New build feedback

[Hiro Protagonist II]

  On 9/27/2014 at 2:40 PM, Monte Carlo said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 2:38 PM, IndiraLightfoot said:

MC & Quadrone: I played a Bleakwalker paladin as a fire-godlike, and I pumped dexterity, followed by lots of strength, constitution and perception - then I dropped the rest to bad levels. I picked damage enhancing skills on top of that, and got a beast in combat. My party, without any adv hall hireling, killed the Medreth boar gang easily on normal, first try. I made it a priority to hit as often as possible and hit hard. I even had two guys in my party doing nothing: the priest and the wizard.

 

So this system.... (gasp) favours min / maxing???

 

I disappoint.

 

 

Very much so. I've been min-maxing ever since the beta went live. This new update favours it even more. Add in the nude strategy as well to make combat faster for your characters. I killed Medreth's gang quite easily as well.

 

I just tried the Medreth fight again and my characters were level 5 and levelled up to 6 when the fight started. This was on Hard. Only my Fighter took some damage. Battle was over in around 10-15 seconds.

 

It was mostly the Fighter and Rogue. Fighter was doing a lot of damage.

 

Wizard casted a couple of Fireballs.

Cipher used a couple of spells.

Priest only casted Interdiction. And then I didn't use her in the fight.

Druid only Casted Insect Swarm on Medreth. And then I didn't use her in the fight.

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Monte Carlo]

So what class / stats build am I looking at for a low-med maintenance melee character? All suggestions gratefully accepted.

[morhilane]

  On 9/27/2014 at 2:38 PM, TheNationer said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 11:35 AM, morhilane said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 2:46 AM, Sensuki said:

I really don't think it is. I don't want an animated engagement UI. Animated Targeting reticle is more important.

 

  On 9/26/2014 at 11:36 PM, morhilane said:

Does anyone else have blue health bar and blue party circles? It used to be green in v278.

 

2014-09-26_00001.jpg

Turn Colorblind mode off again.

 

 

hmm, I never set that option to true but it was. Thanks, that explain why some stuff was blue.

 

 

So was mine, did you not find it looked better?   Because I did xD

 

 

I actually do prefer the blue over the green.

 

 

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 1:50 PM, Malekith said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 1:38 PM, Monte Carlo said:

* shrugs * I still don't think the system is intuitive. I build a high MIGHT high CON barbarian with a morningstar and he sucks donkey balls in combat. Why?

Are you sure he sucks?

Because if you compair him with BG1 fighters, he will suck by design. Remember when Sawyer said that the wizard power curve (sucks at low levels, reigns at hig levels) is a no go?

The other side of that coin is that the fighters power curve (beast at low levels compaired to other characters, sucks in high level) is a no go as well.

 

 

Yes. He sucks. When he goes to bash stuff up it takes ages and he does hardly any damage. His armour doesn't seem to protect him. He dies quite quickly, pulling a disproportionate amount of aggro.

 

Barbarian has a base class deflection of 5, the lowest of all classes. They will get hit often if they aggro too many people...

[Uomoz]

@Hiroguy that fight's outcome is exactly the same without using nudes and without any particular minmaxing (I can make a video of that if you need, do you?), the main difference in our strats is that I'm not forced to reload the instant an enemy decides to focus my second liners.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Uomoz

[Gromnir]

  On 9/27/2014 at 3:56 PM, Uomoz said:

@Hiroguy that fight's outcome is exactly the same without using nudes and without any particular minmaxing (I can make a video of that if you need, do you?), the main difference in our strats is that I'm not forced to reload the instant an enemy decides to focus my second liners.

*chuckle*

 

ok, that were funny.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[pirthman]

Hope they can make a simulator

[Matt516]

  On 9/27/2014 at 11:32 AM, Rumsteak said:

Everyone agrees with having culture before attributes.

 

And I'm sure developers know all too well that doing so would break this nice symmetry with attributes at the center:

 

 

Now they may need to do a deep reshaping of the whole thing.

Weird that they didn't seem to think about this problem before.

Simple, put class after attributes. If preserving the symmetry is that important. Culture affects starting gear as well, but that's really not all that important and I'd personally be fine with selecting culture before class and taking starting gear I don't want (since I'll be changing it out ASAP anyway). Makes more thematic sense as well IMO. Figure out where you come from before you figure out what you do.

