PrimeJunta Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 They made a really bad choice when they picked an engine if they picked an engine that limits them in a way they can't populate a city to the density we saw in BG1 or BG2. That said, I very much doubt the engine is an issue. What do you think is the issue then? Other than the usual "Josh is mean and just does this as a personal affront to moi" one that is. 1 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Rumsteak Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Also can someone kindly update me on the lingo here? What exactly is a PNJ? Probably NPC in Spanish. (Personaje No Jugador). Or "Personnage Non Joueur" in French. The OP meant NPC but forgot to translate from his native language. Edited January 17, 2015 by Rumsteak 1
Luckmann Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 They made a really bad choice when they picked an engine if they picked an engine that limits them in a way they can't populate a city to the density we saw in BG1 or BG2. That said, I very much doubt the engine is an issue. What do you think is the issue then? Other than the usual "Josh is mean and just does this as a personal affront to moi" one that is. They made a really bad choice when they picked an engine if they picked an engine that limits them in a way they can't populate a city to the density we saw in BG1 or BG2. That said, I very much doubt the engine is an issue. What do you think is the issue then? Other than the usual "Josh is mean and just does this as a personal affront to moi" one that is. It really doesn't have to be anything other than them wanting to limit the number of actors in an area for the benefit of lower-end computers. I think that's a pretty bad reason, and I say that as one of the users of those lower-end computers. I'd personally have choppy cities that will run well when I get a better computer, then have them forever devoid of life. I sincerely doubt that it's an engine limitation in any way. That being said, I really didn't feel that they seemed that empty or devoid of life. Like Stun and others, I noticed the lack of background ambience, but I really think that that is something that just hasn't made it into the game yet (or haven't been adjusted) similar to how the crickets just made it into the game. Let's not pretend that BG1/BG2 had tons of actors in the cities, they really didn't. However, those cities (at least Athkatla) were more "dirty", and they should work on that if they still can. Bring the scenery more to life with mud, broken cartwheels hanging against the walls, and things like that. It's hard to really judge from the stream, though. We actually saw very little. 1
Starwars Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 I also didn't really feel that there were very few NPCs necessarily, but I do think the city looked too clean overall. Who knows, maybe Defiance Bay have a solid working force on keeping the city pristine. But yeah, everything felt a bit too wide (streets, areas and such) and a bit too clean. 1 Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0
cloudpm Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Actually I would like to be able to edit my first post to change "PNJ" which is the acronym for NPC in French but can't find the option. I can do it for this one but for the 1st one... None... To come back to the topic, if we watch : A. this video at the Gamescom 2014, we can clearly hear that there are indeed ambient sounds (birds etc...) : www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoyrKRoknp4 B. for those who missed it : the most recent stream from Josh 2 days ago was here : http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/b/611493909 I just don't know why somehow during the streaming of 2 days ago, we couldn't hear anything. And to come back to the topic, yes, sorry to insist on that but the cities are way to empty : I took some in-game screenshots (not the ones published by obsidian showing just the architectures). A small "remark" : I do not know at what phase of development were the screenshots taken. Here is randomly a screenshot I took from the latest stream 2 days ago : http://static.mnium.org/images/contenu/actus/JeuxVideo/Kickstarter/POE_2.jpg Compared to a Baldur's Gate II (blue circles) or even Divinity : Edited January 17, 2015 by cloudpm 1
BlueLion Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 In the leads meeting they mentioned that all the sounds had been set at the same level to be balanced individually. I'm guessing that the levels haven't been balanced correctly YET. Combine that with the sound balancing that the stream settings would do automatically and we have a very lifeless sounding stream. However, I'm sure they will be changing this in the next few weeks and we will all be much more happy in the near future.
Starwars Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 There have been bugs in recent betas also pertaining to sounds. Crickets in the middle of the day, music not playing when it should etc. I wouldn't worry too much about the sound as of yet as it seems that's what they're gonna dig into right now. Listen to my home-made recordings (some original songs, some not): http://www.youtube.c...low=grid&view=0
Luckmann Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Showing Dyrford is a big disingenuous to the discussion, though. It's meant to be a (or at least looks like it's meant to be) a small town, and I think it has an appropriate amount of people just hanging around. The one image from PoE that is from one of the major cities shows a very small area that is very zoomed in.I do agree that it seems a bit empty to a degree, but at the same time, they shouldn't place people on principle, and have them congregate or walk around where it makes sense. I'm just hesitant to make a call one way or another, because we've actually seen very little. 1
BlueLion Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Plus, the town show in the middle of the stream (the name eludes me) is quite empty due to the storyline. The tree has a crazy ton of people hanging from it, dead. This is bound to reduce the population somewhat. So maybe there's more story influences to these decisions than we realise.
Stun Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 And.... I know this doesn't count, but in the stream, the building interiors, at least, have a crap ton of people inside them. 2
cloudpm Posted January 17, 2015 Author Posted January 17, 2015 This is good news then ! Again, I am not here to criticize the game. On the contrary, I just cannot wait for it... So good things if there's a storyline etc... explaining the reasons. As I said previously on the post showing the screens, I do not know at what development phase were taken the screen (so might not be representative) but, if the game is in that state : no storyline for this emptyness, that would be a real issue. 1
Sedrefilos Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Was divinity developed on unity? If yes the towns are not that empty. If Some Guy From larian studio can do it, why wouldnt obsidian ? Sorry, writing from the phone and somehow everything is messy. Divinity was developed on a Larian home engine designed for that game specificly.
