Area looting confirmed

[TheSteadfast]

Ahhh some of you people are nuts with all the nitpicking.  What's worse is pretending to speak for the majority.  This feature is fine.  One of the most tedious things in IE was spending so much time on inventory management.  I tried the EE recently and the Area loot option was convenient even if I was in the habit of not using it.   Unlimited stash is actually a dream for me because I'm a packrat and like holding on to near everything. 

 

This nonsense about needing to know what items came from where is just that.  Hey maybe the magical sword came from the enemy that was using a sword and the robes came from the person wearing robes.  Are you saying it is important for you to know with random enemy had a gem on him?  Important items will logically be on the important enemies.  Wait... did the spider venom sac come from the spider or the wolf?!?  I MUST KNOW. 

[Qbert]

 

I like this feature in the EE's and assuming it is implemented well here, i applaud the decision.

 

If you EE players like it, I will probably be fine with it. How big is the radius?  I guess we do not know this yet.

 

I will say the EE area loot feature is toggleable and has a much greater radius than 3m.  Also i don't have the bb so i can't actually say whether i like the implementation here.

[Tamerlane]

Nerds have the right to form and voice their opinions

See, I thought so too, but the evidence shows...

[Luckmann]

 

 

The IE games had infinite gold for merchants.  I don't recall anybody having a problem with that.

That is beside the point, but what is on the point of your point, is that the IE games also didn't feature an infinite teleport-a-stash that could be accessed from everywhere at any time.

 

 

You said it was a change.  I was saying it was not a change.  Sorry if that was confusing.

 

Yes the infinite inventory is annoying.  I am not looking forward to it filling with junk and me having problems finding things.

 

Ah, sorry, so I did. My intent was to list issues that taken together is, well, an issue, but I see now that I actually do mention it as a change. I apologize.

 

As for the infinite inventory, I'm having horrible flashbacks (which is impressive, considering that I'm playing it right now) of Divinity: Original Sin's inventory, which is rather large, and the messiest piece of garbage I've seen in an RPG so far. Great game, but the way items are sorted and an inventory that you fill up and then have to scroll in is tantamount to clinical insanity.

 

There is literally no reason to ever pass on any kind of loot whatsoever in PoE, which just leads to compulsive hoarding and bulk sales of chaff loot.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Luckmann

[Tartantyco]

 

PoE's radius is 3m. BG was about 1m? 1/2m? Something like that.

Nothing like that.

 

In order to share the same loot window, 2 corpses in the IE games must overlap. They must share the same x and y coordinates. And those are measured in pixels, not... meters, or half meters.

 

I'm just eyeballing it to make a comparison, I'm not writing a thesis here. Enemies that die within a certain area of each other combine their loot. That's a feature of BG2. People are complaining that the area loot in PoE makes it impossible to distinguish what specific body this or that loot came from(Which is just a nonsensical issue), and framing it as an affront to the good name of BG2, when that game has a similar mechanic.

 

The only thing of note that this area loot mechanism does in PoE is avoid having to pixel hunt when several bodies overlap. It does not attack the very foundations of the IE games, nor does it compromise gameplay, it just solves a potential issue and makes it slightly easier to loot bodies that are close to each other.

[Gfted1]

Now we just need a "Sell All" button that ignores quest items.

[Grivenger]

 

It is quite interesting to see the divide between people who a really enamored with the old-style roleplaying game that they can't fathom any change to be good. It is a shame that it isn't optional, but to herald the advent of area-loot as the antichrist is somewhat ridiculous, and extreme. I've recently played through Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and in the progress of playing through IWD, and none of you can convince me you actually like that type of looting, and if you do, I will assume you've only bothered with looting specific enemies and never the trash mobs. 

 

The system is outdated, hasn't aged well, nor badly, but it needed refinements. I am pretty sure Pillars of Eternity will still have the nonsensical encounter balance that the old IE games have, at times. *

 

That said, I am all for optional mechanics.

Well even if ignore the fact that your post is more or less a complete strawman, I want to make it clear that I don't actually mind the idea of "area-loot" that much, provided it works largely like in Wasteland 2, where you still end up looting every individual enemy.

 

However, the overall issue is that this is symptomatic of changes that many of us dislike, and when taking into consideration together with many other changes (infinite inventory, magical stash teleportation, infinigold merchants, etc) it greatly cheapens the game in areas that we'd rather see uncheapened.

 

Again, the logical conclusion of this really is ARPG-like murderhobo assignment of gold coins, because if there is really no point in ever not looting something, and if all that chaff loot is just going to get vendored straight away to the nearest merchant anyway, and if I don't even have to trot over there to pick the stuff up, I really don't even see any point in why I should have to go to the merchant to sell these things, this nameless, faceless loot that is nothing but meat for the gold-grinder.

