Drama and games journalism, soggy leg joint edition

[Malcador]

Will have to go ask some people what exactly the future #gamergate is trying to prevent looks like. Probably more "inclusive" (read : "accessible" arrggh!)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Megan Fox smoking hot, except for her weird toe thumbs.

That's a very specific thing to focus on.

[PrimeJunta]

@KainParker Ah. Texan. That is a valid excuse. Apologies and condolences, I did not realize that.

[Fighter]

"Wider culture" y'all. Show us that asset...

 

[TrashMan]

 

In this context, Gamergate is a rear-guard action-- the folks who liked all the stuff they could get away with in the good ol' days aren't happy being subject to the standards of decency that apply in mainstream culture. 

 

In short, ya'll GG'ers are my grandma, wondering aloud for the thousandth time why it's not OK to call them "Colored" anymore. 

 

If only your standards were decent or worth enforcing.

If only you were actually fighting monsters instead of lashing out at everyone who looks at you funny.

 

then I might buy that argument.

[Gfted1]

 

Megan Fox smoking hot, except for her weird toe thumbs.

That's a very specific thing to focus on.

 

 

I know but it cant be unseen. Google "Megan Fox toe thumb".

[Enoch]

The only real place for freedom of speech.

 

http://www.xkcd.com/1357/

 

 

 

Also:  Fighter's links are entertaining.  The difference being that nobody starts an online ragefest at the folks who point out the sexism and stupidity in that kind of entertainment.  (Or, well, some people might, but nobody takes them particularly seriously.) 

Edited October 17, 2014 by Enoch

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

@KainParker Ah. Texan. That is a valid excuse. Apologies and condolences, I did not realize that.

It should be in my location. I thought it was common knowledge the third largest US city was located in Texas.

 

Chip in 25$ and we'll be even.

[Fighter]

With dat well rounded culture dem manboons are doomed I tell you.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

If you want to apologise, do it by sending a few bucks here, they need it more than I do.

 

http://www.hawc.org/en/support-us/donate-today/

 

I'd encourage the rest of you to chip in as well, if you can shell out hundreds for a kickstarter $5 shouldn't be that bad.

 

 

Yeah, unlike the earlier TFYC gig, this one actually looks legit.

 

Lets celebrate the progressive "wider culture" shall we?

 

 

Oh, right, because Transformers is totally considered to be the height of cultural achievement.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

Megan Fox smoking hot, except for her weird toe thumbs.

That's a very specific thing to focus on.

I know but it cant be unseen. Google "Megan Fox toe thumb".

It is pretty strange looking.

[Longknife]

 

 

Megan Fox smoking hot, except for her weird toe thumbs.

 

That's a very specific thing to focus on.

 

I know but it cant be unseen. Google "Megan Fox toe thumb".

 

Wat if dat meenz her nipples look like vaginas

[Fighter]

Why did no one copy this sophisticated culture for Oculus Rift yet?

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

If you want to apologise, do it by sending a few bucks here, they need it more than I do.

 

http://www.hawc.org/en/support-us/donate-today/

 

I'd encourage the rest of you to chip in as well, if you can shell out hundreds for a kickstarter $5 shouldn't be that bad.

 

Yeah, unlike the earlier TFYC gig, this one actually looks legit.

I can guarantee it is. A friend of mine was really helped out by them once.

[Gfted1]

Whats a manboon? Google doesn't even know. Is he trying to say manboobs? Is it a unholy union of a man and baboon?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

There is no "gaming mysgonistic bubble"

Gaming never had any "culture". Not in the real sense of the world.

 

 

...Right.

[Longknife]

Oh btw GamerGate is still winning: https://i.imgur.com/gLoJFYw.png

[Gfted1]

 

 

 

Megan Fox smoking hot, except for her weird toe thumbs.

That's a very specific thing to focus on.

 

I know but it cant be unseen. Google "Megan Fox toe thumb".