 

Of course, most of this is subjective so don't take me to be saying my opinions on this are the only ones. I do think it's pretty well agreed on that one way or the other, culture needs to be before attributes somehow.

[Matt516]

  On 9/27/2014 at 12:03 PM, Hormalakh said:

Alright folks. Finally finished my inventory UI update. Please let me know what you think.

 

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/09/looking-at-inventory-ui-bb301.html

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Looking at the Inventory UI bb301

 

This is for beta players who know how the inventory works. I came up with a new version that I worked on last night, ultimately shuffling things around to where they are most logical and flow best. I want some feedback.

 

The inventory is divided into three chunks:

the left-most gives you combat-oriented information and your portrait,

the middle portion is mainly dedicated to individual inventory

the right-most portion is the party inventory, stash, and party-specific information like crafting,enchanting, camping supplies, and party gold.

 

So I took that idea and ran with it.

The new inventory screen

On the left:

1- I added a few more combat-oriented information so that equipping any item should immediately give you feedback on changes.

2- I changed the names to be either three or two letter abbreviations except for the defenses.

3- I changed Stamina to Endurance, added in damage reduction, changed the icon for accuracy to a targeting reticule (which should show a melee accuracy or a ranged accuracy depending on what weapon set you're holding. Made the RH (Right hand) show damage ranges and attack speed as well as the LH (left hand) with a corresponding accuracy for each hand. These LH/RH values update immediately based on the weapon set that you choose.

4- Introduced interrupt and concentration if they are implemented in game.

5- Left the defenses as is.

 

In the middle:

I continued with the idea that this was supposed to represent an individual's inventory. The paperdoll, weapon sets, quick items all correspond as such. So I went further and:

1- put each character's portrait in this section (as opposed to the right-section, the party inventory).

2- Placed a singular "top of stash/belt" of 16 slots for each character. Thus, when you select each character, their corresponding 16-slot inventory will show up.

3- Added two new buttons: one is the "send to stash" (which looks like a finger point to the right) and the other is a "use item" or "drop item" (whichever one they want to use it for). I used the images of the hands of god from the sisteen chapel to represent these because I wanted it to continue with the theme of renaissance fantasy. The send to stash can send all items to the stash by for a particular character (perhaps by double-clicking?), or selecting an item and clicking that button would send individual items to stash.

4- This middle portion also has another version where the party portraits are to the left of the paperdoll, etc and closer to the left-most portion of the inventory.

 

The right-most section:

...is really a "party inventory" section. So I made it actually act that way:

1- There is now one singular grid for which you click on one of the top three buttons (STASH, CRAFTING INGREDIENTS, QUEST) to show those items.

2- The left-sided sorting buttons now would highlight those specific items in the whichever inventory type you are in.

3- There is now a "sorting" series of buttons at the top, similar to those on the right. These actually sort your items based on three algorithms: alphabetically (A), cost (the cent image), and number of items in stash (123).

4- I created an "ingredients button" that looks like an anvil. This would show all the ingredients you have collected in the main grid.

5- I placed a scrollbar next to the grid for increased stash space.

6- Camping supplies are now shown on the top right along with party gold since these are all related to the TOTAL that the PARTY has.

7- I moved over the crafting and enchant buttons here, because crafting and enchanting are not really based on individual skill. This way a quick look at the stash and you can start craft with stash items or you an drag and drop an item to be enchanted.

 

There are a few things that Obsidian still needs to implement, even with their current inventory system.

 

