Build Thread 2.0

[Sarex]

this is absurd

the cheapest price for the red devil 480 8GB in greece is 371 euro when in italy it costs 255.

 

The markup on anything electronic by resellers is beyond stupid. For an example I bought a refrigerator (for a little over 800 euros) and the price difference between the highest and lowest price was almost 300 euros, they all have the same importer. I even managed to drop the price by 50 euro by calling, after I ordered, to say that I found it cheaper at another place, which means that they are still making sizable profit.

 

When I bought my ultrawide monitor there were 2 versions, one with thunderbolt and the other without. Guess which one was more expensive...the one without the thunderbolt. Why? Because it was a model that came out after the one with thunderbolt. This shows how stupid the price markups are and how little sense they make. They will raise the price to whatever the people are willing to pay, and with electronics it goes to another level...

 

Best bet is to by from the importer if you can or through a reseller without a brick and mortar shop.

[Zoraptor]

Does it actually matter what the Greek and Italian price are though? Since it's EU/ single market they're not allowed legally to prevent Greeks from ordering from Italy or vice versa?

 

(We don't even have Powercolour 480s listed here, so far as I can see. Cheapest non ref 480 is cost equivalent to 303 Euros tax inc. Ref 480 is only 10 euro cheaper)

[teknoman2]

Does it actually matter what the Greek and Italian price are though? Since it's EU/ single market they're not allowed legally to prevent Greeks from ordering from Italy or vice versa?

 

(We don't even have Powercolour 480s listed here, so far as I can see. Cheapest non ref 480 is cost equivalent to 303 Euros tax inc. Ref 480 is only 10 euro cheaper)

it would not be illegal even if i were to buy it from a country outside EU. the difference is that if i buy from an EU country i don't have to pay any import tax. hell, if there were no import taxes for it i would buy directly from USA... 255$<255€

Edited August 22, 2016 by teknoman2

[Gorgon]

 

this is absurd

the cheapest price for the red devil 480 8GB in greece is 371 euro when in italy it costs 255.

 

The markup on anything electronic by resellers is beyond stupid. For an example I bought a refrigerator (for a little over 800 euros) and the price difference between the highest and lowest price was almost 300 euros, they all have the same importer. I even managed to drop the price by 50 euro by calling, after I ordered, to say that I found it cheaper at another place, which means that they are still making sizable profit.

 

When I bought my ultrawide monitor there were 2 versions, one with thunderbolt and the other without. Guess which one was more expensive...the one without the thunderbolt. Why? Because it was a model that came out after the one with thunderbolt. This shows how stupid the price markups are and how little sense they make. They will raise the price to whatever the people are willing to pay, and with electronics it goes to another level...

 

Best bet is to by from the importer if you can or through a reseller without a brick and mortar shop.

 

Umm Amazon, Ebay ?

 

In the EU you pay VAT in the country you order from. I dunno if Greece slapped another tax on electronic goods but it's not the norm. I don't understand how prices could vary by that much between EU countries.

[Sarex]

Umm Amazon, Ebay ?

 

In the EU you pay VAT in the country you order from. I dunno if Greece slapped another tax on electronic goods but it's not the norm. I don't understand how prices could vary by that much between EU countries.

 

Serbia is not a EU member so I would have to pay tax and customs. I was talking more about the price difference between retailers in my country. As for Greece, idk.

[kirottu]

Hi guys, I'm building a computer for my brother and his guidelines were "less than 1000e and the more lower you can get it the better, but not something that turns to crap in a year or two". I haven't build a computer in ages, but I'm hoping it's like riding a bike. Here's what I have come up with:

 

Intel i3-6100 processor (121.90€)

MSI H170M-PRO-VDH motherboard (87.90€)

Kingston FURY Memory Black - 8GB Kit* (2x4GB) - DDR4 2133MH ram (35.90€)

Seasonic S12II-520 power source (64.90€)

Sapphire Nitro 480 4gb graphics card (255.90€)

Seagate Barracuda 1-TB hard drive (58.90€)

Asus DVD-R drive (24.90€)

Fractal Design Core 1300 case (50.90€)

Windows 10 (119.90€)

 

With delivery it comes to 830€. Have I made a mistake anywhere? Or is there some other part with better price/performance ratio? Is SSD really that big of a deal?

Edited August 24, 2016 by kirottu

[Bartimaeus]

Is there any way you can skip the 120€ copy of Windows 10? Aren't they still allowing free upgrades from Windows 7/8, or did they finally actually stop that?

 

It's hard for me to recommend anything without seeing your specific store(s). If you can get an equivalent WD Blue HDD, or Hitachi, for the same price, you should probably do that. SSD is kind of a big deal for normal Windows usage...running Windows on an HDD kills that HDD much faster than if you were just using it for storage, and it's so, so much slower. If you can find even like a cheap (40€) 120GB option, I couldn't recommend it enough.

