Chanters too slow

[Tequilaflavor]

I actually enjoy the fact that Chanters are pretty much "reverse Wizards" in that their abilities get stronger in longer fights instead of doing their best upfront and then being not very useful later.

 

I also found that most of the more difficult fights easily last long enough for the invocations to kick in (fights where I have to reposition and "heal" my party several times etc.) - and on the easier fights they're not needed anyway.

 

I'm playing on Normal btw. and my characters are probably not really optimized (I like a bit of flavor and am still learning PoE's systems).

[Telmorial]

I to am finding the chants build up too slowly, I've only been able to use 1 invocation so far, playing on hard.

 

Does Recovery Time affect the speed of building the Chanters chants? When Kana joined the party he has some armor which has a -50% recovery time. Would changing that armor to something which has less RT speed up his chants. IE. Take less time to build up the 3 chants required for an invocation.

[Mercbeast]

 

Yes, but Intellect increases the duration so at 17 intellect (+35%) they linger long enough that you can keep 2 phrases active at all times.

Has this been working for you in game?

 

I haven't noticed an increase with 18 int so far.

 

 

Definitely working. My tank chanter has like 15 or 16 int can't remember at the moment, and the linger is over half of the duration. So running the chant that gives will/fort saves I have almost a constant +20.

 

I'm also not really noticing the problem with how fast chanters get their invocations. Granted I am playing on POTD, but I also wasn't having problems with on Hard either. I wonder if some of you got hit with that difficulty bug unknowingly.

 

On POTD I have noticed however that a tank chanter just cannot soak the damage that even a super sub-optimal fighter tank can. I don't have Eder spec'd for tanking at all, but I am using him as a tank and he has soaked nearly 2x as much endurance damage as my super-duper min-maxed chanter tank. It's ok though! Thematically I love chanters and the utility they bring is insane. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by Mercbeast

[Epsilon Rose]

 

 

Yes, but Intellect increases the duration so at 17 intellect (+35%) they linger long enough that you can keep 2 phrases active at all times.

Has this been working for you in game?

 

I haven't noticed an increase with 18 int so far.

 

 

Definitely working. My tank chanter has like 15 or 16 int can't remember at the moment, and the linger is over half of the duration. So running the chant that gives will/fort saves I have almost a constant +20.

 

I'm also not really noticing the problem with how fast chanters get their invocations. Granted I am playing on POTD, but I also wasn't having problems with on Hard either. I wonder if some of you got hit with that difficulty bug unknowingly.

 

On POTD I have noticed however that a tank chanter just cannot soak the damage that even a super sub-optimal fighter tank can. I don't have Eder spec'd for tanking at all, but I am using him as a tank and he has soaked nearly 2x as much endurance damage as my super-duper min-maxed chanter tank. It's ok though! Thematically I love chanters and the utility they bring is insane. 

 

There's a difficulty bug? How do you know if you have it? I'm playing a chanter that's not too terribly optimized on normal, which the game describes as fairly difficult, but things just keep exploding on me and I'm having trouble building up to invocations until the very end of fights.

[Galamere]

 

 

 

 

Yes, but Intellect increases the duration so at 17 intellect (+35%) they linger long enough that you can keep 2 phrases active at all times.

Has this been working for you in game?

 

I haven't noticed an increase with 18 int so far.

 

 

Definitely working. My tank chanter has like 15 or 16 int can't remember at the moment, and the linger is over half of the duration. So running the chant that gives will/fort saves I have almost a constant +20.

 

I'm also not really noticing the problem with how fast chanters get their invocations. Granted I am playing on POTD, but I also wasn't having problems with on Hard either. I wonder if some of you got hit with that difficulty bug unknowingly.

 

On POTD I have noticed however that a tank chanter just cannot soak the damage that even a super sub-optimal fighter tank can. I don't have Eder spec'd for tanking at all, but I am using him as a tank and he has soaked nearly 2x as much endurance damage as my super-duper min-maxed chanter tank. It's ok though! Thematically I love chanters and the utility they bring is insane. 