• Currently, players are unable to change the color of their characters. The colors are shown (in the paperdoll section), but clicking on those does nothing.
• There is no way to actually "use" an item while in the inventory screen. It is quite a hassle to use items, as you have to first place it in your quick items before you can use it. My inventory system sort of fixes this.
• It is impossible to "split" stacked items like potions. The only way I have currently found to do so is to go to a shopkeeper and to start selling items. It will then ask you how many items you want to sell and you can then split them that way.
• The ingredients list is a sort of nebulous stash that is near impossible to find. You first have to go to "Crafting" and then you can see a list of items you can make and you can sort of figure out what ingredient items you have based on those lists. My inventory systems hopefully fixes this.
• The stash inventory is also a pain in the butt to get to: you first have to get into the inventory system and then click on another button that you bring up another window which is the stash. Furthermore, the current way of getting items into and out of the stash is not intuitive.
• I have a suggestion with regards to how the inventory and character sheets show the values for health, endurance, DT, accuracy, etc. It would be really nice if mousing over the icosn would show how each value was calculated (including one-handed or two-handed bonuses, bonuses from eqpt, and other bonuses). I'm hoping that the extra information I placed in my inventory UI also helps towards getting the most information to the player.
• It has been mentioned multiple times before but the abbreviations system for the combat information is a little weird. I can't explain it. Anyway, I took a shot at fixing it, but something still doesn't feel right.

That's all I can think of for now. Feel free to comment here or on the Obsidian forums about what you think. I have the photoshop documents if people are interested in playing around with the inventory.

 

Also, just wanted to bump this. OE designers, PLEASE look at this. This is the kind of transparency and sleekness your inventory screen needs.

[TheNationer]

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:41 PM, Matt516 said:

Simple, put class after attributes. If preserving the symmetry is that important. Culture affects starting gear as well, but that's really not all that important and I'd personally be fine with selecting culture before class and taking starting gear I don't want (since I'll be changing it out ASAP anyway). Makes more thematic sense as well IMO. Figure out where you come from before you figure out what you do.

Of course, most of this is subjective so don't take me to be saying my opinions on this are the only ones. I do think it's pretty well agreed on that one way or the other, culture needs to be before attributes somehow.

 

 

I don't think putting class after attribute selection makes sense as when this is released non-backer players won't know what classes like Cipher are or how they will want to build them. Although most people do go back and forth during character creation, I don't think its great game design to force people to do so. You could have it where once you've chosen culture the attribute rectangle thing drops down and then you go into the choosing attribute screen, but I think the best idea is to bite the asymmetrical bullet.

Edited September 27, 2014 by TheNationer

[Gromnir]

haven't played the new build. in previous builds you could simple click attributes banner After choosing your culture. functional you could re-distribute your +1 ability point however you wished.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Monte Carlo]

I'm knid of ambivalent about the layout / culture aspect but I like Matt's inventory idea.

[TheNationer]

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:55 PM, Gromnir said:

haven't played the new build. in previous builds you could simple click attributes banner After choosing your culture. functional you could re-distribute your +1 ability point however you wished.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

From what I can discern, its a minor thing on the flow of the character selection screen i.e. knowing where all your attributes are rather than finding out you had a +1 on Resolve already factored in from being from Aedyr and you've just changed that. Very minor.

Edited September 27, 2014 by TheNationer

[TheNationer]

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:58 PM, Monte Carlo said:

I'm knid of ambivalent about the layout / culture aspect but I like Matt's inventory idea.

 

Its Hormalakh's

Edited September 27, 2014 by TheNationer

[Gromnir]

*shrug*

 

am gonna be choosing culture for role-play reasons, not for attribute or, and we can't believe folks ain't joking when they point this out, starting equipment. if the attribute point were fixed, we might needs take a few extra seconds figuring out how we would be building our character, but allowing us to redistribute the point by simply going back one step in character creation after choosing culture makes this all rather moot... at least for Gromnir.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Namutree]

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:45 PM, Matt516 said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 12:03 PM, Hormalakh said:

Alright folks. Finally finished my inventory UI update. Please let me know what you think.

 

http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/09/looking-at-inventory-ui-bb301.html

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Looking at the Inventory UI bb301

 

This is for beta players who know how the inventory works. I came up with a new version that I worked on last night, ultimately shuffling things around to where they are most logical and flow best. I want some feedback.

 

The inventory is divided into three chunks:

the left-most gives you combat-oriented information and your portrait,

the middle portion is mainly dedicated to individual inventory

the right-most portion is the party inventory, stash, and party-specific information like crafting,enchanting, camping supplies, and party gold.

 

So I took that idea and ran with it.

The new inventory screen

On the left:

1- I added a few more combat-oriented information so that equipping any item should immediately give you feedback on changes.

2- I changed the names to be either three or two letter abbreviations except for the defenses.

