Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Gorth]

Start of old thread

End of old thread

 

Even Zzap64 had some rather questionable reviews when the big publishers games got released...

[TrashMan]

I'll just re-post here then

 

 

SJW's getting REKKED:

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/13/the-waronnerds-how-far-left-feminists-and-the-media-created-gamergate/

 

http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/gamergate-exposed-a-peek-inside-and-how-i-went-native/

 

 

 

Also, a crazy SJW getting ultra-super-platnium mad.

https://archive.today/W2kyB#selection-1115.1-1115.109

 

 

 

 

In other news, GG discusses starting up TWATTER, a un-censored version of Twitter.

 

 

 

It's a good day to be alive.

[TrashMan]

 

>Socialism in the Soviet Union had liberated women from their own biology which was sexist towards them by dehumanizing them into ‘ baby incubators’

>Abortions were not only free and provided by the state but it was encouraged and a sign of progressiveness, because by having an abortion a woman showed that she could contribute more to society by being able to do real work than being a burden on society

 

[Zoraptor]

Also, a crazy SJW getting ultra-super-platnium mad.

https://archive.today/W2kyB#selection-1115.1-1115.109

 

The abridged version is better, for the comment immediately after (about 2/3 of the way down, some naughty words because Mr Tait is a bit uncouth and has a slight case of potty mouth).

[Fighter]

On the subject of sexism in games. Been listening to Co-Optional podcast and according to TB quoting Blizzard statistics (haven't seen the quotes myself yet) the sexiest characters are vastly the most popular ones amongst their female gamers and the less sexy ones are least played, this goes for WoW and LoL. What a surprise then designers would keep making what people want to be playing.

 

But yeah cis white males are the devil and all that...

 

[Blarghagh]

Oh, you can listen to them afterwards? I thought the co-optional podcasts were live only since they don't show up on TB's channel. Anyway, let's stop acknowledging that Tait character. He's a lunatic and he's also not adressing any of us since we're not about keeping women out of the industry, and I've made a point in these threads before how his attitude does that much more easily than any of us could.

Edited November 14, 2014 by TrueNeutral

[Fighter]

Oh, you can listen to them afterwards? I thought the co-optional podcasts were live only since they don't show up on TB's channel. Anyway, let's stop acknowledging that Tait character. He's a lunatic and he's also not adressing any of us since we're not about keeping women out of the industry, and I've made a point in these threads before how his attitude does that much more easily than any of us could.

 

They are on TB's youtube channel two-three days after. Here is the playlist:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFE010B0EEA9E5F06

[Drowsy Emperor]

Storm in a teacup really

 

I take it as a good sign regarding my mental health that I don't understand half of these ridiculous discussions

Edited November 14, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On the subject of sexism in games. Been listening to Co-Optional podcast and according to TB quoting Blizzard statistics (haven't seen the quotes myself yet) the sexiest characters are vastly the most popular ones amongst their female gamers and the less sexy ones are least played, this goes for WoW and LoL. What a surprise then designers would keep making what people want to be playing.

 

But yeah cis white males are the devil and all that...

 

 

 

In my personal experience, most women I know well prefer to try and look attractive. Most don't walk around in skimpy clothing(unfortunately) but they do spend some effort keeping in shape, taking care of hygine, and dressing themselves. I suppose some would say this is because of internalized misogyny, which is code for "acting in a way I find inappropriate", but I doubt that is the case. We should be celebrating the human body, not pretending it is something vile that needs to be covered up.

[kirottu]

Storm in a teacup really

 

I take it as a good sign regarding my mental health that I don't understand half of these ridiculous discussions

It's only ridiculous if you are not a tea drinker.

Edited November 14, 2014 by kirottu

[Blarghagh]

On the subject of sexism in games. Been listening to Co-Optional podcast and according to TB quoting Blizzard statistics (haven't seen the quotes myself yet) the sexiest characters are vastly the most popular ones amongst their female gamers and the less sexy ones are least played, this goes for WoW and LoL. What a surprise then designers would keep making what people want to be playing.

 

Listening to this now and it's really interesting. I'd like to see some numbers but if that's true, it pretty much comes down to "a female player, when given the option, will most often play the most idealized, 'sexy' babe". Anyone have any sources for this? I would really love to see some hard data on what female players pick. Of course, people will just point out "internalized misogyny" or something but still.