 

There's a difficulty bug? How do you know if you have it? I'm playing a chanter that's not too terribly optimized on normal, which the game describes as fairly difficult, but things just keep exploding on me and I'm having trouble building up to invocations until the very end of fights.

 

 

 

That may come down to your armor and the like then, or just not controlling your skills well, I'm still re-learning all this myself :/  Keeping guys knocked down, getting the right armor with good stats.  I've going a tank chanter that can take a fair beating, unless everything focuses on him first, then he pops like a cork.

[Stacker]

 

 

Yes, but Intellect increases the duration so at 17 intellect (+35%) they linger long enough that you can keep 2 phrases active at all times.

Has this been working for you in game?

 

I haven't noticed an increase with 18 int so far.

 

 

Definitely working. My tank chanter has like 15 or 16 int can't remember at the moment, and the linger is over half of the duration. So running the chant that gives will/fort saves I have almost a constant +20.

 

Have you confirmed this with the buff durations in game?  My Chanter has 20 int, and chants are only lasting for exactly 6 seconds (4s + 2s linger) in game, as per the duration on the buff.  Chants that apply an aura or debuff effect have their duration modified correctly, but the base chant itself does not seem to.

[Baka Otaku]

My own testing leads me to be pretty certain that, as of the release build, INT only affects the linger duration of chants, and doesn't take the base duration into account.  So at 20 INT (+50% duration), a chant with a 4-second duration and 2-second linger has a 4-second duration and 3-second linger.  You can't get two level-1 chants twisting with 100% uptime each unless you can reach 30 INT somehow with items.

 

On the bright side, INT also increases effect radius, so there's that. 

[Ceranai]

Playing PoTD with 4 chanters and with the longer tougher fights using chanters is almost cheating, you can just spam summons for the entire fight once you survive the first 12 seconds (dont know where you are getting the number 18 from you need 3 charges and each chant lasts 4, 4x3=12), the chants are also pretty cool, the speed buff makes kiting possible!

[Dongom]

Playing PoTD with 4 chanters and with the longer tougher fights using chanters is almost cheating, you can just spam summons for the entire fight once you survive the first 12 seconds (dont know where you are getting the number 18 from you need 3 charges and each chant lasts 4, 4x3=12), the chants are also pretty cool, the speed buff makes kiting possible!

 

The Arrow song is also OP, and some areas the corpse-explosion invocation can just be brutal.

 

Chanter is easily my favorite class in this game. 

[Ceranai]

My own testing leads me to be pretty certain that, as of the release build, INT only affects the linger duration of chants, and doesn't take the base duration into account.  So at 20 INT (+50% duration), a chant with a 4-second duration and 2-second linger has a 4-second duration and 3-second linger.  You can't get two level-1 chants twisting with 100% uptime each unless you can reach 30 INT somehow with items.

 

On the bright side, INT also increases effect radius, so there's that. 

yea i was thinking that i was 99% sure he was wrong but didnt want to say coz he seemed sure he was right XD, and im playing with 4 chanters XD (though im not even bothering to twist chants atm.

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

Playing PoTD with 4 chanters and with the longer tougher fights using chanters is almost cheating, you can just spam summons for the entire fight once you survive the first 12 seconds (dont know where you are getting the number 18 from you need 3 charges and each chant lasts 4, 4x3=12), the chants are also pretty cool, the speed buff makes kiting possible!

 

The Arrow song is also OP, and some areas the corpse-explosion invocation can just be brutal.

 

Chanter is easily my favorite class in this game. 

 

 

It's good, but I prefer AOE frightened in higher difficuluties -10 accuracy is a life saving debuff in POTD. 

[Ansa]

I would say cut the higher level chants back to default 4 seconds

Simply because, by the time you get them, the fights are already difficult enough without having to wait TWENTY FOUR seconds to release your summon.