 

Wat if dat meenz her nipples look like vaginas

 

 

That may be one of the greatest ideas Ive ever heard. Bravo good sir.

[Fighter]

Oh, right, because Transformers is totally considered to be the height of cultural achievement.

 

 

I don't think you understand the point. Cry all you like (and personally I think Transformers is a terrible movie) this IS mass mainstream culture. It's popular that's the point. This is what they put big juicy dollars into. So lets not lecture gaming using this "wider culture" thing.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Fighter

[PrimeJunta]

It should be in my location. I thought it was common knowledge the third largest US city was located in Texas.

Chip in 25$ and we'll be even.

 

No. I do not feel any need to "be even" with you. That would be too big a step down.

[Malcador]

In more Twitter funnies, Wu is on the warpath - https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/523179005487628288

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Whats a manboon? Google doesn't even know. Is he trying to say manboobs? Is it a unholy union of a man and baboon?

Did someone have sex with a baboon? I know a dude got caught having sex with a goat, but I've never heard anything about apes. I would say this requires some research, but I have the feeling it will wind up being like this:

 

http://youtu.be/lKfupO4ZzPs

[Blarghagh]

 

How do you figure?

 

 

I've been following this scene for a looooong time. Since rec.games on Usenet in the '90's at least, and BBS's from before that.

 

Things have changed, big-time.

 

Games are no longer a weird nerdy niche thing. If someone asks what my hobbies are, I can list "games" without getting more than the very occasional weird look. (I never minded them, but I do notice the difference.) Games are reviewed in major mainstream press. There are shows about gaming on major mainstream TV. Competitive gaming is starting to be recognized as a sport.

 

That means that the weird little bubble that is 'gamer culture' has popped. It's no longer safely insulated from the rest of the world. 

 

That means that the kind of raging, overt, and often entirely unconscious racism and sexism that's apparent even in this thread -- although probably not to many of the people who do it, having only been exposed to the kind of culture that has the same values -- no longer passes without comment. Anita Sarkeesian would not have been conceivable five or ten years ago. Five years ago, if someone who's not white, or a woman, said on a forum like this "You know, I'd like it if more women or people of color showed up in games, as protagonists and main characters instead of just tokens," she would have been (1) completely alone and (2) run out of town on a rail.

 

Now? The violence of the backlash against her is stronger than ever, but only because the usual methods aren't working anymore. She's not completely alone: she has people chiming in and supporting her. When the backlash runs to the ridiculous extents it has in GG and with Sarkeesian, to name just two incidents, this makes mainstream news -- and they aren't buying the manboon story. These neckbeards with fedoras ranting about "misandry" are weird, and they never realized it because in the gamer bubble their views were, until now, hegemonic and unchallenged.

 

For the past few years, they've had to face a real challenge to their ridiculous views, and like the manboons they are, they've only dug their hole deeper.

 

There are about 17,000 people hating on Sarkeesian on Reddit. That's an insignificant fraction of the people who play games. It's that majority who matters. The KainParkers, Orogun1's, pseudonymi, and Meshuggers of this world are being squeezed into insignificance, clutching their fedoras and throwing this gigantic temper tantrum that we're seeing.

 

It's a zit. It's being popped, and there's bloody pus all over the place. Sadly there are some real pathogens in there and I fervently hope nobody will actually get killed before this is over, but ultimately that's all that it is. A zit. Popped. A while longer, and gaming will meld into mainstream culture and will be regarded no differently from films, TV, or books. The weird isolated misogynistic bubble where anything goes because hey, Internet will be history.

 

It's the same thing in the atheist and skeptic communities too, by the way -- too other hitherto unsullied preserves of white, nerdy men. All those women and people of color elbowing their way in, demanding representation on their own terms. Same discourse, same conflict, same ugliness, same dynamic... and same direction.

 

It'll be a while yet. A few years, maybe. And it'll very likely get worse—superficially at least—before it gets better. But yes, we are winning. The manboons can't stop it, however much poo they sling and however hard they scream. And I'm enjoying every step of the way.