[Meshugger]

 

On the subject of sexism in games. Been listening to Co-Optional podcast and according to TB quoting Blizzard statistics (haven't seen the quotes myself yet) the sexiest characters are vastly the most popular ones amongst their female gamers and the less sexy ones are least played, this goes for WoW and LoL. What a surprise then designers would keep making what people want to be playing.

 

Listening to this now and it's really interesting. I'd like to see some numbers but if that's true, it pretty much comes down to "a female player, when given the option, will most often play the most idealized, 'sexy' babe". Anyone have any sources for this? I would really love to see some hard data on what female players pick. Of course, people will just point out "internalized misogyny" or something but still.

 

 

Yeah, i would like to see that as well.

 

Try switching the tables a bit about "internalized misogyny". Lets say that men like to play big, bulky, muscular men because of their internal misandry. But they don't....why then it has to be only women that have internalized misogyny, but that in turn is sexist.

 

So either the phrase "internalized misogyny" is sexist in itself, or it is completely BS. Back to the drawing board, my dear SJWs.

[Keyrock]

I can only speak for myself as a male, but it seems perfectly natural to me that when engaging in a fantasy role playing scenario (I don't just mean role playing games here) most would naturally gravitate toward playing a highly idealized character, though I do occasionally like to make a hilariously grotesque looking character for comedy purposes (thanks Saint's Row for allowing me to do that).

[Blarghagh]

I've made some fallacious arguments about that myself before which I regret. Someone made the argument to me that well, women characters are idealized but so are most male characters. Like, not all (like Blizzard has a lot of fat dwarves and such) but most. And I had heard an argument before that made sense to me about that female characters are sexualized to pander to male gaze but male characters are solely a male empowerment fantasy so I repeated that, and I got slaughtered in that argument because it simply doesn't hold water.

 

Being attractive is, by default, an empowerment fantasy so being an idealized, sexy woman is also an empowerment fantasy, but beyond that it's scientifically proven that toned, muscled male forms are attractive to women and the reason it's empowering is because it's attractive. I mean, if you do a google image search on "romance novel covers", which is almost entirely geared towards women, marvel at all the "male power fantasies" that are meant to be attractive to women.

 

Not to say there aren't problems and differences in the approaches, for example I thought the controversy about Dragon's Dogma was completely misaimed because it focused on the lead characters. I had no problems with the leads, even with how overly sexualized some of them are (female and male) because they were all capable, strong characters who weren't made inferior to anyone else but that game that did have some issues considering the maidens and such you rescue being also overly sexualized, always in positions of weakness and practically orgasming to see you rescue them. It very clearly shows that idealisation and sexualisation are not inherently bad things but can just be used wrong, yet people are too dumb to see the difference and attack it just for being there.

[Keyrock]

I'm confused.  Is fantasizing about being an ideal version of oneself bad?  When I do such things, and I do, am I being a bad person?  Am I committing some kind of atrocity?

[Blarghagh]

No, the argument is that sexy women in games are created to be attractive to males, so attractive male characters are empowerment fantasies for men (which is fine) but attractive female characters are objectified and discriminatory. Get it? Not entirely untrue in all cases but most of the time it's bogus.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think TN and kirottu touched on this yesterday but here is an update: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mission-scientist-Dr-Matt-Taylor-cries-during-apology-over-offensive-shirt.html

 

I'm absolutely disgusted that a man wearing a shirt made for him by a female friend is attacked with such ferocity by these people.

 

I'm confused.  Is fantasizing about being an ideal version of oneself bad?  When I do such things, and I do, am I being a bad person?  Am I committing some kind of atrocity?

Yes, wishing to be the best you possible is shameful.

[JadedWolf]

Oh, who cares about a scientific milestone anyway. Clearly it's much more important to focus all our energy into reducing a hardworking scientist to a quivering, groveling mess because he made the faux pas of wearing a shirt gifted to him by a female friend for this very special occasion. That's real empowering.