 

Hopefully devs agree

[Skor]

 

Playing PoTD with 4 chanters and with the longer tougher fights using chanters is almost cheating, you can just spam summons for the entire fight once you survive the first 12 seconds (dont know where you are getting the number 18 from you need 3 charges and each chant lasts 4, 4x3=12), the chants are also pretty cool, the speed buff makes kiting possible!

 

The Arrow song is also OP, and some areas the corpse-explosion invocation can just be brutal.

 

Chanter is easily my favorite class in this game. 

 

 

I used a stop watch with both a 20 int and 10 int chanter and the time to get 3 chant markers was identical:  18 seconds.

[Epsilon Rose]

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but Intellect increases the duration so at 17 intellect (+35%) they linger long enough that you can keep 2 phrases active at all times.

Has this been working for you in game?

 

I haven't noticed an increase with 18 int so far.

 

 

Definitely working. My tank chanter has like 15 or 16 int can't remember at the moment, and the linger is over half of the duration. So running the chant that gives will/fort saves I have almost a constant +20.

 

I'm also not really noticing the problem with how fast chanters get their invocations. Granted I am playing on POTD, but I also wasn't having problems with on Hard either. I wonder if some of you got hit with that difficulty bug unknowingly.

 

On POTD I have noticed however that a tank chanter just cannot soak the damage that even a super sub-optimal fighter tank can. I don't have Eder spec'd for tanking at all, but I am using him as a tank and he has soaked nearly 2x as much endurance damage as my super-duper min-maxed chanter tank. It's ok though! Thematically I love chanters and the utility they bring is insane. 

 

There's a difficulty bug? How do you know if you have it? I'm playing a chanter that's not too terribly optimized on normal, which the game describes as fairly difficult, but things just keep exploding on me and I'm having trouble building up to invocations until the very end of fights.

 

 

 

That may come down to your armor and the like then, or just not controlling your skills well, I'm still re-learning all this myself :/  Keeping guys knocked down, getting the right armor with good stats.  I've going a tank chanter that can take a fair beating, unless everything focuses on him first, then he pops like a cork.

 

Ah. I think you misunderstood. My enemies explode too quickly.

[Ceranai]

 

 

Playing PoTD with 4 chanters and with the longer tougher fights using chanters is almost cheating, you can just spam summons for the entire fight once you survive the first 12 seconds (dont know where you are getting the number 18 from you need 3 charges and each chant lasts 4, 4x3=12), the chants are also pretty cool, the speed buff makes kiting possible!

 

The Arrow song is also OP, and some areas the corpse-explosion invocation can just be brutal.

 

Chanter is easily my favorite class in this game. 

 

 

I used a stop watch with both a 20 int and 10 int chanter and the time to get 3 chant markers was identical:  18 seconds.

 

My invocations always ready the same time for both thats why i dont max intel as a preiority except to increase my shout range, i am so confused aboout the time though, i havnt formally timed it but its the time for three chants to finish, each chant is 4 seconds duration, instant cast. Where the hell is the number 18 coming from??????

[PrimeJunta]

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

[Ceranai]

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

Not really, the delay is what balances them IMO, if you could get summons that quickly your party would be invincible coz you could spam summons like crazy, i mean thats a phantom every 8 seconds lol.

 

PS- i guess they could nerf the invocations but i think tis pretty well balanced, in my 4 chanter game its a lot of fun trying to survive long enough but if you do survive its gg with 4 phantoms, phantoms hit like trains especiallyat level one compared to the dps you put out

Edited March 31, 2015 by Ceranai

[Sleazebag]

 

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

Not really, the delay is what balances them IMO, if you could get summons that quickly your party would be invincible coz you could spam summons like crazy, i mean thats a phantom every 8 seconds lol.

