Combat XP - What Just Happened..?

[Ineth]

150 votes = new chart:

 

 

The lead of "Bestiary XP" over "Combat XP" has shrunk quite a bit since I made the previous chart.

[Cantousent]

 

I don't vote in most polls like this because even when a poll isn't inherently skewed, people use the results to represent whatever they want, regardless of my intentions.

 

*Edited for gross typos.

 

So.. What your saying is that you support combat xp?

 

Laughed out Loud.  I also appreciate Ineth's mad charting skillz!  Good stuff, man!

 

Anyhow, there I don't think that forum polls are strong in and of themselves, but that can provide a catalyst for good conversations.  ...And sometimes the debate can have an impact on how people see the issue.  Sometimes, although rarely, it can encourage people to change positions.  More frequently, it can encourage people to modify positions in some way or another, and that's nothing to sneeze at.  I've never thought Obsidz had a lot of love for the online community, but I *do* believe that sometimes discussions here can make an impact on the designers.

 

[Ineth]

More fun with statistics! This time, four histograms showing how some of the voting patterns in this poll changed over time, based on the data from my previous three result charts:

 

 

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness
  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it
   
• theory 2: hard-core vs casual
  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?
   
• theory 3: timezones
  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

[wanderon]

You may want to factor in phases of the moon and sunspots as well Ineth - you know leave no stone uncovered...

[Immortalis]

More fun with statistics! This time, four histograms showing how some of the voting patterns in this poll changed over time, based on the data from my previous three result charts:

 

 

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness

  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it

   

• theory 2: hard-core vs casual

  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?

   

• theory 3: timezones

  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

 

 

I appreciate your analysis.. but I do think it has a lot to do with 'randomness'.. I already have a general ~*~Feels~*~ for the people on this forum and can honestly say.. up to around 300 votes this poll won't really shock me in the results.

[archangel979]

It is good that combat XP has gone over Bestiary XP, because Bestiary is just a poor man fix for lack of combat xp. 

[Silent Winter]

It is good that combat XP has gone over Bestiary XP, because Bestiary is just a poor man fix for lack of combat xp. 

er...it hasn't (?) - Combat xp 70-votes, Bestiary xp 90-votes (?)

It's been catching up to it but isn't over it.

[Ineth]

 

It is good that combat XP has gone over Bestiary XP, because Bestiary is just a poor man fix for lack of combat xp. 

er...it hasn't (?) - Combat xp 70-votes, Bestiary xp 90-votes (?)

It's been catching up to it but isn't over it.

 

 

archangel is probably referring to the bars in the histograms I poster earlier. But those bars don't show the cumulative score, they each reflect only the votes cast during the corresponding time segment.

In other words, of the people who voted on (roughly) the first day of the poll, a higher percentage selected Bestiary than Combat. But among the people who voted on (roughly) the second to third day of the poll, Combat was more popular. Overall, Combat still scores lower though.

[molloy]

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness

  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it

   

• theory 2: hard-core vs casual

  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?

   

• theory 3: timezones

  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

 

You forgot a quite obvious 4th theory: influence of poll so far

Knowing how your favorite option is doing can certainly manipulate your behaviour. It could convince you to vote at all, you could not vote for options you would have voted for if they weren't higher than your favorite option, and so on. My theory for Quest-Xp going down is actually that combat xp supporters stopped voting for that, just to change the balance further in it's favor.

[archangel979]

 

 

It is good that combat XP has gone over Bestiary XP, because Bestiary is just a poor man fix for lack of combat xp. 

er...it hasn't (?) - Combat xp 70-votes, Bestiary xp 90-votes (?)

It's been catching up to it but isn't over it.

 

 

archangel is probably referring to the bars in the histograms I poster earlier. But those bars don't show the cumulative score, they each reflect only the votes cast during the corresponding time segment.

In other words, of the people who voted on (roughly) the first day of the poll, a higher percentage selected Bestiary than Combat. But among the people who voted on (roughly) the second to third day of the poll, Combat was more popular. Overall, Combat still scores lower though.

 

Yes, I didn't compare your graphs with the poll, I assumed (incorrectly) that you put total percentages for each time, not only percentage of that time.

[kloperius]

I voted all. why we could'nt have all?

[archangel979]

I voted all. why we could'nt have all?

Because JESawyer is not Santa Claus. 

