSE ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE GREATEST CRPG OF ALL TIEM!" posts rather amusing actually.

 

No, the writing isn't as good as PS:T's at its best.

No, the encounter design isn't as good as BG2's at its best.

No, the exploration isn't as rich as in BG1. 

No, the dungeon crawls aren't as well-structured as in IWD.

 

But the writing is way better than IWD, BG1, or (IMO) BG2.

And the encounter design is way better than in BG1 or PS:T.

And the exploration is way better than IWD or PS:T.

And the dungeon crawls are way better than BG1 (possible exception for expansion dungeons aside).

 

And... it's a relatively low-budget Kickstarted game developed from scratch in two years. The fact that it's even worth comparing to these classics in the very areas which made them classics is a pretty damn huge deal. It's like reviewing somebody's debut novel and saying "Well, it's not quite as good as Dostoevsky at his best."

[Zwiebelchen]

Hehe yeah.

 

I'm finding these "IS POOP BECAUSE ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE GREATEST CRPG OF ALL TIEM!" posts rather amusing actually.

 

No, the writing isn't as good as PS:T's at its best.

No, the encounter design isn't as good as BG2's at its best.

No, the exploration isn't as rich as in BG1. 

No, the dungeon crawls aren't as well-structured as in IWD.

 

But the writing is way better than IWD, BG1, or (IMO) BG2.

And the encounter design is way better than in BG1 or PS:T.

And the exploration is way better than IWD or PS:T.

And the dungeon crawls are way better than BG1 (possible exception for expansion dungeons aside).

 

And... it's a relatively low-budget Kickstarted game developed from scratch in two years. The fact that it's even worth comparing to these classics in the very areas which made them classics is a pretty damn huge deal. It's like reviewing somebody's debut novel and saying "Well, it's not quite as good as Dostoevsky at his best."

 

This. PoE is basicly what would happen if IWD, BG, BG2 and PS:T had rough and violent sex:

 

- PS:T had those giant double-D story-boobs

- IWD had that technique to make good use of her assets

- BG had that innocent naivity and curiousity to explore

- BG2 had the personality that lights your desire every time you see her

 

... can the offspring even have all that, considering you can't be a slender Loli and a voluptuous Vixen at the same time? Hell no. Would you bang it for being generally hot? Hell yes!

Edited April 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Awathorn]

Agreed. Would bang, would not marry. But then how is that different from number of rpgs from the last decade or so?

 

Still, it is the first game, made with limited resources.

 

With proper funding and less stuborness and reinventing the wheel from dev team... could be a great game in the future.

 

Wow, just think what would PoE look like with 1M llfunding.

[anameforobsidian]

Hehe yeah.

 

I'm finding these "IS POOP BECAUSE ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE GREATEST CRPG OF ALL TIEM!" posts rather amusing actually.

 

No, the writing isn't as good as PS:T's at its best.

No, the encounter design isn't as good as BG2's at its best.

No, the exploration isn't as rich as in BG1. 

No, the dungeon crawls aren't as well-structured as in IWD.

 

But the writing is way better than IWD, BG1, or (IMO) BG2.

And the encounter design is way better than in BG1 or PS:T.

And the exploration is way better than IWD or PS:T.

And the dungeon crawls are way better than BG1 (possible exception for expansion dungeons aside).

 

And... it's a relatively low-budget Kickstarted game developed from scratch in two years. The fact that it's even worth comparing to these classics in the very areas which made them classics is a pretty damn huge deal. It's like reviewing somebody's debut novel and saying "Well, it's not quite as good as Dostoevsky at his best."

 

Absolutely.  It's telling that what I want from this game is more in every direction.  More wilderness areas for exploration / wonky side quests, a longer main plot to let the reveal get more gradual (really it seems like more of a sequel reveal), more options in dungeons, more varied encounters / mobs.  All of which leads me to think there's a pretty solid core.

 

I was actually pretty satisfied with the dungeons in general.  Od Nua felt like a separate game entirely.

Edited April 8, 2015 by anameforobsidian

[Zwiebelchen]

Agreed. Would bang, would not marry. But then how is that different from number of rpgs from the last decade or so?

 

 

The difference is: PoE is actually a real woman, while games like DAI are more like a lifeless sexdoll (in that example quite literally).

 

... and at least Sawyer moved away from some of his initial mantras about the mechanics in PoE. We've got plenty of community feedback worked into the game already. And I expect more to come.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Xharlie]

Party banter in Baldur's Gate 1: Montaron and Xzar. Enough said.

 

Story and writing and characters are not the beginning and end of a game but, to be honest, the game-play in PoE is clunky at best. I just don't feel the fun in the combat.

 

There is a lot they can do to improve it and I am hoping that, with a few patches, it will feel less boring. It is at least a decent game so making it less tedious will certainly make it more fun.

