Suggestions for the Solid UI

[Karkarov]

 

 

We don't actually know that yet, do we?

We've known that since 2013 actually.

Really? Have you been prescient since 2013?

Sensuki is quite right.  There have UI threads out the yin yang on these forums over the years and he and I have butted heads in them many times.  It is possible we are the two most vocal about various UI stuff on this forum in fact.  But some time ago Sawyer basically laid down the law and made certain things crystal clear about their design goals with the UI and what they would and would not do with it.  One of the things he was very adamant on was a bottom bar UI and that there would be no L shape UI or sidebar UI.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Karkarov

[Hassat Hunter]

PS:T had bad UI, IWD2 had bad UI, PoE will *have* bad UI? Doesn't Obsidian learn?

 

And I'm pretty sure many things changed since 2013, or is that backer beta still exactly the same as at the start since 'obviously we can't change stuff since 2013'?

 

After all I'm pretty sure we weren't getting solid either... and hey, they're making exactly that now.

[Sensuki]

Nah they've always said they'd do a Solid UI

[Ineth]

Growing up in the 80s I've watched many TV shows and movies in 4:3 format. It was not, and is not painful at all.

 

Back then we were used to it, and we didn't know anything better. (Like people in the 19th century considered traveling by horse-drawn carriage on bumpy roads a super convenient and luxurious mode of transportation, yet nowadays few people would want to give up their car to go back to that.)

 

Try to rewatch one of those 4:3 shows today, on a modern widescreen monitor - it feels as if you're looking at the scene from the outside through a frame that is artificially blocking your peripheral vision and preventing you from getting a full view.

 

I think you can make a much better case for movies being short that video games. [...]

The situation in a top-down game is entirely different, [...]

 

But PoE is not a top-down game, it's an isometric one - and with a much lower camera angle than the Infinity Engines games btw. (at least in outdoors areas).

 

This means that the vertical dimension is much more condensed than the horizontal one, so you need more horizontal space than vertical to show the same amount of content in each direction.

 

And that does not yet account for the fact that you'll want to show more horizontal than vertical content in one scene because that's how human eyes are aligned and are optimized at seeing at a glance without having to move.

[Ineth]

[screenshot]

 

As much as I don't care for floaty stuff, I like this more than the PoE screenshots. Simply having the characters in an eyeview rather than at the bottom is a major boon all by itself. Get rid of the map (don't need it onscreen in a IE-game), the top icons (no turnbased), just move the characters more to the side... and have a sleek bottom bar...

 

Yeah, I think that would do fine, more so than a humongeous bottom bar where I have to make my eyes go down all the time to check my people's status rather than just in a human's periphial vision.

 

Fair enough.

Though I think it only works well there because of the floaty-ness, since it allows the game scene to stretch to the full screen width, despite the portraits there.

[Ineth]

Also; I am wondering how exactly a Solid UI should be modular? Solid framework with tradeable interior? (which thus has limitations based on the framework) Cause I can't see any other way that wont look absolutely horrible as result.

 

By making the borders around UI blocks

1. automatically adapt to the length of the block
2. automatically adapt to what's on the other side of the border (another UI block, or the viewport edge).

To implement this they would either have to draw a small number of stretchable or seamlessly tileable border elements and dynamically replicate them all over (less work for designers, more work for devs) or simply draw all possible border combinations for the possible block configurations (more work for designers, less work for devs).

 

It would require them to put a little thought into it in advance, and the designers and devs would have to be able to work together, but it's not rocket science.

 

In fact it's not unlike the kind of work webdesigners often do.

[Lord Wafflebum]

2012.

Muad'Dib!

[Sensuki]

Try to rewatch one of those 4:3 shows today, on a modern widescreen monitor - it feels as if you're looking at the scene from the outside through a frame that is artificially blocking your peripheral vision and preventing you from getting a full view.

That's only because the screen is too small. If you were watching a 4:3 screen that was as wide as your PC monitor but taller, it would look way better than 16:9 IMO.

 

I have a 22" LaCie ElectronView III CRT monitor, and it's pretty good for 4:3 games and 4:3 media content (such as The Wire).

Edited January 31, 2015 by Sensuki

[constantine]

One more vote for combat log in the centre.

 

(honestly I cannot understand how designers can play the game will the log to right)

[Luckmann]

 

Try to rewatch one of those 4:3 shows today, on a modern widescreen monitor - it feels as if you're looking at the scene from the outside through a frame that is artificially blocking your peripheral vision and preventing you from getting a full view.

That's only because the screen is too small. If you were watching a 4:3 screen that was as wide as your PC monitor but taller, it would look way better than 16:9 IMO.

 

I have a 22" LaCie Electron View III CRT monitor, and it's pretty good for 4:3 games and 4:3 media content (such as The Wire).

 

 

But why?