 

It is not "the antichrist" as you so hyperbolic and strawman-y describe it in an effort to smear those that question the design decisions; it is merely yet another chip off off something great.

 

 

Sorry to see that you felt attacked by it. I wasn't arguing anything, merely questioning how having to click on each individual corpse adds anything to a game. You've already confessed that by judging the screenshot you would skip a lot of the inventory - which I already said what most of the players probably did - rendering the loot graphics as mere clutter on the screen. My post was definitely not a complete strawman, as you tried to show off, because there are certainly some gamers who see things that way. If I was guilty of anything, I was guilty of generalising.

 

I am not trying to smear those who question design decisions, because sometimes a design decision is a bad decision. In the case of area-loot, however, it seems to be just another complaint about how it is not like the IE-games.

 

And yes, I used hyperbole. Isn't that a fair rhetorical strategy? You throw around verisimilitude like it is a word worthy of wielding - it isn't.  And there definitely isn't anything that resembles immersion or authentic to real life about clicking - clicking - individual loot piles, while staring at a cropped window that contains a bunch of sprites. 

[Shiroco]

 

 

No ability to drop items or leave them inside a container in the world once you've taken them.

The stash - welcome to your limitless inventory. Such fun.

 

No ability to make room in your inventory or stock things in a limitless one.

Limitless inventory.

 

Come on mate, at some point you have to pick one thing to hate, disliking both doesn't make that much sense.

 

This is either a very sorry attempt at trolling, or you don't understand what I've written. I call the stash "limitless inventory". I want to be able to put things back in containers if I don't want to keep the things. What part of this didn't you understand?  

 

@10) Everyone is entitled to their opinion and i guess it is ok to dislike the feature even if I myself can't comprehend the reasoning. I will admit that it is true that I myself was anxious to see what the leader of a group carried but (at least for me) the difference between "let's see what the leader had" and "let's see what that encounter had" is pretty small. I defeated the group and I'll get my reward. Clicking every corpse may be closer to PnP rules but I think that this convenience feature won't take much (if any) from the experience away. It would be nice if a toggle is added later but I'm sure that it won't hurt the game if not.

I can understand the complaints about the unlimited stash and that it takes choice away (what to keep, what to not take with you) but I myself almost always took everything with me even if it meant coming back.

Great, that's something CaptainMace can't understand.

 

Of course I agree about several things (no ammo, no pickpocketing, maybe the engagement thing) but those are things that may get included in an expansionpack or a sequel. I'm going to play PoE without a checklist comparing it to the ie games and based upon that rate the game. I'm just going to play it and rate the game based on the "fun" I had with it.

Generally everything I write is an opinion, unless it's obviously a fact (like a "the Earth revolves around the Sun" statement). Just in case though, I usually explicitly state that I'm just giving opinions. Regretfully there are many people on the forum who haven't played the beta much or at all, feel very hyped up, and jump at people's opinions if they are critical of the game. There's a word for such people of course, and I couldn't care less about their opinions. I'm just giving my feedback to the devs. That's what I come for on the forum.

 

If anything, I'm happy we are down to criticizing minor details and features, because I think these are such. If people were criticizing major issues, this would have meant something different about the game as a whole, and probably I would see no point in criticizing anything anyway. From what I see, it's obvious they will release a great game. And part of what makes the difference between a great game and a classic are these minor features that people here spend the time and effort to criticize. My opinion anyway.

 

 

I have to admit that I didn't play the beta that much. Just tried it out a few times and liked the look and feel. Finished the bloodline? quest and did a few other things. So I'm no expert and I'm grateful to sensuki, you and the others who put so much time into testing the beta because I'll be able to play a better game because of it. Still, it sometimes sounds like for example the aoe loot is a make or break thing and not a minor detail. If it is only that then I'm on the same page as you. It would be nice if aoe looting is an option which preferably could be toggled with a hotkey.

[Valmy]

Now we just need a "Sell All" button that ignores quest items.

 

Ok let's not go crazy here.

[h3st]

 

Now we just need a "Sell All" button that ignores quest items.

 

Ok let's not go crazy here.

 

Like area loot, "sell junk" worked fine in Wasteland 2. If you've picked up a lot of badger scrotes and soiled nightclothing, it's fine to press "sell junk" and then un-select whatever junk you want to keep. (I.e. I had my sniper carry around a deck of cards because … well because.)