 

PS- i guess they could nerf the invocations but i think tis pretty well balanced, in my 4 chanter game its a lot of fun trying to survive long enough but if you do survive its gg with 4 phantoms, phantoms hit like trains especiallyat level one compared to the dps you put out

 

 

You can only have one summon spell out per character, so no, you wouldn't be able to spam summons. 

[Faydark]

 

 

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

Not really, the delay is what balances them IMO, if you could get summons that quickly your party would be invincible coz you could spam summons like crazy, i mean thats a phantom every 8 seconds lol.

 

PS- i guess they could nerf the invocations but i think tis pretty well balanced, in my 4 chanter game its a lot of fun trying to survive long enough but if you do survive its gg with 4 phantoms, phantoms hit like trains especiallyat level one compared to the dps you put out

 

 

You can only have one summon spell out per character, so no, you wouldn't be able to spam summons. 

 

I happen to agree that right now Chants/Invocation seem a little "slow". My suggestion is to decrease the cast time of a Chant (to say 3 or 3.5 seconds) and adjust the linger so that the duration remains the same as now. This would speed up invocation generation a bit.

 

And although you can only have one summon per character, if they were sped up too much it would become a viable tactic to chain summon tank stuff. Summon skeles, let them grab agro, watch them get rapidly destroyed on harder hitting stuff, but you can just summon a fresh bunch before they are wiped out and repeat etc.

[Ceranai]

 

 

I agree. I barely ever get to the point where I get to use an invocation and by then the fight is already won anyway. They need to come one phrase sooner.

Not really, the delay is what balances them IMO, if you could get summons that quickly your party would be invincible coz you could spam summons like crazy, i mean thats a phantom every 8 seconds lol.

 

PS- i guess they could nerf the invocations but i think tis pretty well balanced, in my 4 chanter game its a lot of fun trying to survive long enough but if you do survive its gg with 4 phantoms, phantoms hit like trains especiallyat level one compared to the dps you put out

 

 

You can only have one summon spell out per character, so no, you wouldn't be able to spam summons. 

 

No but you can use them to form a wall if you have 4 chanters, being able to refresh every 8 seconds would make my current build invincible and its already pretty powerful.

[Epsilon Rose]

Part of my problem with the current setup is that it sort-of devalues that chant mechanic and the way you can arrange chants. If you want to use invocations, than the best way to get them quickly seems to be to have 1 phrase chants using first level chants. I could put together longer chants, but they don't seem to have as much effect as my summoning a phantom to wail on things. This is sad, because the whole chant mechanic strikes me as really cool. That part of the problem, at least, seems like it would be really easy to fix by giving 1 point per phrase, not chant.

[loewenheim]

Wait, it counts chants completed, not phrases? That makes zero sense :/

[Arctic]

they get 1 chant when they chant all their list .. you can put 1 2 or 3 chants so .... if you put 1 is ... 1 tokken per 4 seconds, 2 is 1 tokken per 8 secconds 3 is 1 tokken per 12 seconds ... so ... xD

 

 

If you end a fight in 10-15 seconds you dont need to summon a drake.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Arctic

[Krackus]

Phrase - basic passive action for chanter, Chant - a customisable combination of phrases, Invocation - A 'powerful' effect unleashed using chant tokens. People seem to use phrase/chant interchangebly making it pretty confusing to read.
@Epsilon Rose - I'm assuming that you get 1 token/phrase if instead you get 1 token/chant I would consider it a bug or terrible design, I'm going to test it once I'm back home, might just as well also have a look at phrase linger duration, someone suggested it's not affected by intelligence which I'd also consider a bug or terrible design (phrase duration shouldn't be affected but linger duration should)

[Faydark]

I didn't know this either, so I just tested Phrase counter.

 

You get 1 counter per Phrase spoken, at the point where the "cast" finishes (The darker green area on the Chant bar, which is the point where the Linger starts (lighter green area), and where you start casting your next Phrase in the Chant).

 

I'll update my post with this info for future reference.