Nonek Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 The games inspiration is worth mentioning: Larian's Divinity series is quite openly inspired by Ultima, which featured a living world with perhaps the best implementation of a city ever created in Britain. With NPC's who worked, played, prayed, slept and travelled in between these occupations, totally independent of the player character. It was easy to become lost in such a locale, as with Vizima in the first Witcher, a similarly huge and bustling city. Not to excuse Poe but it is based on the IE games, and these did not have such an in depth and living game world. There have been several threads asking for such features over the last few years but Obsidian have been honest, and openly stated that though nice to have this is not a priority for the game they are creating. Thus a little ambience and small amount of bustle as was present seems proper to me, I do not expect the clamour of Athkatla let alone Sigil. Defiance Bay is a pioneer city by the sounds of it, not a vast metropolis, nor a crossroads for all the planes of a multiverse. 1 Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Maybe it's really cold outside and no one wants to loiter in the cold. Also, maybe the streets are clean because they have street sweepers?
BlueLion Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Ultimately, NPC routines would add to the immersion but it's something I'm quite happy for them to omit to meet the March 26 deadline.
Stun Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Maybe it's really cold outside and no one wants to loiter in the cold.Or maybe Defiance Bay just suffered one of those purple wind things, and everyone's still inside. You did notice how crowded the tavern was, yes? Edited January 17, 2015 by Stun 1
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Either way, I think we agree that empty(ish) streets don't necessarily mean developer laziness/engine limitations/Josh Sawyer hates us/Illuminati conspiracy. There are a myriad of reasons for why something might be the way it is. It's easier to become hyperbolic and freak out because something isn't how you want it, but sometimes things are the way they are for a reason and taking 30 seconds to reflect on that allows these forums to not be BSN.
Falkon Swiftblade Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I also noticed how all the character's feel glued to the map. I wish there was some AI patrolling in there, and more props. It is kinda dumb to have a bunch of monster's standing in an empty room guarding nothing. There's missing narrative of why things are where they are. The folks in the city feel very samey and out of context. Thing's seem to slowly be improving over time compared to last year, but it's like a crawl to the finish. I could understand if the game is as huge as they say it is. Although, I'm not as impressed so far as how big the game is versus content per area. Thing's feel either too sparse, or too template and grid like. I hope they can triple their efforts to add some variety in the fight's, animations, and idle state's before it ships. Although, it certainly prettier than I anticipated and it looks like they finally decided to scale up the models a little more compared to the stuff they showed off originally which makes them not look like micro machine soldiers at least. PS what is a PNJ? Edited January 17, 2015 by Falkon Swiftblade 1
Lord Wafflebum Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 PS what is a PNJ? Lol, didn't read any of the rest of the thread, huh? It's another acronym for NPC, assuming you don't translate it from it's french origin first. 1
Yonjuro Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Also can someone kindly update me on the lingo here? What exactly is a PNJ? Probably NPC in Spanish. (Personaje No Jugador). Or "Personnage Non Joueur" in French. The OP meant NPC but forgot to translate from his native language. Very good. We should all start using that acronym - it seems more universal. I'll start: So, Minsc was one one of my favorite recruitable PNJs in BG....
Falkon Swiftblade Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 PS what is a PNJ? Lol, didn't read any of the rest of the thread, huh? It's another acronym for NPC, assuming you don't translate it from it's french origin first. i skipped page 2!! thx though!
GreyFox Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Yea the interiors that I saw did have people inside at what looks to be an appropriate amount...appropriate meaning "not lifeless" in this case.
Stun Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I'll start: So, Minsc was one one of my favorite recruitable PNJs in BG....Minsc is one of the worst PNJ's in BG. He's a complete POS. I usually tell him to GTFO, ASAP. Edit: LOL. Edited January 18, 2015 by Stun 1
Bli1942 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I think the cities need a bit more going on, a few domestic animals here and there, more ambient noises, more random peasants and guards...also some of the sound effects sound terrible, like the crickets in the night scene from the long stream. I would have to turn the volume off if I spent more than 20 seconds out there. Same thing with the birds in the backer beta. Hopefully audio is something they're working on late and most of the sounds we heard are just placeholder. Then when there's some good sounds they are often incorrect levels. You have to turn up the effects master to hear the ambient sounds inside a building say, but when you go back outside the sounds are way too loud and you have to adjust the master again. Definitely need some consistency of sound level between all the areas Also find it awkward how there's someone playing the music in the inn but they're not even holding an instrument...and no NPC's are sitting at the tables, all just standing around. I haven't played it for a while so not sure if that's changed. Edited January 18, 2015 by Bli1942 2
archangel979 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 I'll start: So, Minsc was one one of my favorite recruitable PNJs in BG....Minsc is one of the worst PNJ's in BG. He's a complete POS. I usually tell him to GTFO, ASAP. Edit: LOL. I think you are in minority. Almost everyone likes Minsc and as result he is a official character in D&D lore. 2
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