 

Not sure PoE includes "junk" loot in the same sense though, since I understand there's crafting and stuff involved here. In W2 there's nothing you can do with, say, a badger scrote except carry it for encumbrance or sell it for cash.

[Stun]

This nonsense about needing to know what items came from where is just that.  Hey maybe the magical sword came from the enemy that was using a sword and the robes came from the person wearing robes.

Where did that ring come from? Where did those potions come from? Where did those boots come from? What about that amulet? And the Bracers? or Scrolls?

 

By the way, one of the tactics I use on occasion in BG2 is, in fact, looting during combat. And this is where the meta gaming knowledge that you call "nonsense" makes a huge difference. An under-leveled party (or a soloer) who wants Celestial Fury, would do well to bull-rush Koshi and kill him, then loot Celestial fury off his corpse, then use it in the rest of the encounter.

 

Again, that's meta-knowledge. Clear and obvious to BG2 veterans because BG2 makes you loot individual corpses so that you learn specifically who drops what.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Stun

[Tartantyco]

Which is pretty crap gameplay.

[Valsuelm]

We don't have any current plans to make this optional.

 

Big thumbs down.

 

An even bigger thumbs down if it's true that loot on the ground all looks the same (ie: NWN2), rather than actually appearing to be what it was (as was done in the IE games).

[Mazisky]

To be honest it makes no difference to me if  the radius is small, so i'm ok with this change; I have to say that making things optional is the best way to satisfy all the audience, tho.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Mazisky

[Luckmann]

Which is pretty crap gameplay.

 

You think it's "pretty crap gameplay" to bullrush a dangerous opponent, take his weapon from his corpse as he falls, and then immediately use it to fight his allies?

 

I don't even know what to respond to that, because that's pretty much the best form of emergent gameplay I can imagine. I'm quite literally at a loss for words.

 

 

We don't have any current plans to make this optional.

Big thumbs down.

 

An even bigger thumbs down if it's true that loot on the ground all looks the same (ie: NWN2), rather than actually appearing to be what it was (as was done in the IE games).

 

 

And! Aaaaaand. It shimmers, glitters and shines.

 

Not making this up.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Luckmann

[Gairnulf]

My point was that deciding what to take with you, what to store in containers and what to leave behind is still present in PoE. The only difference is that all the containers presents in safe zones (or wherever) in Baldur's Gate are represented by the stash. Beregost is arguably the party's stash in Baldur's Gate. Kuldahar is the same in IceWind Dale.

What I meant is, there's no need to complain about the stash on one side, and the fact you can't drop and store stuff in random barrels on the other, because they're the same problem. Or it's just about making your list appear bigger.

I understand. But do you really need me to point out the differences in both these cases? I don't think you can compare the stash to a) random containers in the IE games, or b) to "owned" containers. Dropped items or items placed in "public" containers would disappear over the course of some days, unlike items in the stash. As for owned containers, that's not the same thing either, because you have to walk a long distance to that container, so there is still choice about what to pick up from it, and this is a more important choice than what to leave in the stash, because the stash is accessible in more places than the one place the owned container is accessible for. I thought all this was obvious, but I'm describing it anyway.

 

 

I have to admit that I didn't play the beta that much. Just tried it out a few times and liked the look and feel. Finished the bloodline? quest and did a few other things. So I'm no expert and I'm grateful to sensuki, you and the others who put so much time into testing the beta because I'll be able to play a better game because of it. Still, it sometimes sounds like for example the aoe loot is a make or break thing and not a minor detail. If it is only that then I'm on the same page as you. It would be nice if aoe looting is an option which preferably could be toggled with a hotkey.

I can understand that what me and other people make noise about looks like the most idiotic nitpicking in the world for people who have only the big picture in mind. I'm as happy about the game as anyone, and those things like the inventory issues are certainly not a deal breaker for me, as I have explicitly pointed out previously. After hours playing, this is the kind of details I start noticing and commenting about. I think it's natural to do so on the game's forum.

[Tartantyco]

 

Which is pretty crap gameplay.

 

You think it's "pretty crap gameplay" to bullrush a dangerous opponent, take his weapon from his corpse as he falls, and then immediately use it to fight his allies?

 

I don't even know what to respond to that, because that's pretty much the best form of emergent gameplay I can imagine. I'm quite literally at a loss for words.

 

A one-trick pony is not emergent gameplay. Being able to cherry pick one or two "good" uses of something does not outweigh all the possible abuses of it. However, what I was referring to was the metagame requirement. In a world where you have to identify these types of items, planning your strategy on unidentified items is just crap.

