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LOL Seriously, the Annah kiss was great... up till she went all toaster hot and pissy over the whole ordeal. Either way she starts off hating you, eventually grows to love you 'if' you go down that path in her conversation. It's not an inevitable outcome, it doesn't always happen. It's a romance, which isn't a bad thing. Not sure why people have an issue with romances or would have an issue classifying Torments as romances.

 

BG2 had more complex ones but PST kinda did it first when you think about it. Also no romances had any effect on the characters in BG2/PST? I call BS. Romancing Viconia can have a dramatic change in the kind of person she is. Annah, again, has a profound ending on her as a person and the ending of the game. Not saying PoE should have them, it's not a part of an RPG that needs to exist (especially if it means losing other things)... but they don't make the game worse for being there.

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Def Con: kills owls dead

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Torment did a good job at making Romance more realistic and believable ?

Torment didn't have romances.

 

 

It had 3 from the top of my head.

 

Oh, if we use the promancer definition of 'romance' it has far more than that. PS:T has about 12 romances.

 

1) Deionarra - She's a ghost (a spectre to be precise. a species of undead) but hey, even necrophilia doesn't matter when there's LOVE.

2) Fall from Grace - A succubus. Last thing out of her mouth is: Don't forget me! (promancers eat that sh*t up. just ask them)

3) Dakkon - the classic Bromance. The game even lets you tell him that your two deaths will be as one (Aaw)

4) Annah - Nice body, sexy...tail. And that Kiss that makes her all hot (literally)

5) Stale Mary - the Zombie. Yes. She's a 'woman' that teaches TNO how to listen. In traditional Promancer terms, this is profound romance material.

6) Yves-tale-chaser - you can spend hours swapping stories with her. Is that not the stereotypical "first date" material in the eyes of the promancers?

7) Ravel - She stalks you throughout the planes? Check. You can pour it on thick with the flirting when you meet her? Check. You can kiss her? Check. You can tell her that you love her? Check. And She reciprocates all these advances? Check!

 

 

And that's just the PC-directed romances. There are, of course, narrative-based 3rd party "romancing" going on all over PS:T (things that love other things)

 

8.) Yves tells you a story about a man who was in love with the Lady of Pain. And how he died with a satisfied smile on his face when she met him and shredded him to ribbons

9) Yves tells you a story about a Modron who fell in love with a...Clock.

10) The woman at the Smoldering Corpse Bar who's in love with Ignus, and eagerly burns to ashes as she embraces him. (again, the promances eat this sh*t up)

11) There are harlots all over the place

12) Morte 'falls in love' with Kamaxi Adder-tongue at the Brothel.

 

C'mon people, this is NOT what the Promancers (or anyone else) mean when they profess their wishes for romances in CRPGs. They only ever cite PS:T because it's such a time-honored classic and they hope that by name-dropping it, it will lend strength to their crap arguments.

Edited by Stun
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Not to consider that videogames business\market now is a lot larger than 15 years ago, this means that an hypothetical Skyrim on 2000 would've sold no more than 2 millions copy

Are you dense?

 

Super Mario Brothers came out in the 80s.... sold 40 million copies.

Sims came out at the same time as BG2.... sold 16 million copies, And it was also a PC exclusive.

 

Hell, we don't even have to leave the elder scrolls. Morrowind came out less than 15 months after BG2.... sold 6 million.

 

So I'll ask again: WHY?

Edited by Stun
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@Gorbag: Hahaha... yeeaaah. It's kinda turned around. Started as a 'hey look some not-really news about PoE, since theres nothing else happening!' into console hate then romance hate and... hey, Joe got to try the game out and was surprised Josh actually knew all the answers to questions. Which isn't common in interviews since it's often some rep person who barely had time to read over a cheat sheet.

Def Con: kills owls dead

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While I am not a huge fan of his style, I have respected Angry Joe's reviews.  I have always found them thoughtful, in depth, and useful.  They are very long and he clearly takes the time to play the game and develop thoughtful opinions on them.  I just have to get past the stuff he feels he needs to do to entertain his audience.  But I care far more about substance than style and Joe has a lot of substance.

 

If he likes it, that is a very good sign in my book.

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Angry joe is a long time RPG fan. I am following him for years and it is obvious he grew up playing baldurs gate like me. He is also a great fan of Bioware and their story based RPG games.

 

I hope he will review this game, he has a large base of devoted fans who buys games based on his reviews. Many gamers don't believe any other reviewers and consider him as one of them (And join his Army on MMOs) .