 

 

 

Wow PrimeJunta, you're a worse drama queen than any GamerGater.

 

Either way, still haven't explained why you think the GamerGate you hate is losing. The part GamerGate that is genuinely asking for journalistic integrity? They could be losing. The part of GamerGate that is just using that as a front for harassment and trolling? They've already won.

 

Those trolls have dictated literally every segment of this debate. They want attention? Well, now they've got oodles of it. They want to shut someone up? What have we heard from Zoe Quinn, Phil Fish or Anita Sarkeesian lately? What appearances were they scheduled for but had to drop? They want to keep women out of gaming? Well, all this ridiculous narrative about gamers being a misogynist hate group of basement dwelling neckbeards and development is a boys club that will keep women out has caused at least one female game design student I know personally to switch majors and I've seen a pretty large amount of messages going "what woman in their right mind would want to become a game designer". It's going to stay a boys club for a significant amount of time longer because of the big brouhaha over a couple of **** posting anonymous messages. Which pisses me off more than anything else, because we were bloody well making progress and all that work is now for nothing because the moral outrage machine blew everything out of proportion to give trolls exactly what they want.

 

In this debate, the trolls learned exactly how in control they are. They control what people are allowed to say ("we can't talk about this until the harassment stops!"), they control what people do ("I'm selling polytron because I'm sick of it!"), they control what messages go out ("I'm not speaking at this event because some kid on the other side of the planet said he'd shoot me") and they control any movement they manage to co-opt. And because they are absolutely, undeniably in control, none of the things you want will come to pass. All because you and every other cog of the moral outrage machine bought into a ridiculous narrative because you're, at your core, a misanthrope who sees only the worst in people.

 

So go ahead, "beat" GamerGate. I'm sure the loss of a hashtag will mean something huge to those trolls.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Oh, right, because Transformers is totally considered to be the height of cultural achievement.

 

 

I don't think you understand the point. Cry all you like (and personally I think Transformers is terrible movie) this IS mass mainstream culture. It's popular that's the point. This is what they put big juicy dollars into. So lets not lecture gaming using this "wider culture" thing.

 

 

And it's still widely considered to be garbage by basically any movie critic! Yet if gaming reviews dare to speak anything other than praise about similarly popular video gaming franchises, they're automatically "pushing an agenda".

 

I think you're the one who missed Enoch's original point.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Those trolls have dictated literally every segment of this debate. They want attention? Well, now they've got oodles of it. They want to shut someone up? What have we heard from Zoe Quinn, Phil Fish or Anita Sarkeesian lately? What appearances were they scheduled for but had to drop? They want to keep women out of gaming? Well, all this ridiculous narrative about gamers being a misogynist hate group of basement dwelling neckbeards and development is a boys club that will keep women out has caused at least one female game design student I know personally to switch majors and I've seen a pretty large amount of messages going "what woman in their right mind would want to become a game designer". It's going to stay a boys club for a significant amount of time longer because of the big brouhaha over a couple of **** posting anonymous messages. Which pisses me off more than anything else, because we were bloody well making progress and all that work is now for nothing because the moral outrage machine blew everything out of proportion to give trolls exactly what they want.

 

In this debate, the trolls learned exactly how in control they are. They control what people are allowed to say ("we can't talk about this until the harassment stops!"), they control what people do ("I'm selling polytron because I'm sick of it!"), they control what messages go out ("I'm not speaking at this event because some kid on the other side of the planet said he'd shoot me") and they control any movement they manage to co-opt. And because they are absolutely, undeniably in control, none of the things you want will come to pass. All because you and every other cog of the moral outrage machine bought into a ridiculous narrative because you're, at your core, a misanthrope who sees only the worst in people.

 

I'm sorry, TN, I know you didn't mean it that way, but don't you think it's a little cold to basically pin the blame for prospective minority game devs leaving the industry on the "moral outrage machine" instead of, y'know, the actual harrassers?