3- I changed Stamina to Endurance, added in damage reduction, changed the icon for accuracy to a targeting reticule (which should show a melee accuracy or a ranged accuracy depending on what weapon set you're holding. Made the RH (Right hand) show damage ranges and attack speed as well as the LH (left hand) with a corresponding accuracy for each hand. These LH/RH values update immediately based on the weapon set that you choose.

4- Introduced interrupt and concentration if they are implemented in game.

5- Left the defenses as is.

 

In the middle:

I continued with the idea that this was supposed to represent an individual's inventory. The paperdoll, weapon sets, quick items all correspond as such. So I went further and:

1- put each character's portrait in this section (as opposed to the right-section, the party inventory).

2- Placed a singular "top of stash/belt" of 16 slots for each character. Thus, when you select each character, their corresponding 16-slot inventory will show up.

3- Added two new buttons: one is the "send to stash" (which looks like a finger point to the right) and the other is a "use item" or "drop item" (whichever one they want to use it for). I used the images of the hands of god from the sisteen chapel to represent these because I wanted it to continue with the theme of renaissance fantasy. The send to stash can send all items to the stash by for a particular character (perhaps by double-clicking?), or selecting an item and clicking that button would send individual items to stash.

4- This middle portion also has another version where the party portraits are to the left of the paperdoll, etc and closer to the left-most portion of the inventory.

 

The right-most section:

...is really a "party inventory" section. So I made it actually act that way:

1- There is now one singular grid for which you click on one of the top three buttons (STASH, CRAFTING INGREDIENTS, QUEST) to show those items.

2- The left-sided sorting buttons now would highlight those specific items in the whichever inventory type you are in.

3- There is now a "sorting" series of buttons at the top, similar to those on the right. These actually sort your items based on three algorithms: alphabetically (A), cost (the cent image), and number of items in stash (123).

4- I created an "ingredients button" that looks like an anvil. This would show all the ingredients you have collected in the main grid.

5- I placed a scrollbar next to the grid for increased stash space.

6- Camping supplies are now shown on the top right along with party gold since these are all related to the TOTAL that the PARTY has.

7- I moved over the crafting and enchant buttons here, because crafting and enchanting are not really based on individual skill. This way a quick look at the stash and you can start craft with stash items or you an drag and drop an item to be enchanted.

 

There are a few things that Obsidian still needs to implement, even with their current inventory system.

• Currently, players are unable to change the color of their characters. The colors are shown (in the paperdoll section), but clicking on those does nothing.
• There is no way to actually "use" an item while in the inventory screen. It is quite a hassle to use items, as you have to first place it in your quick items before you can use it. My inventory system sort of fixes this.
• It is impossible to "split" stacked items like potions. The only way I have currently found to do so is to go to a shopkeeper and to start selling items. It will then ask you how many items you want to sell and you can then split them that way.
• The ingredients list is a sort of nebulous stash that is near impossible to find. You first have to go to "Crafting" and then you can see a list of items you can make and you can sort of figure out what ingredient items you have based on those lists. My inventory systems hopefully fixes this.
• The stash inventory is also a pain in the butt to get to: you first have to get into the inventory system and then click on another button that you bring up another window which is the stash. Furthermore, the current way of getting items into and out of the stash is not intuitive.
• I have a suggestion with regards to how the inventory and character sheets show the values for health, endurance, DT, accuracy, etc. It would be really nice if mousing over the icosn would show how each value was calculated (including one-handed or two-handed bonuses, bonuses from eqpt, and other bonuses). I'm hoping that the extra information I placed in my inventory UI also helps towards getting the most information to the player.
• It has been mentioned multiple times before but the abbreviations system for the combat information is a little weird. I can't explain it. Anyway, I took a shot at fixing it, but something still doesn't feel right.

That's all I can think of for now. Feel free to comment here or on the Obsidian forums about what you think. I have the photoshop documents if people are interested in playing around with the inventory.

 

Also, just wanted to bump this. OE designers, PLEASE look at this. This is the kind of transparency and sleekness your inventory screen needs.

 

What a great inventory screen!

[Matt516]

Yup, it's Hormalakh's - I was just bumping him for visibility.