 

Furthermore any of his reviews are bound to have more than a million views on youtube, so it will help in promoting this game.

Edited by barakav

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An ex-biophysicist but currently Studying Schwarzschild singularities' black holes' Hawking radiation using LAZORS and hypersonic sound wave models.

 

My main objective is to use my results to take over the world!

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Reviews of PoE don't matter me in traditional sense as I have given my money to it already over two years ago, but good reviews mean that there is higher change that game will be commercial success, which would mean that Obsidian probably will make sequel for it or another game in it's style that is placed in Eora. So even though reviews will not in anyway direct how I use my money in consideration of this game they still may have personal impact for me, by heavily influencing how probable it will be that I will get more games from Obsidian in style that I love very much.

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I've watched some of Joe's reviews and although I find his comedic approach unfunny and I think he sometimes tends to favour huge and shiny over involving and interesting, I think he means well and is, in his heart, a fan of classic RPGs. He's not my go-to reviewer, but he's someone I'd like to hear.

Nothing gold can stay.

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If Divinity Original Sin was a s success there is no reason why this game won't.

 

The gaming community is getting older and people are more open for more complicated games.

Edited by barakav

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An ex-biophysicist but currently Studying Schwarzschild singularities' black holes' Hawking radiation using LAZORS and hypersonic sound wave models.

 

My main objective is to use my results to take over the world!

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As far as kickstarter games are concerned, PoE will be a resounding financial success by virtue of the Obsidian name alone. It will Outsell D:OS, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun returns, etc. There are huge swaths of people who know nothing about PoE but will buy it anyway because Obsidian made it. These other games don't have that element going for them.

 

As for reviews... I'm betting reception will be mixed. It already is.

Edited by Stun
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Not to consider that videogames business\market now is a lot larger than 15 years ago, this means that an hypothetical Skyrim on 2000 would've sold no more than 2 millions copy

Are you dense?

 

Super Mario Brothers came out in the 80s.... sold 40 million copies.

Sims came out at the same time as BG2.... sold 16 million copies, And it was also a PC exclusive.

 

Hell, we don't even have to leave the elder scrolls. Morrowind came out less than 15 months after BG2.... sold 6 million.

 

So I'll ask again: WHY?

 

 

First example: most famous ip ever made and calculating over 20 years of time of potential sales...are u serious? Nice comparison

 

Second example: best pc selling game of all time....Nice comparison 

 

Third Example: nice! 6 million copies. Oh, Skyrim, same kind of game but most recent, 20 million...today's market > 15 years ago market

 

GJ man, nice comparisons, u demonstrated i was right, thank you mate

Edited by Mazisky
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First example: most famous ip ever made

Stop.

 

WHY? Why is a simple, casual, very-little-thinking-involved game that appeals to the intellectual capacity of your typical grade school student the most successful franchise in Video Game history?

 

Oh, that's right, because of all the the above. It's simple, there's very little thinking involved, and even the kiddies can master it. Yes, That was my point.... which you and Diogenes continue to miss.

Edited by Stun
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First example: most famous ip ever made

Stop.

 

WHY? Why is a simple, casual, very-little-thinking-involved game that appeals to the intellectual capacity of your typical grade school student the most successful franchise in Video Game history?

 

Oh, that's right, because of all the the above. It's simple, there's very little thinking involved, and even the kiddies can master it. Yes, That was my point.... which you and Diogenes continue to miss.

 

 

It was also because it was one of the first mass maket characters in videogames history and at the same time the pillar of the most succesful genre (platform) for his time.

 

If Supermario was released nowadays it would be ignored cause of how saturated and almost complete is the videogame offer, that was my point. 

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It was also because it was one of the first mass maket characters in videogames history and at the same time the pillar of the most succesful genre (platform) for his time.

Nope. That's a chicken-egg argument. The Game sales is what caused the Mario character to become a house hold name, and what drove the SNES console to become so financially successful.

 

My question is: what caused the game itself to be so popular in the first place? why did it appeal to so many gamers?

 

 

If Supermario was released nowadays it would be ignored cause of how saturated and almost complete is the videogame offer, that was my point.

Good god. Remind me not to hire you as my stock broker. 21st century News flash: Mario games are STILL being released, and STILL selling upwards of 20-30 million each.

Edited by Stun
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It was also because it was one of the first mass maket characters in videogames history and at the same time the pillar of the most succesful genre (platform) for his time.

Nope. That's a chicken-egg argument. The Game sales is what caused the Mario character to become a house hold name, and what drove the SNES console to become so financially successful.

