Please, No Lockpick or Trap-Disarm XP!

[PrimeHydra]

Quote from J.E.Sawyer (full post), emphasis added:

 

Adding in minor bestiary, exploration, lock, and trap XP rewards to increase the regularity of XP rewards across the game. 

 

That part in italics seems misguided, for a very simple reason: Disarming traps and picking locks is a Mechanics skill check. Therefore, reaping all XP rewards will require a Mechanics-focused character in your party. None of the other sources of XP require specific skill focus.

 

Between bestiary, exploration, and quest/objective rewards, together with carefully-designed levels, progression should be plenty frequent without forcing players (or at least "power players") to max Mechanics. That skill's plenty desirable without binding it to an XP pool.

 

What do you guys think? Sign the poll and speak your mind.

 

(I realize there is another thread that touches in this issue, but its survey is broader and its discussion has mostly devolved into yet another combat XP debate. So please, focus discussion on Trap and Lockpick XP, and whether it's good for the game. Thanks!)

 

Edit: To clarify (thank you, wanderon) the problem isn't so much that Trap/XP is bound to Mechanics, it's that the other skills are NOT bound to XP pools. Even Bestiary unlocks are not strictly Lore-gated; low-Lore parties can unlock entries, they just need to fight more of a given beast.

 

Even if each skill had an associated "XP activity", though, we'd have to make the usual-suspects group of rogue, wizard, fighter, etc., or else lose out. You may as well pick a skill for your character on creation and have it auto-level. Why provide multiple skill points per level if you're going to max one?

Edited October 16, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[wanderon]

I like it and am not of the mind that the game has to make every single sort of experience available to every single type of party which I gather is the prime objection to adding it.

[PrimeHydra]

I like it and am not of the mind that the game has to make every single sort of experience available to every single type of party which I gather is the prime objection to adding it.

It wouldn't be so bad if every skill focus provided a more or less equal opportunity for XP. But then you'd still have to max one skill per character, lest you miss a corresponding skill-gated experience pool. Why even provide multiple skill points per level? You might as well pick a skill on character creation and have it auto-level.

 

Edit: Updated the OP to take your (excellent) point into account.

Edited October 16, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[Sensuki]

yeah screw lock and trap xp

[Gfted1]

Up with lock and trap xp! Huzzah!

[PrimeHydra]

Up with lock and trap xp! Huzzah!

So, max Mechanics or miss out?

Edited October 16, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[Captain Shrek]

 

Up with lock and trap xp! Huzzah!

So, max Mechanics or miss out?

 

Max stealth on all. 

[Gfted1]

 

Up with lock and trap xp! Huzzah!

So, max Mechanics or miss out?

 

 

Arent there lock picks in the game?

[PrimeHydra]

Arent there lock picks in the game?

These don't bypass the Mechanics skill check, if I understand correctly. And what about traps?

Edited October 16, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[Sir Newbie]

This thread is so biased that i want to pick yes just to be annoying though i too don't really approve of unlock/disarm trap xp.*

 

You don't have to worry it seem that the majority of players don't want it, so no need to control the mass by sneaky polls...

 

*i mean (no offense hein! just being silly) the title of the thread and the title of the poll

Edited October 16, 2014 by Sir Newbie

[PrimeHydra]

This thread is so biased that i want to pick yes just to be annoying though i too don't really approve of unlock/disarm trap xp.

 

You don't have to worry it seem that the majority of players don't want it, so no need to control the mass by sneaky polls...

I shared my own opinion, which is indeed biased

[Gfted1]

 

Arent there lock picks in the game?

These don't bypass the Mechanics skill check, if I understand correctly. And what about traps?

 

 

TBH, I don't know what picks do. I assumed they added some amount of (+) to whatever check is used to pick a lock thus lessening the Mechanics skill "requirement". Traps would still be a problem though.

[Lephys]

I voted "No," but I feel explanation is in order:

 

It's not that I wish for XP to never accompany the act of unlocking a lock or disarming a trap. I simply believe the XP should only be present when further criteria are met. You just unlocked a lock that lets reinforcements into the keep, or you just disarmed a bunch of traps that mean people can actually use this hallway again, instead of having to send someone with amazing reflexes down it every time they want to get something.

 

For that matter, you should really sometimes get XP for ARMING traps.

 

Otherwise, I'm sorry... but if the sheer act of disarming a trap or picking a lock gets us XP, then I demand that knowing something because of lore, or doing anything athletic, or the sheer act of not-being-detected via Stealth, or operating any mechanical contraption whatsoever all grant XP as well.

 

If the criteria for warranting an XP reward amounts to "did you use a skill?", then I say anything we can possibly do that uses a skill, no matter how frivolous, should award XP.

[Sir Newbie]

For no reason i laughed hard on that one :

You just unlocked a lock that lets reinforcements into the keep, or you just disarmed a bunch of traps that mean people can actually use this hallway again, instead of having to send someone with amazing reflexes down it every time they want to get something.

I was just imagining :

Lord of the castle : "Fetch me some wine from the cellar"

Servants looking awkwardly at each other : "But Lord the traps..." 

The Lord :"My wine and fast!"