 

[Barothmuk]

In my personal experience, most women I know well prefer to try and look attractive. Most don't walk around in skimpy clothing(unfortunately) but they do spend some effort keeping in shape, taking care of hygine, and dressing themselves. I suppose some would say this is because of internalized misogyny, which is code for "acting in a way I find inappropriate".

Or you know, societal structures expect women to conform to certain standards of beauty and have socialized them into wanting to conform to those standards of beauty.

 

I know this thread is basically a circle-jerk, but come on, this is pretty basic stuff.

[Keyrock]

I think TN and kirottu touched on this yesterday but here is an update: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mission-scientist-Dr-Matt-Taylor-cries-during-apology-over-offensive-shirt.html

 

I'm absolutely disgusted that a man wearing a shirt made for him by a female friend is attacked with such ferocity by these people.

I found the attack on him to be 1000X more shameful than the admittedly (in my opinion) tacky shirt he wore.

[Tale]

I'll just re-post here then

 

 

SJW's getting REKKED:

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/13/the-waronnerds-how-far-left-feminists-and-the-media-created-gamergate/

 

http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/gamergate-exposed-a-peek-inside-and-how-i-went-native/

 

 

 

Also, a crazy SJW getting ultra-super-platnium mad.

https://archive.today/W2kyB#selection-1115.1-1115.109

 

 

 

 

In other news, GG discusses starting up TWATTER, a un-censored version of Twitter.

 

 

 

It's a good day to be alive.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I think TN and kirottu touched on this yesterday but here is an update: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mission-scientist-Dr-Matt-Taylor-cries-during-apology-over-offensive-shirt.html

I'm absolutely disgusted that a man wearing a shirt made for him by a female friend is attacked with such ferocity by these people.

 

I found the attack on him to be 1000X more shameful than the admittedly (in my opinion) tacky shirt he wore.

I think the shirt is a bit tacky as well, mostly due to the strange color choices. That said, attacking someone over what clothes they wear is petty as hell. What really makes it is that the shirt was made by a female friend of is, but I suppose internalized misogyny is to blame.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Feminism is literally the shallowest, dumbest political ideology ever devised and was ethically compromised and dead before the 21st century.

 

It can pride itself with the most dubious achievement ever - helping support capitalist exploitation of women as a work force. In post WWII US you could raise a family of a single wage, which allowed women to actually raise their children. 

 

With feminism and post Reagan capitalism, both parents have to work to meet basic needs of a family and children are raised by hired help or their grandparents.

 

A civilizational milestone indeed.

 

All supposedly, in the name of allowing women to have "a career". Losing track of the fact that if everyone wants to be independent (financially and otherwise) and "the boss", then you get a society of lonesome individuals and fractured families. 

 

That's feminism as it relates to the real world.

 

This gaming related bull is both irrelevant and ridiculous. The supposed "feminism" here is nothing but an ideological tag used to smear the supposed other "mysoginist" for some sort of private gain, usually to keep public funding and their "ism" a thing. Many women and some men have now jumped on this bandwagon and abuse this as much as they can. That's a sure sign that the "ism" is on its last legs, because they have to resort to increasingly more violent measures to elicit a response.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[Shallow]

I think TN and kirottu touched on this yesterday but here is an update: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/11231320/Rosetta-mission-scientist-Dr-Matt-Taylor-cries-during-apology-over-offensive-shirt.html

 

I'm absolutely disgusted that a man wearing a shirt made for him by a female friend is attacked with such ferocity by these people.

Why the hell does it matter that a female made that shirt for him? He's just some guy trying to go about his life having fun and a bunch of random jerks attack him because they disapprove of his fashion sense, he fact that a chick made the shirt is completely irrelevant to the content of the shirt, if a jew had made nazi uniforms wearing them wouldn't be any less offensive to jews. I do believe in the right to be offended by anything, with that said though I also believe in the right to be offended by people being offended, it's time for people to come together and stop SJW culture from attempting to dominate all other cultures, well, that times long overdue, but better late than never. Someone should start a #randomspacedudeshouldbeabletowearwhatevershirthewantstoscrewyousjws hashtag.

 

I highly doubt that you really believe disapproving of the clothes someone wears is wrong though, I highly doubt most of you would be comfortable around KKK and nazi uniforms.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Shallow

[Drowsy Emperor]

It doesn't matter, but it is supremely ironic.