 

My question is: what caused the game itself to be so popular in the first place? why did it appeal to so many gamers?

 

 

If Supermario was released nowadays it would be ignored cause of how saturated and almost complete is the videogame offer, that was my point.

Good god. Remind me not to hire you as my stock broker. 21st century News flash: Mario games are STILL being released, and STILL selling upwards of 20-30 million each.

 

 

Good god. Maybe u need some drawing to understand basic concepts, cause u missed the whole point and trying to make sarcasm only confuses you more.

 

Mario is STILL sellings mostly cause of BRAND NAME and because of FIDELITY to the trademark, gained over years of quality and marketing.

 

I requote myself

 

If Supermario was released nowadays it would be ignored cause of how saturated and almost complete is the videogame offer

 

PS: u can add "as a fresh product" between the words "nowadays" and "it would". Maybe it's easier to understand

Edited by Mazisky
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Also protip: the guy reviews tons of RPG's. Trust me when I say he may look sort of dumb and goofy, and may have a hard time starting out, but he will figure out the mechanics, and he will be just as good at the game once he has a understanding of them as any average "hard core CRPG" fan is likely to be.

I don't hate Joe or anything, but you're talking about the guy who complained endlessly because in Alpha Protocol he kept missing when shooting with a pistol from long distance without realising it was a shor/medium range weapon and that the shooting mechanics relied heavily on stats....

 

Maybe he has improved since then, though.

There's also a good argument to be made that the shooting mechanics in AP were terrible and the presentation of the game gave completely the wrong impression about how much player ability factored in.

 

I thought that the reactivity in that game made it great, I'll never knock someone for criticising the gameplay, it's a pretty much justified complaint.

 

Yes, AP had tons of problems gameplay-wise, and a lot of arguments can be made that put the gameplay to shame, and even when I enjoy its gameplay, I would agree with them.

 

But reaching the right conclusions using wrong arguments don't make your point valid. Joe's review failed to understand the basics mechanics of the game, and thus his critisicsm lacked any actual real meaning.

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^Definately. Whilst Joe's review and even Twitch stream will generate more interest and exposure (a.k.a. marketing/promotional value), aggression will do the opposite.

 

EDIT: Page break, responded to this.

Positive media for PoE from mainstreamey reviewer is a good thing. Agression towards mainstream gamers is not. I'm not arguing its reasons, just saying that agression's a bad thing per se.

All those people going to flow here after PoE's release are in for a nasty surprise *chuckle*

Edited by Osvir
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Stun, his claim was if Mario didn't exist untill this week, the original game was released as is today would barely be a thing. Hes saying imagine a world where Mario doesn't exist, and then... theres Mario all of a sudden, first release ever as if it was on the NES, indie style. Not sure how you haven't gotten that yet.

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Def Con: kills owls dead

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@Stun & Mazisky: I think your discussion fits better in this discussion. But maybe that's just me.

:shrugz:

EDIT: Might as well, I guess *sighs*
 

Stun, his claim was if Mario didn't exist untill this week, the original game was released as is today would barely be a thing. Hes saying imagine a world where Mario doesn't exist, and then... theres Mario all of a sudden, first release ever as if it was on the NES, indie style. Not sure how you haven't gotten that yet.

 

The game industry as we know it wouldn't have existed.

Edited by Osvir
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Stun, his claim was if Mario didn't exist untill this week, the original game was released as is today would barely be a thing. Hes saying imagine a world where Mario doesn't exist, and then... theres Mario all of a sudden, first release ever as if it was on the NES, indie style. Not sure how you haven't gotten that yet.

If that's what he's saying he's comedically wrong. There's a bajillion Mario copy-cat games for Wii and other platforms. The vast majority of them generate ridiculously high sales.

 

And that argument of his is not applicable anyway. his claim was that games didn't sell that well back then.

Edited by Stun
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Stun, his claim was if Mario didn't exist untill this week, the original game was released as is today would barely be a thing. Hes saying imagine a world where Mario doesn't exist, and then... theres Mario all of a sudden, first release ever as if it was on the NES, indie style. Not sure how you haven't gotten that yet.

If that's what he's saying he's comedically wrong. There's a bajillion Mario copy-cat games for Wii and other platforms. The vast majority of them generate ridiculously high sales.

 

 

High sales? Like Mario games or less? Cause if less, i'm right, you're wrong.

 

That's simple

 

Btw i'm sorry for the OT. 

 

I won't answer anymore and i don't care to discuss anymore about it, sorry again.

Edited by Mazisky
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