[Immortalis]

 

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness

  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it

   

• theory 2: hard-core vs casual

  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?

   

• theory 3: timezones

  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

 

You forgot a quite obvious 4th theory: influence of poll so far

Knowing how your favorite option is doing can certainly manipulate your behaviour. It could convince you to vote at all, you could not vote for options you would have voted for if they weren't higher than your favorite option, and so on. My theory for Quest-Xp going down is actually that combat xp supporters stopped voting for that, just to change the balance further in it's favor.

 

 

Your theory is just a self fulfilling prophecy for your self. Don't drag the rest of us through the mud because of how you voted.

 

I can tell you right now that the most vocal Combat XP supporters all voted quest XP too.. (Some of them haven't voted yet.. I mean the ones who have already)

Edited October 11, 2014 by Immortalis

[molloy]

 

 

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness

  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it

   

• theory 2: hard-core vs casual

  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?

   

• theory 3: timezones

  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

 

You forgot a quite obvious 4th theory: influence of poll so far

Knowing how your favorite option is doing can certainly manipulate your behaviour. It could convince you to vote at all, you could not vote for options you would have voted for if they weren't higher than your favorite option, and so on. My theory for Quest-Xp going down is actually that combat xp supporters stopped voting for that, just to change the balance further in it's favor.

 

 

Your theory is just a self fulfilling prophecy for your self. Don't drag the rest of us through the mud because of how you voted.

 

I can tell you right now that the most vocal Combat XP supporters all voted quest XP too.. (Some of them haven't voted yet.. I mean the ones who have already)

 

 

Where do you get your information about how I voted?

As a matter of fact: I didn't vote at all. Although I find (kind of) all xp sources justifiable, such a vote could be misunderstood as actually demanding all xp sources - which I don't. I would have picked the 'whatever Obsidian decides' option. Not because I think that would be best, but because it't their game and therefore their decision.

 

Nevertheless, I think no quest xp is not justifiable if there is lock pick xp. But the poll wasn't about dependencies.

[Sarex]

Voted for 1, 2, 3, 4.

[Marceror]

I voted for all of them when I voted. XP gives a sense of progression, and I'd be perfectly happy if all of the included options granted xp in PoE.

 

I'm particularly happy with how WL2 grants skill based xp only to the character that performs the skill.

 

Go through life. Do things. Become more experienced. It's totally logical and, as previously stated, it feels good to get it. MOAR XP options please.

[Sarex]

It's still mind boggling to me, that in a combat centric game there is no kill xp.

[Immortalis]

 

 

 

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness

  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it

   

• theory 2: hard-core vs casual

  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?

   

• theory 3: timezones

  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

 

You forgot a quite obvious 4th theory: influence of poll so far

Knowing how your favorite option is doing can certainly manipulate your behaviour. It could convince you to vote at all, you could not vote for options you would have voted for if they weren't higher than your favorite option, and so on. My theory for Quest-Xp going down is actually that combat xp supporters stopped voting for that, just to change the balance further in it's favor.

 

 

Your theory is just a self fulfilling prophecy for your self. Don't drag the rest of us through the mud because of how you voted.

 

I can tell you right now that the most vocal Combat XP supporters all voted quest XP too.. (Some of them haven't voted yet.. I mean the ones who have already)

 

 

Where do you get your information about how I voted?

As a matter of fact: I didn't vote at all. Although I find (kind of) all xp sources justifiable, such a vote could be misunderstood as actually demanding all xp sources - which I don't. I would have picked the 'whatever Obsidian decides' option. Not because I think that would be best, but because it't their game and therefore their decision.

 

Nevertheless, I think no quest xp is not justifiable if there is lock pick xp. But the poll wasn't about dependencies.

 

 

I don't care how you voted.. I just don't want you spewing crap all over the thread. You just accused us of fudging numbers because we want Quest XP to lose against Combat XP.

 

Combat XPer's want both of them in the game.. Just like the IE games had.

[morhilane]

It's still mind boggling to me, that in a combat centric game there is no kill xp.

 

Lots of people keep on saying it's a combat-centric game, that's not the impression I got from reading interviews with the devs (or the Kickstarter pitch). In fact, one interview especially mention that the Endless Paths of Od Nua was the section of the game for the combat lovers (PC Gamer UK November 2014, so it's recent).