[Rumsteak]

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:58 PM, TheNationer said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:55 PM, Gromnir said:

haven't played the new build. in previous builds you could simple click attributes banner After choosing your culture. functional you could re-distribute your +1 ability point however you wished.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

From what I can discern, its a minor thing on the flow of the character selection screen i.e. knowing where all your attributes are rather than finding out you had a +1 on Resolve already factored in from being from Aedyr and you've just changed that. Very minor.

 

 

Maybe the current layout is fine as it is, as long as the culture bonus is actually added after selecting your culture.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Rumsteak

[Leferd]

Haven't played too much yet but the sound of footfalls actually seems to make a huge positive difference in tactile feels.

[TheNationer]

Yeah, the character design screen is influenced by how you design your character, and thus it doesn't fit everyone (unless its asymmetrical)   Some people are entirely role playing and others entirely stats, with all the rest of us gr(e/a)ys inbetween. Overall, I like the way the character creation screen looks and - thanks to my love of symmetry - wouldn't be that bothered if it stayed forever ever.

 

P.s. the greens for the health bars are very Chernobyl green, do please switch to a deeper colo(u)r.

Edited September 27, 2014 by TheNationer

[Hellraiser789]

  On 9/27/2014 at 5:21 PM, Rumsteak said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:58 PM, TheNationer said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:55 PM, Gromnir said:

haven't played the new build. in previous builds you could simple click attributes banner After choosing your culture. functional you could re-distribute your +1 ability point however you wished.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

From what I can discern, its a minor thing on the flow of the character selection screen i.e. knowing where all your attributes are rather than finding out you had a +1 on Resolve already factored in from being from Aedyr and you've just changed that. Very minor.

 

 

Maybe the current layout is fine as it is, as long as the culture bonus is actually added after selecting your culture.

 

 

Rumsteak, you said exactly what I was thinking. Then people would be like "O sweet bonus resolve!", rather than "Hey, didnt I use to have 12 resolve instead of 11...?"  Then, if you want to go back and change your stats, knowing that you are going to get an extra point of resolve, you can do that. Makes sense to me. But I also love the symmetry and would be sad to see it go... hahahah

Edited September 27, 2014 by Hellraiser789

[Monte Carlo]

Hmmm. Just made an average (12) Might but high Dex / Con Orlan fighter and am a tiny, turbo-charged killing machine (sabre / stiletto dual wield).

 

So that's the light-fighter squared away. How do you build a decent tank?

[Hellraiser789]

  On 9/27/2014 at 4:41 PM, Matt516 said:

 

  On 9/27/2014 at 11:32 AM, Rumsteak said:

Everyone agrees with having culture before attributes.

 

And I'm sure developers know all too well that doing so would break this nice symmetry with attributes at the center:

 

 

Now they may need to do a deep reshaping of the whole thing.

Weird that they didn't seem to think about this problem before.

Simple, put class after attributes. If preserving the symmetry is that important. Culture affects starting gear as well, but that's really not all that important and I'd personally be fine with selecting culture before class and taking starting gear I don't want (since I'll be changing it out ASAP anyway). Makes more thematic sense as well IMO. Figure out where you come from before you figure out what you do.

 

Of course, most of this is subjective so don't take me to be saying my opinions on this are the only ones. I do think it's pretty well agreed on that one way or the other, culture needs to be before attributes somehow.

 

 

I was thinking that might be an option too, but then you would be picking your stats without knowing your class. Sure you could say "Im going to build a barbarian, so boost my STR, CON, & INT" but if you were brand new to the game and didnt know the class choices, that could be confusing, dont you think?

[mutonizer]

Hmm, it's simple really...

 

Sex > Race > Sub Race > Culture > Class > Stats > Abilities > Voice > Name..done.

[Malekith]

  On 9/27/2014 at 6:10 PM, Monte Carlo said:

Hmmm. Just made an average (12) Might but high Dex / Con Orlan fighter and am a tiny, turbo-charged killing machine (sabre / stiletto dual wield).

 

So that's the light-fighter squared away. How do you build a decent tank?

Make a Fighter with high CON / INT / and maybe Resolve (optional)

[Lysen]

So what about a walk toggle? Can I walk in this game or not? In previous builds, it was possible by going into stealth mode. Now it seems that you can only either run or sneak.