[Hassat Hunter]

I've plenty of old shows on DVD's which are 4:3 and I watch on my current widescreen monitor.

 

The only thing that pains the eyes are their CGI effects.

[vv221]

 

That's only because the screen is too small. If you were watching a 4:3 screen that was as wide as your PC monitor but taller, it would look way better than 16:9 IMO.

 

I have a 22" LaCie Electron View III CRT monitor, and it's pretty good for 4:3 games and 4:3 media content (such as The Wire).

 

But why?

 

If you play a lot of "old" games supporting only 4:3/4:5 resolution, it’s far more comfortable to play them with a square screen than a wide one.

My screen native resolution is 1280x1024, because most of my games are from that era and don’t look good on wide screens, even with mods (old IE games are a good example).

I would be pretty pissed off if PoE were designed to look good on 16:9/16:10 only.

 

I don’t keep this screen for gaming nostalgia only: Web browsing, office work, all this kind of stuff implying long texts are far easier to do on a square screen.

You just can’t read text stretched on too wide an area, so all of this extra horizontal space is kind of wasted.

[Luckmann]

 

 

That's only because the screen is too small. If you were watching a 4:3 screen that was as wide as your PC monitor but taller, it would look way better than 16:9 IMO.

 

I have a 22" LaCie Electron View III CRT monitor, and it's pretty good for 4:3 games and 4:3 media content (such as The Wire).

 

But why?

 

If you play a lot of "old" games supporting only 4:3/4:5 resolution, it’s far more comfortable to play them with a square screen than a wide one.

My screen native resolution is 1280x1024, because most of my games are from that era and don’t look good on wide screens, even with mods (old IE games are a good example).

I would be pretty pissed off if PoE were designed to look good on 16:9/16:10 only.

 

I don’t keep this screen for gaming nostalgia only: Web browsing, office work, all this kind of stuff implying long texts are far easier to do on a square screen.

You just can’t read text stretched on too wide an area, so all of this extra horizontal space is kind of wasted.

 

 

But... why?

 

I play 4:3-games on my own widescreen just fine, it's not like it stretches it or anything; all you end up with is black borders at the sides where you wouldn't have any monitor either way, so to say. The same goes for reading; there's extremely few sites that stretches text clear across the screen, there's a reason it's usually condensed to 1/3-2/3 of the screen, centred.

 

I remember the old CRT monitors. I can't even look at one of them anymore without my eyeballs wanting to creep out through my ears and stab me in the back while I'm not looking.

[Karkarov]

But... why?

Why ask why?  Bud Dry.

 

Seriously it is a gaming nostalgia thing for them.  No 20 inch CRT from 10-15 years ago has as good a monitor as what can be purchased today.  They just don't want to (gasp!) use a widescreen mod or stretch the image to fit.  I guess the black bars you mention are also somehow offensive .

Edited February 1, 2015 by Karkarov

[Sensuki]

They do serve a function - you can play an old game at native resolution at a high refresh rate, with no input lag / image stretching or anything like that. Not to mention full color depth, and deep blacks.

[Gairnulf]

 

But that initial screen grab just looks...so drab. The smooth minimalist design replaced what are essentially slabs of wood

 

That's a quick, inital mock up. It is far from representative of the final artistic style.

 

I was reminded of that comment because it looks so funny now that the new build is out:

 

This is a personal opinion but I like my mockups better:

 

Of course, what we have is still better than no solid background at all.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Uomoz]

Thats a very cool mockup! I like it a lot

[Luckmann]

It's crazy how much better Gairnulf's mockup locks.

[Hassat Hunter]

I really hope that's not the final version...

Sure, it beats the floaty stuff, but not by a whole lot :/

[Cluas]

I vote Gairnulf 

[Rostere]

 

 

But that initial screen grab just looks...so drab. The smooth minimalist design replaced what are essentially slabs of wood

 

That's a quick, inital mock up. It is far from representative of the final artistic style.

 

I was reminded of that comment because it looks so funny now that the new build is out:

 

This is a personal opinion but I like my mockups better:

 

Of course, what we have is still better than no solid background at all.

 

I guess this is pretty much as good as it gets with a "bottom bar" UI. Great job!

[Ashen Rohk]

To be fair, it doesn't look as bad as I expected it to. Not by a long stretch.

 

Rostere, got a mockup with a full party and/or with spaces for absent party slots?

[Luckmann]

There really was only one really consistent request; centred combat log. And still.. there it is. Combat log right in the middle of the worst possible place it could be.

[Grotesque]

 

are rocks with moss solid enough for you?

 

full resolution here

Edited February 4, 2015 by Grotesque

[BlueLion]

 

are rocks with moss solid enough for you?

 

full resolution here

 

I strongly dislike this UI style. So much space taken up by the UI 'frame'. I urge Obsidian to stay away from this and stick to just the bottom bar but add a touch of flair and style.