 

You can call me what you like - I rant because I care. I cared enough to buy the game because, like the rest of you, I want to see a resurgence in this genre. I had high hopes for Pillars of Eternity and they were not met.

[Eurhetemec]

Hehe yeah.

 

I'm finding these "IS POOP BECAUSE ISN'T AS GOOD AS THE GREATEST CRPG OF ALL TIEM!" posts rather amusing actually.

 

No, the writing isn't as good as PS:T's at its best.

No, the encounter design isn't as good as BG2's at its best.

No, the exploration isn't as rich as in BG1. 

No, the dungeon crawls aren't as well-structured as in IWD.

 

But the writing is way better than IWD, BG1, or (IMO) BG2.

And the encounter design is way better than in BG1 or PS:T.

And the exploration is way better than IWD or PS:T.

And the dungeon crawls are way better than BG1 (possible exception for expansion dungeons aside).

 

And... it's a relatively low-budget Kickstarted game developed from scratch in two years. The fact that it's even worth comparing to these classics in the very areas which made them classics is a pretty damn huge deal. It's like reviewing somebody's debut novel and saying "Well, it's not quite as good as Dostoevsky at his best."

 

Well said, and I would agree completely with your assessments of it's relatively quality compared to those games. The writing thing can't be overstated, either, given that we're constantly interacting with the world and learning about through the written word in a way that's simply not true of a lot of CRPGs. It's a much, much bigger deal for an isometric party-based CRPG to have good writing than it is, for, say, a Skyrim-type. Also, it's not a little better than BG2/IWD writing-wise, it's massively better, and yes, I've played them recently, and was actually rather shocked and appalled at how terrible the writing was at times. Of course Fallout 1 & 2, both of which came out before BG1 even, had vastly better writing than BG2, so there's that.

 

(Of course what was amazing about BG2 wasn't the writing but rather it's epic scope and the fact that it took you to so many utterly fantastical and rather unexpected places! We can only hope that a Pillars 2 does the same - going from the relatively mundane world deeper and deeper into the bizarre and arcane one)

[Eurhetemec]

Party banter in Baldur's Gate 1: Montaron and Xzar. Enough said.

 

Story and writing and characters are not the beginning and end of a game but, to be honest, the game-play in PoE is clunky at best. I just don't feel the fun in the combat.

 

There is a lot they can do to improve it and I am hoping that, with a few patches, it will feel less boring. It is at least a decent game so making it less tedious will certainly make it more fun.

 

You can call me what you like - I rant because I care. I cared enough to buy the game because, like the rest of you, I want to see a resurgence in this genre. I had high hopes for Pillars of Eternity and they were not met.

 

I don't see it - how is the gameplay "clunky at best" compared to the deeply clunky BG1/2 and IWD? I mean, I've played them recently - the gameplay in them is hideous compared to Pillars unless you're playing BG2 and you really love nothing better than working out how best to dump your massive arsenal of ludicrous spells to insta-win a fight and then rest.

 

Can it be improved? Sure. But "clunky" doesn't tell us how.

 

As for party banter in BG1, man what? It was absolutely DIRE. It was basically "What if you took two really bad roleplayers who rely on cheap stereotypes and crude understandings of the alignment rules, and had them come up with insults or verbal brofists for each other?". BG2 was a bit better, still pretty awful. At least in Pillars they talk like, y'know people, not bad D&D players.

[Zwiebelchen]

I still see comments about party banter in BG1. Have we played the same game? There wasn't any party banter. Every NPC remained completely silent after it's initial quest?!

[Gallenger]

The nostalgia goggles are stronger for some people than they are others lol. 

 

I can heartily agree with the OP - I felt physically ill after playing this game at release because, I got to playing around 1:30 on that Thursday.  I had some soda, and some snacks, and expected to play until 7-8, and I looked over at the clock at it was 4 am :/  It's been a long time since I just blasted a game the way I did PE lol.  And as soon as I finished, I had to make another character lol. 

 

As far as NPCs - I honestly expected more BG1-esq NPCs (I was initially worried that there were only 8, but what they *did* give us was great.  The way the NPCs are written in this game is plainly more P:T than BG1-2, or Fallout 1-2.   You *can* put NPCs in the game who don't really talk much or interact with the world - and have it still work.  Just look at how many people love dog meat.  Dog meat has almost 0 party banter, no party interaction, no NPC interaction, and no romance subplot.  Do people still remember dog meat fondly?  They opted for more verbose NPCs in this game, and I was fine with that. 

 

One of the main criticisms of BG - from a new player - if you show it to them, and they've played say, Mass Effect, is that the NPCs and the game world feels "cold" because of how little direct interaction with the PC goes on.   The old salts among us are fine with that - maybe even prefer it - but it's certainly a new "trend" to feel the need to laden your NPCs with a lot of interaction and back story + direct PC interaction.  (I regularly give BG as a birthday present lol)

Edited April 8, 2015 by Gallenger