Servants looking at the rogue : "Ah come on! Every times ! Every *censure* times" and crying over his benevolent personality "and for god's sake why did i train in stealth and not in mechanics"... 

Edited October 16, 2014 by Sir Newbie

[Lephys]

I was just imagining :

Lord of the castle : "Fetch me some wine from the cellar"

Servants looking awkwardly at each other : "But Lord the traps..." 

The Lord :"My wine and fast!"

Servants looking at the rogue : "Ah come on! Every times ! Every *censure* times" and crying over his benevolent personality "and for god's sake why did i train in stealth and not in mechanics"...

Hahaha. I was thinking more along the lines of "congratulations, you snuck through the keep, dispatched the guards, and slew the guy who ran the place. we've 'taken' the keep, but you left all the horrible traps those guys set up, because you just skillfully avoided them. We can't really move a whole keep's worth of people back into this place to live with all those traps there. Not without an awful lot of casualties."

[PrimeHydra]

Kind of surprised to see the Yeas outweighing the Nays. I thought lockpick and trap XP was really unpopular among this forum. Anyone who voted Yes (or No), care to share your reasons?

Edited October 17, 2014 by PrimeHydra

[Cantousent]

I think it will even out.  I voted no along the same lines as Lephys.  I don't mind people getting XP as a result of one particular skill or ability.  I would rather that it be tied to an objective or result and not handed out systemically for no reason other than the skill use.  In my opinion, the ability to loot a chest or get through a door is more than ample reward.  If there is some particular need to open a chest or a door, I think awarding some XP for it is not out of order.  Personally, I think people who are willing to forgo XP for wanton killing are actually more likely to go out of the way to get other incidental XP.  This is not unlike folks who would estimate the biggest XP reward for opening a safe in New Vegas, such as through the electronic system or cracking the safe.  When you decide your actions based on the method rather than the result, the system is bad.  While New Vegas is one of my favorite all time games, I think that's the game where I could disable robots using science and then destroy the inert robot for extra kill XP.

 

Anyhow. I'm too lazy to post more, but that's the argument that strikes me at the moment.  I think the poll will probably be fairly even throughout, but you never know.

[constantine]

A big, loudy NO to lockpick/trap exp. If no trastic changes occur to the exp system, we d better have a controlled advancement via quests/quest objectives. Lockpick, exploration, bestiary exp & the like is a joke.

[wanderon]

 

I like it and am not of the mind that the game has to make every single sort of experience available to every single type of party which I gather is the prime objection to adding it.

It wouldn't be so bad if every skill focus provided a more or less equal opportunity for XP. But then you'd still have to max one skill per character, lest you miss a corresponding skill-gated experience pool. Why even provide multiple skill points per level? You might as well pick a skill on character creation and have it auto-level.

 

Edit: Updated the OP to take your (excellent) point into account.

 

 

Sorry I just don't get this why does every skill have to have an experience reward if one or two have them - what if people just chose their skills based on the sort of character they think they want in their team - without the math, without the meta-gaming, you know  like this was actually a role playing game?

 

And then what if we let everyone who didn't want to do that - make their own decisions in their own way whether they wanted to choose skill for experience gain or just because they work for their character/team concept.

[Matt516]

Just popping in to say please, please no lock or trap XP. It's a holdover from the IE games that doesn't fit with PoE's XP philosophy. Not only does it tie optimal XP gains to a specific skill, but it also leads to very non-immersive play as your party runs around, compulsively unlocking everything in sight for the sweet, sweet XP nectar.

 

Just please... no.

[wanderon]

Just popping in to say please, please no lock or trap XP. It's a holdover from the IE games that doesn't fit with PoE's XP philosophy. Not only does it tie optimal XP gains to a specific skill, but it also leads to very non-immersive play as your party runs around, compulsively unlocking everything in sight for the sweet, sweet XP nectar.

 

Just please... no.

 

And again I say exactly how many locks and traps do you think people will ONLY unlock / disarm becuase they get a bit of experience vs the number they will simply unlock/disarm normally in the course of the game - literally every lock and trap is placed in the game so that someone needs to unlock/disarm it for some gameplay reason - they are not out in the back room adding scores of pointless locks and traps just because it's Thurday and it sounded like a fun day...

 

As for PoEs philosophy it is the developers that are suggesting this - aren't they the ones who sort of put that philosophy together and implement it in their game?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Just popping in to say please, please no lock or trap XP. It's a holdover from the IE games that doesn't fit with PoE's XP philosophy. Not only does it tie optimal XP gains to a specific skill, but it also leads to very non-immersive play as your party runs around, compulsively unlocking everything in sight for the sweet, sweet XP nectar.

 

Just please... no.

 

The PoE XP philosophy? What would that be? I didn't know there was one.

[Cantousent]

There is a stated philosophy from actually quite a while ago, perhaps even while the kickstarter was still going.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Hopefully, someone can post this philosophy and see how lock/trap xp goes against it. I'm genuinely curious about this.

[Cantousent]

I've seen it somewheres, but I can't remember where to find it now and I'm too lazy to look.  I might check into it later if someone else doesn't post it for you.  :Cant's wry grin icon: