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My first play-through is going to be a Wild Orlan cipher. My plan was to focus mainly on damaging spells and use a stiletto/hatchet combo in one weapon slot and a pike in the other. I would mainly poke from behind the tank and use the stiletto/hatchet combo when engaged in melee. I don't want to be incompetent at the dialogue side of things either, but I don't know where the cut-off points are yet (if I put 13 in Intelligence, will I find out the normal pass is 14? That'd be balls). I'm also going to have this guy focus on mechanics and stealth, since there's no rogue companion and I want to use the pre-mades.

All I'm really looking for is what an appropriate stat spread would be best, since there's so much conflicting information about what stats do what and so on. Early-level talent advice would not be ignored, however. :-D

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I'm also going to have this guy focus on mechanics and stealth, since there's no rogue companion and I want to use the pre-mades.

 

 

As a side note - we will have fighter, cipher, priest, wizard, chanter, druid(?) coompanions. Did i miss someone?

Edited by Sherr
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As far as combat goes, you'll want Intelligence, Might, and Dexterity (in roughly that order of priority) to be as high as possible.

Thank you!

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As far as combat goes, you'll want Intelligence, Might, and Dexterity (in roughly that order of priority) to be as high as possible.

Thank you!

Not quite.  If "DAMAGE" is your top concern Might is always the #1 stat, period.  Dexterity is okay but you don't need to invest in it in some heavy way.  Int is good if you plan to do a lot of aoe based casting, if you plan to spec more into the charm/control side of things it might not be that helpful to you though I would not ignore it.  You may want to consider a little perception as well to help with Interrupts.

 

Also don't consider dialogue nonsense at all in your character build.  There is no such thing as a "dialogue" character in this game.  Obsidian has tracked every usage of a stat or skill in conversation to see how often it is used and apparently balanced the game so that all stats/skills are basically used evenly.  Additionally "skill" choices in dialogue are not even necessarily the "right" choice in Eternity and many times simply lead to more flavor not a superior outcome.  Sometimes using a skill/stat based dialogue choice actually leads to sub optimal results.

Edited by Karkarov
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Int also affects duration so I would consider it pretty important for charm/cc. 

Yeah, this is pretty useful for cipher.  I'd go Might/Int, and just ignore everything else.

 

I am a bit puzzled by the stiletto/hatchet combination, though, not the least because the different weapon groups make it extra problematic to overcome the lower base accuracy for the class.

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Int also affects duration so I would consider it pretty important for charm/cc. 

Yeah, this is pretty useful for cipher.  I'd go Might/Int, and just ignore everything else.

 

I am a bit puzzled by the stiletto/hatchet combination, though, not the least because the different weapon groups make it extra problematic to overcome the lower base accuracy for the class.

 

That's purely a roleplaying decision; has nothing whatsoever to do with optimization or such. I just wanted to know what would help to make that combination as non-****ty as it can be.

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Honestly, in a case involving the Weapon Focus talents, it's probably the only context where I'll actually say this; just cheat. Yes, there is a very clear potential abuse in that, in that you will have a much higher weapon flexibility than you should have, but honestly, I think all of the weapon groups deliberately (and boringly) covers all the damage groups and whatnot anyway, making it more or less purely a flavour decision, and if you know yourself and restrict yourself, and purely roleplay that you want to use those two specific weapons exclusively anyway, just cheat. Give yourself the extra Talent and a pat on the shoulder. It's not going to make a difference one way or another in terms of actual difficulty, except you won't feel like an idiot halfway through the game.

 

Despite the fact that I've already decided that I'm going to exclusively use rapiers, I'm going to give myself both Weapon Focus (Noble) and Weapon Focus (Knight). Why? Because I'm an Aedyr Aristocrat and a Bleak Walker Paladin. No other reason. And I'm not burning 1/6 of my talents just for that.

 

Also, on the topic, I'd pump the hell out of Might and Intellect, and any points that doesn't go into those, would go into Dexterity. Personally, from an RP perspective, I'd probably prioritize Dexterity over Might, but that's just me wanting to stab stab stabbity stab, I say a-stab, stab, stabbity stab.

Edited by Luckmann
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Ah. Well, not much you can do with that, unfortunately.  Stiletto, Hatchet and pike are all in different groups, so the only thing I could really recommending is not to take a weapon focus talent at all.  Which means focusing on powers and grabbing Greater Focus early.

The mechanical problem with that is you're going to have to live with missing or grazing a fair bit, and thus getting back less focus, which makes you less effective in longer fights.  I'm not particularly sold on that, though.  Other caster classes can get by without worrying about hitting with weapons, but for a cipher, it is really a kick in the pants, because it directly affects your ability to continue to cast in each fight.

Edited by Voss
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Despite the fact that I've already decided that I'm going to exclusively use rapiers, I'm going to give myself both Weapon Focus (Noble) and Weapon Focus (Knight). Why? Because I'm an Aedyr Aristocrat and a Bleak Walker Paladin. No other reason. And I'm not burning 1/6 of my talents just for that.