[Immortalis]

 

It's still mind boggling to me, that in a combat centric game there is no kill xp.

 

Lots of people keep on saying it's a combat-centric game, that's not the impression I got from reading interviews with the devs (or the Kickstarter pitch).

 

 

Yea I thought that too.. Then the beta came out..

Edited October 11, 2014 by Immortalis

[archangel979]

I always expected there to be lots of combat.

[molloy]

 

 

 

 

And now for some idle speculation on the reason for those changes in voting patterns...

• theory 1: randomness

  this explanation is boring, so lets ignore it

   

• theory 2: hard-core vs casual

  maybe the kind of dedicated Obsidian forum members who check for new threads regularly and were thus more likely to vote mere minutes or hours after the poll was published, tend to have different opinions than more casual PoE fans who are more likely to only discover a new forum poll after a few days?

   

• theory 3: timezones

  When the poll was published it was 18:17 in New York, 23:17 in London, and 09:17 in Sydney. So maybe the left parts of the histograms reflect the American, East Asian & Australian position on XP mechanics, and the middle parts the European, African & Middle Eastern position? Doesn't explain the significant changes in the right-most parts though...

Feel free to join me in this extremely meaningful and important discussion!

 

(yeah, I know, I should find something more productive to do to stop feeling bored...)

 

You forgot a quite obvious 4th theory: influence of poll so far

Knowing how your favorite option is doing can certainly manipulate your behaviour. It could convince you to vote at all, you could not vote for options you would have voted for if they weren't higher than your favorite option, and so on. My theory for Quest-Xp going down is actually that combat xp supporters stopped voting for that, just to change the balance further in it's favor.

 

 

Your theory is just a self fulfilling prophecy for your self. Don't drag the rest of us through the mud because of how you voted.

 

I can tell you right now that the most vocal Combat XP supporters all voted quest XP too.. (Some of them haven't voted yet.. I mean the ones who have already)

 

 

Where do you get your information about how I voted?

As a matter of fact: I didn't vote at all. Although I find (kind of) all xp sources justifiable, such a vote could be misunderstood as actually demanding all xp sources - which I don't. I would have picked the 'whatever Obsidian decides' option. Not because I think that would be best, but because it't their game and therefore their decision.

 

Nevertheless, I think no quest xp is not justifiable if there is lock pick xp. But the poll wasn't about dependencies.

 

 

I don't care how you voted.. I just don't want you spewing crap all over the thread. You just accused us of fudging numbers because we want Quest XP to lose against Combat XP.

 

Combat XPer's want both of them in the game.. Just like the IE games had.

 

 

"...spewing crap all over the thread"? Wow!

I merely pointed out a very well known confounder of polls and I did that once.

[No idea]

I have always thought that taking away combat experience unfairly punishes a certain way of playing. And with no good reason, imho.

[No idea]

Objective only experience works ideally, but not in a game which emphasizes and often imposes combat. In the end, they should just award experience for everything, but impose an ECL system if they are worried about balance. I cannot understand why this is such a tenacious topic.

Agreed, i dont understand why they dont simply use an ecl system to give combat experience, if they are afraid of combat lovingplayers getting too much experience in random encounters. It is really simple.

[Namutree]

 

It's still mind boggling to me, that in a combat centric game there is no kill xp.

 

Lots of people keep on saying it's a combat-centric game, that's not the impression I got from reading interviews with the devs (or the Kickstarter pitch). In fact, one interview especially mention that the Endless Paths of Od Nua was the section of the game for the combat lovers (PC Gamer UK November 2014, so it's recent).

 

The kickstarter pitch suggests it'll have the dungeon crawling of IWD. If I recall correctly; IWD's dungeons were teeming with combat. Josh has already stated that there will be many mandatory fights. Not to mention all the classes seem to be geared towards combat. If the beta is anything to go by there will be trash encounters all over the place. Josh has also stated that he didn't want to encourage players to avoid combat why is why OE is tweaking the xp system since the quest xp only model has produced undesirable results.

 

Combat is this game's focus. More so than BG; less so than IWD.

 

EDIT: WAIT THERE'S MORE!

 

Obsidian has put a lot of effort into into getting rid of cheese strategies and re-balancing the game system in order to make the combat more tactical. This would be a huge waste of resources if poe wasn't a combat focused game.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Namutree