 

The only thing that raises a flag (again, without being able to see where you're purchasing...) is the Seasonic PSU. Yes, Seasonic PSUs are nice...but they're overpriced for what they are, and you're paying extra for the brand (or so I presume). Besides that, I can't say much about the specific parts and their prices - everything seems compatible.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

The only thing that raises a flag (again, without being able to see where you're purchasing...) is the Seasonic PSU. Yes, Seasonic PSUs are nice...but they're overpriced for what they are, and you're paying extra for the brand (or so I presume). Besides that, I can't say much about the specific parts and their prices - everything seems compatible.

 

You are paying for quality.

[Humanoid]

You want this thing to last, you get a proper quad-core. The age of the dual-core gaming machine is over.

 

 

Other than that, hard to say without knowing where you're buying from. I priced a 1500EUR machine for fellow Finn Lord Socks a few pages ago using German stores, so if that's an option for you, here's a sample build (no idea what delivery will be). In terms of the decision-making process, I've changed to the cheapest Skylake quad-core, picked an appropriate motherboard (I think H110 is too bare-bones, and also like having 4 RAM slots for future upgrades), added an SSD, and gone to 16GB RAM. The rest is simply picking the cheapest option offered.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  (€179.92 @ Mindfactory)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B150M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  (€73.10 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  (€57.37 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Sandisk X400 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  (€79.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (€52.77 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 470 4GB Video Card  (€215.84 @ Mindfactory)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1300 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  (€48.49 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Cooler Master GM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  (€59.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer  (€14.59 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  (€101.52 @ Mindfactory)
Total: €883.48
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-08-24 13:59 CEST+0200

 

 

Some notes:

- It may be possible to get a cheaper Haswell platform, if you choose to go that way you'd go something like i5-4460 + B85 board + DDR3. On the other hand upgrading to a 6500 is a decent idea too because it's got a sizable clock speed advantage.

 

- The B150 chipset is theoretically aimed at business workstations. In reality though, the only advantage the costlier H170 gives you is more PCI-E lanes, which is only relevant for Crossfire.

 

- Some games like fast RAM, but unfortunately Intel has locked all platforms except Z170 to the basic 2133MHz stuff. You can still get slightly faster RAM by looking for lower latency (CL13 instead of the CL15 on the cheapest stuff) if desired.

 

- You can save a few bucks on a non-M.2 SSD, but the X400 is one of the better TLC SSDs, and M.2 is neat (it's a thumb-sized SSD that plugs straight into the motherboard, instead of having to mess with mounting a 2.5" drive and messing with SATA cables).

 

- Only really picked the CoolerMaster G450M over other options because it's the most affordable PSU that has modular cables while still being a good PSU in general. Can you tell I hate messing with cable routing?

 

- You could try your luck for the OS on the microsoftsoftwareswap subreddit. Legally it's a grey place, I suspect most of the keys being sold are TechNet keys which are generated by subscribers. The generation itself is legitimate, but they're meant to be for personal use of whoever holds the subscription, not for reselling. But for $20 a copy, I know plenty of people are happy to take the plunge, and if MS deactivates the key a couple of years down the track, then eh, spend another $20 and you're still ahead.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Humanoid

[Bartimaeus]

- You could try your luck for the OS on the microsoftsoftwareswap subreddit. Legally it's a grey place, I suspect most of the keys being sold are TechNet keys which are generated by subscribers. The generation itself is legitimate, but they're meant to be for personal use of whoever holds the subscription, not for reselling. But for $20 a copy, I know plenty of people are happy to take the plunge, and if MS deactivates the key a couple of years down the track, then eh, spend another $20 and you're still ahead.

 

Heh.

 

The biggest negative about that power supply is that it uses mixed capacitors, some of good quality, some of average, and some of low. Though the warranty is 5 years (2 years longer than the Seasonic), you ideally want it to actually last at least that, and those capacitors are a definite concern. I would pay the extra 5 Euros between the two for the Seasonic...but I'd probably consider other options first, depending on availability of other PSUs (the Rosewill Hive*, for example, would be an all around better option than the Cooler Master).

 

*But this probably isn't available outside of the U.S., and if it was, the price probably isn't that much different from the Seasonic, so again...

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Humanoid]

I haven't done much research lately, really this is from when I was building a PC for my sister at the start of the year. Ended up going for a G550M. I usually use JonnyGuru for PSU reviews but they haven't reviewed the CoolerMaster or the directly competing Corsair CX450M, however both are well-regarded on their forums.

 

There's a Seasonic G450 for 20EUR more if going for the premium option, but at the basic level I can't really go past the above two options. Doing a search now and the CM is quieter while the Corsair might have theoretically better caps. I'm of the opinion that it'd take some extremely bad luck to have either fail, whereas quietness is something that affects the day-to-day user experience, so I'd plump for the CM.

 

P.S. The SII and MII from Seasonic are from last decade and while they're still serviceable, it's probably time to put those designs out to pasture.

 

 

EDIT: Both the CM and the Corsair are made by Channelwell, so it's a bit of a muchness anyway, there is no wrong decision between the two.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Humanoid

[Bartimaeus]

I am pretty sure they're different platforms, though. I agree with the end conclusion, however - there's not that much of a difference between the two, and they're both 'merely' fine. I wouldn't want to put either into a serious build would be my issue - even though you're right about the Seasonic unit being older (...I'm actually rather surprised it's still being sold at this point), I would feel more comfortable with it than either the Cooler Master or Corsair units. The Cooler Master unit has build problems while the Corsair unit has quality control issues - not deal-breakers in a vacuum, but I would be hesitant to put either of them into someone else's main PC.

 

I'm happy I was able to get an FSP Aurum 500W for a mere $20 new off of Amazon (no rebates, either) back when I built my PC. Even with its mild age, it's pretty hard to beat that.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Bokishi]

My last coolermaster psu started killing hardrives randomly. Currently going with Corsair now

[kirottu]

With your suggestions I made the following changes:

 

Motherboard chipset was changed to B150. Hard drive was changed to Western Digital Blue. Power source was changed to Coolermaster G550M. Also found the same DVD drive for bit cheaper and Win10 for only 102€(whee!). The whole price dropped to 812€ so there is definitely room for a SSD or an i5.

 

I'm not sure about ordering stuff from a other country. It seems bit awkward for warranty. Sending stuff takes a while and there might be language problems. Still, I do have faith in germans when it comes to packaging and transporting things.

 

Another question: My parents bought a computer about year ago, and if my memory serves, it came with both Win7 and Win8 dvds. They had Win7 installed and accidentally upgraded it to Win10. Does this mean they have a free Win8 left? Or is it somehow pre-locked to their computer or something?

Edited August 24, 2016 by kirottu

[Bartimaeus]

@Bokishi:

 

I mean, without knowing the actual OEMs involved, neither a generic "Cooler Master" nor a generic "Corsair" are much of use in deciding what to do (since neither of these two make their own power supplies).

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[kirottu]

My last coolermaster psu started killing hardrives randomly. Currently going with Corsair now

Maybe they didn't deserve to live.

[Bokishi]

@Bokishi:

 

I mean, without knowing the actual OEMs involved, neither a generic "Cooler Master" nor a generic "Corsair" are much of use in deciding what to do (since neither of these two make their own power supplies).

Just get a psu that's platinum certified and Japanese capacitors, and hope for the best

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, I'll be sure to do that with my

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Bokishi]

From experience, you can go cheap on hdds, ram, and even motherboards just fine. But going with a cheap psu is high risk because that thing can wreck your system if it decides to have a bad day

[Gorgon]

Is the I3 really viable for a gaming PC. I thought the point of those was mostly that they didn't draw very much power. 

[Bartimaeus]

From experience, you can go cheap on hdds, ram, and even motherboards just fine. But going with a cheap psu is high risk because that thing can wreck your system if it decides to have a bad day

 

When I think of a "cheap" PSU, I think of a decently reviewed bronze-rated ~500W PSU that will almost certainly last you 5+ years as long as you aren't pushing it to its full wattage, which, if you're using an Intel CPU and a single GPU setup, you never will. It's not like we're looking at Cougar or Kingwin or Raidmax garbage, which is probably what most casual buyers would look to when thinking of "cheap": these are still halfway decent units. They're not $20 off-brand pieces of junk.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[kirottu]

Is the I3 really viable for a gaming PC. I thought the point of those was mostly that they didn't draw very much power.

Yes. You can see that the difference between i3-6100 and i3-6500 is merely few frames in those games at least. I do agree with Humanoid that i5 is more future proof, but, still, 80€ for just couple of frames now is a lot.

Edited August 24, 2016 by kirottu

[Humanoid]

Another question: My parents bought a computer about year ago, and if my memory serves, it came with both Win7 and Win8 dvds. They had Win7 installed and accidentally upgraded it to Win10. Does this mean they have a free Win8 left? Or is it somehow pre-locked to their computer or something?

 

The DVDs by themselves are not relevant, as the ISOs are freely downloadable (or at least they were, MS make you jump through some hoops now to get them). The important thing is whether they came with separate licence keys. It seems unlikely to me, as there's no reason for anyone to give them to you.

 

More likely what happened is that Win8 Pro came with downgrade rights, because a lot of businesses still required Win7. Therefore MS made it possible to install Win7 with the Win8 Pro key.

[Humanoid]

Is the I3 really viable for a gaming PC. I thought the point of those was mostly that they didn't draw very much power. 

 

Depends on the individual game. Some still can't use more than two cores, but the proportion of those which can is increasing so anyone planning to keep their machine for 5+ years should be looking at a quad-core.

[Bokishi]

I've been working with large imagery lately and I noticed when stitching together 10 gigapixel images to make 30 gigapixel images, my 32gb ram gets used up in 30 seconds, and then my swap file blows up to 200gb. It then gets the job done in a few hours. Is it still worth it to upgrade to 64gb ram if all it will do is bring swap file usage down to 170gb?