I have to ask Luckmann.  Why is having a talent you plan to make no use of at all must have for your character?  You aren't going to make any use of it and weapon focus represents extensive training with a given set of weapons.  Not having extensive training with weapons you don't use kind of makes sense from a roleplay point... just saying.

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Honestly, in a case involving the Weapon Focus talents, it's probably the only context where I'll actually say this; just cheat. Yes, there is a very clear potential abuse in that, in that you will have a much higher weapon flexibility than you should have, but honestly, I think all of the weapon groups deliberately (and boringly) covers all the damage groups and whatnot anyway, making it more or less purely a flavour decision, and if you know yourself and restrict yourself, and purely roleplay that you want to use those two specific weapons exclusively anyway, just cheat. Give yourself the extra Talent and a pat on the shoulder. It's not going to make a difference one way or another in terms of actual difficulty, except you won't feel like an idiot halfway through the game.

 

Despite the fact that I've already decided that I'm going to exclusively use rapiers, I'm going to give myself both Weapon Focus (Noble) and Weapon Focus (Knight). Why? Because I'm an Aedyr Aristocrat and a Bleak Walker Paladin. No other reason. And I'm not burning 1/6 of my talents just for that.

 

Also, on the topic, I'd pump the hell out of Might and Intellect, and any points that doesn't go into those, would go into Dexterity. Personally, from an RP perspective, I'd probably prioritize Dexterity over Might, but that's just me wanting to stab stab stabbity stab, I say a-stab, stab, stabbity stab.

Adding the weapon focus with cheats might end up being something I do, actually, just so my roleplay choice is a little more viable.

 

The pike is meant to be more-or-less what's left of his rational side...his self-control, his training, teaching him to stay back, use his magic, support his teammates.

 

The stiletto and hatchet are emblamatic of his going native and a little crazy...somebody comes up and attacks him face-to-face, he starts stabbing...and hacking...and stabbing...and laughing...and it's just not good for anyone.

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Despite the fact that I've already decided that I'm going to exclusively use rapiers, I'm going to give myself both Weapon Focus (Noble) and Weapon Focus (Knight). Why? Because I'm an Aedyr Aristocrat and a Bleak Walker Paladin. No other reason. And I'm not burning 1/6 of my talents just for that.

I have to ask Luckmann.  Why is having a talent you plan to make no use of at all must have for your character?  You aren't going to make any use of it and weapon focus represents extensive training with a given set of weapons.  Not having extensive training with weapons you don't use kind of makes sense from a roleplay point... just saying.

 

 

Personal preference, really. I envision him as having extensive training as a Nobleman and as a Knight, even if he favours the Rapier. And since there is no cheat in the cheating, so to say, I don't consider it cheating, since it'll most likely never be a factor at all.

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Honestly, in a case involving the Weapon Focus talents, it's probably the only context where I'll actually say this; just cheat. Yes, there is a very clear potential abuse in that, in that you will have a much higher weapon flexibility than you should have, but honestly, I think all of the weapon groups deliberately (and boringly) covers all the damage groups and whatnot anyway, making it more or less purely a flavour decision, and if you know yourself and restrict yourself, and purely roleplay that you want to use those two specific weapons exclusively anyway, just cheat. Give yourself the extra Talent and a pat on the shoulder. It's not going to make a difference one way or another in terms of actual difficulty, except you won't feel like an idiot halfway through the game.

 

Despite the fact that I've already decided that I'm going to exclusively use rapiers, I'm going to give myself both Weapon Focus (Noble) and Weapon Focus (Knight). Why? Because I'm an Aedyr Aristocrat and a Bleak Walker Paladin. No other reason. And I'm not burning 1/6 of my talents just for that.

 

Also, on the topic, I'd pump the hell out of Might and Intellect, and any points that doesn't go into those, would go into Dexterity. Personally, from an RP perspective, I'd probably prioritize Dexterity over Might, but that's just me wanting to stab stab stabbity stab, I say a-stab, stab, stabbity stab.

 

how much con do I need for a blunderbass cipher? can I drop it to 8 in character creation? 

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Honestly, in a case involving the Weapon Focus talents, it's probably the only context where I'll actually say this; just cheat. Yes, there is a very clear potential abuse in that, in that you will have a much higher weapon flexibility than you should have, but honestly, I think all of the weapon groups deliberately (and boringly) covers all the damage groups and whatnot anyway, making it more or less purely a flavour decision, and if you know yourself and restrict yourself, and purely roleplay that you want to use those two specific weapons exclusively anyway, just cheat. Give yourself the extra Talent and a pat on the shoulder. It's not going to make a difference one way or another in terms of actual difficulty, except you won't feel like an idiot halfway through the game.

 

Despite the fact that I've already decided that I'm going to exclusively use rapiers, I'm going to give myself both Weapon Focus (Noble) and Weapon Focus (Knight). Why? Because I'm an Aedyr Aristocrat and a Bleak Walker Paladin. No other reason. And I'm not burning 1/6 of my talents just for that.

 

Also, on the topic, I'd pump the hell out of Might and Intellect, and any points that doesn't go into those, would go into Dexterity. Personally, from an RP perspective, I'd probably prioritize Dexterity over Might, but that's just me wanting to stab stab stabbity stab, I say a-stab, stab, stabbity stab.