[Nonek]

Ah maybe I am overreacting to this area looting, I can certainly see why the team decided to implement it, seeing it as a popular feature of the new alternate editions of BG and IWD. I can't help but retain my distaste for it however, it is to me just a further step on the road to handwaving everything away for the sake of convenience, and Kickstarter was what I hoped would signal a reverse of this harmful trend.

 

However I will simply have to accept it, no game can be tailored to one individuals tastes, and at this point options are obviously rather set in stone and other matters prioritised. I would humbly ask that if possible in a future patch or expansion that we do recieve an option to disable this feature however, but I will not be enormously put out if we do not.

[SunBroSolaire]

infinigold merchants

 

The merchants have infinite gold..?   Why are they making mistakes that both Icewind Dale and Fallout: New Vegas got right?

[Luckmann]

 

 

Which is pretty crap gameplay.

 

You think it's "pretty crap gameplay" to bullrush a dangerous opponent, take his weapon from his corpse as he falls, and then immediately use it to fight his allies?

 

I don't even know what to respond to that, because that's pretty much the best form of emergent gameplay I can imagine. I'm quite literally at a loss for words.

 

[...] does not outweigh all the possible abuses of it. [...]

 

 

What abuse would that be?

[Ted Striker]

I think I speak for a fair majority of the RPGCodex on this topic as well, too.

I want whatever the opposite of this guy is. Just because. 

What's "area looting" again? Like a loot all option in the vicinity that you're in?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Ted Striker

[Gairnulf]

Again, the logical conclusion of this really is ARPG-like murderhobo assignment of gold coins, because if there is really no point in ever not looting something, and if all that chaff loot is just going to get vendored straight away to the nearest merchant anyway, and if I don't even have to trot over there to pick the stuff up, I really don't even see any point in why I should have to go to the merchant to sell these things, this nameless, faceless loot that is nothing but meat for the gold-grinder.

Now we just need a "Sell All" button that ignores quest items.

Stash(aka infinite inventory)+area loot results in exactly this: Open loot container -> Click the "Send all to stash" button, without even looking at the stuff, because hey, limitless inventory! -> go to the merchant -> Cash in the junk. No hassle involved. All thanks to advanced mechanics designed to remove "troublesome" aspects of playing. Like challenge. Or any obstacle to getting so rich that money is not a factor in the game any more.

 

Personally, this makes me feel treated like a retard or a 3-year old: "Look at all the shiny things! Collect them and you get gold!"

 

Merchants with limited gold would have been nice to see but I can understand they aren't there because they weren't there in the IE games. But you know what also wasn't in those games - limitless inventory and area loot weren't.

 

Removing challenge is in effect removing fun from a game. Of course there are players who want no challenge or next to no challenge, but I think they aren't this game's target audience. Please Obsidian, take a moment and consider your motivation for changes like that...

Edited March 14, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Voss]

 

 

Or any obstacle to getting so rich that money is not a factor in the game any more

I can't take this seriously, especially in reference to the IE games.  I just finished another BG play-through the other day and I had 112000 gp, and I was actively skipping stuff toward the end, not looting trash mobs and didn't bother with Werewolf Island at all, or finish up the soultaker storyline.  

Currently, I'm in the midst of BG2 again, and I've only finished about half of Chapter 2 (not windspear, nalias quest, the black dragon, the sewers under the copper coronet, the graveyard, docks, or bridge districts and I've got over 60,000 gp and a half-full inventory, which if actually sold, would net me another 20K, and I've already bought the shield of balduran and the belt of hill giant strength, which were about another 35K to purchase.    

 

Money is rarely an issue in these types of games after the first few levels, even if you're only half-heartedly exploring. 
 

[Azmodiuz]

Do I sense a Change.Org coming to change this ?

 

If we don't do something, soon they will just make it so you get XP/Gold automatically, without any interaction afterwards.

Then might as well make the game side scrolling so we don't get lost and progression can become linear, and then remove choices that are less popular, and just script dialogues for us. Might actually just turn PoE into a movie, why even bother playing it, to get to the end. HBO's Game of Thrones is fun enough to watch, maybe they can scrap PoE altogether and just do that, or whatever else they want.

Clearly they did NOT care about what the backers think, and just created something that is pissing us off, just thinking about.
Maybe its because they technically work for Obsidian, which, can really just publish its own games, and didn't need our money.
They already admitted they struck it big again, and have PoE as another milkable IP
 

Edited March 14, 2015 by Azmodiuz

[Elerond]

 

infinigold merchants

 

The merchants have infinite gold..?   Why are they making mistakes that both Icewind Dale and Fallout: New Vegas got right?

 

 

They had first limited gold for merchants but then people complained it and they changed it to infinite.