 

how much con do I need for a blunderbass cipher? can I drop it to 8 in character creation? 

 

blunderbuss?  You're fine ignoring it.   Any sort of ranged weapon and standing behind the front rank of combat  works pretty well for ciphers, which reduces the need for Con.  Just don't put them on the line.

Edited by Voss
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how much con do I need for a blunderbass cipher? can I drop it to 8 in character creation?

All depends on what you want to do with your Cipher.  Fair warning, I wouldn't really drop con on any character below 10.  You will get hit sooner or later and if your con is low your endurance is low and that one hit may be all it takes.  That said unless you plan on meleeing with your cipher (which is where I prefer them) you can safely ignore con for the most part.  Like I said though I would never intentionally make a character with less than 10 con.

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Does weapon focus really matter that much? 6 accuracy doesn't seem like a big deal.

 

Yeah it matters.

 

For example, lets take a weapon with 10 avg damage (for nice round numbers) against 0 deflection (for simplicity).

 

Over an infinite sample of hits, you will on average do 15 misses, 35 grazes (50% DMG), and 50 hits every 100 strikes:

 

(35*5+50*10)/100 = 6.75 DMG per hit avg.

 

with a 6 accuracy boost - 9 misses, 35 grazes (50% DMG), 50 hits, 6 crits (150% DMG):

 

(35*5+50*10+6*15)/100 = 7.65 DMG per hit avg, a 13.3*% DMG boost.

 

Relative values of base accuracy and your enemy's deflection will affect this, but its always pretty strong.

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Also don't consider dialogue nonsense at all in your character build.  There is no such thing as a "dialogue" character in this game.  Obsidian has tracked every usage of a stat or skill in conversation to see how often it is used and apparently balanced the game so that all stats/skills are basically used evenly.  Additionally "skill" choices in dialogue are not even necessarily the "right" choice in Eternity and many times simply lead to more flavor not a superior outcome.  Sometimes using a skill/stat based dialogue choice actually leads to sub optimal results.

This can be witnessed to extreme in beta. There is at least one dialogue where "hey, look at me, I'm so perceptive in the middle of a civil conversation" leads to fight out of sudden.

Edited by Veevoir
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Also don't consider dialogue nonsense at all in your character build.  There is no such thing as a "dialogue" character in this game.  Obsidian has tracked every usage of a stat or skill in conversation to see how often it is used and apparently balanced the game so that all stats/skills are basically used evenly.  Additionally "skill" choices in dialogue are not even necessarily the "right" choice in Eternity and many times simply lead to more flavor not a superior outcome.  Sometimes using a skill/stat based dialogue choice actually leads to sub optimal results.

This can be witnessed to extreme in beta. There is at least one dialogue where "hey, look at me, I'm so perceptive in the middle of a civil conversation" leads to fight out of sudden.

 

This is one of the reasons I will hide Dialogue Qualifiers and Disqualifiers. I want responses to feel natural, not "Hey, I can take this becausae I have high Perception, hmm...". Since the dialogues you qualify for are not automatic I-win-buttons, there's no point in being informed of them in that way. So if I have extra options, cool, if I don't, I'll never know. And if I'm a smartass that gets myself in trouble, it's because I'm a perceptive smartass, not because I have a perception attribute of 16.

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The [agressive] [diplomatic] tags are quite useful though. I was watching quill18's Let's Play and at some points the dialogue is a bit ambiguous about it's tone.
The same way it is hard to tell sarcasm on the internet without sarcasm tag. Text can't convey the tone that well..


Agreed about attribute checks though.

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The [agressive] [diplomatic] tags are quite useful though. I was watching quill18's Let's Play and at some points the dialogue is a bit ambiguous about it's tone.

The same way it is hard to tell sarcasm on the internet without sarcasm tag. Text can't convey the tone that well..

 

Agreed about attribute checks though.

Oh, I'm absolutely keeping those, especially as a Paladin. The tags are great at showing you the tone of what you're saying and hinting at what your character will be attempting to do by saying that. Like, are you trying to pose a leading question, or is it really just an honest question? Without [clever], how would you know?

 

"You better give me the macguffin." will be a completely different dialogue option whether it's tagged with [aggressive] or [benevolent].

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The [agressive] [diplomatic] tags are quite useful though. I was watching quill18's Let's Play and at some points the dialogue is a bit ambiguous about it's tone.

The same way it is hard to tell sarcasm on the internet without sarcasm tag. Text can't convey the tone that well..

 

Agreed about attribute checks though.

Oh, I'm absolutely keeping those, especially as a Paladin. The tags are great at showing you the tone of what you're saying and hinting at what your character will be attempting to do by saying that. Like, are you trying to pose a leading question, or is it really just an honest question? Without [clever], how would you know?

 

"You better give me the macguffin." will be a completely different dialogue option whether it's tagged with [aggressive] or [benevolent].

 

I was going to turn off the reputation tags just for immersion purposes, but you just convinced me not to.

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