"Moderate" Muslims Had a Peace Conference in Norway...

[Volourn]

Also, wearing fancy suits and calling yourself moderate doesn't make you moderate. No moderate and/or reasonable modern Catholic/Christian is going to publicly and proudly admitting that they believe it's okay  to kill gays or to stone adulterers in 2014.

 

Those types of Christian/Catholic groups are largely mocked in the West are on the fringes of society and are barely tolerated as long as they stick to nonsensical rhetoric.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

No evidence, or evidence you intentionally ignore? http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/canadian-pm-blasts-cair-ties-hamas There's much more about CAIR on that website.

 

 

that gay people should be killed

If you claim that's a widespread believe among conservative Christians, you better back that up.

 

 

It's an interesting read, but again it's very vague when it comes to actual evidence.  First off, every branch of CAIR is independent, so the odds that some branches can be tied to an iman who supports Hamas is fairly likely.  For example, I've only had experience with CAIR-California, and it has been nothing but positive.  

 

Secondly, this is all about a charity organization that was indicted for providing money to extremists.  CAIR, along with 245 other organizations, were listed as unindicted co-conspirators with the charity organization.  They were cleared in 2011 of the list by a Federal Appeals Court, which your article conveniently left out.

 

And lastly, read the CAIR website.  Is there anything on there that strikes you as extreme?  Are their press releases cause for concern?  Look at the work they are doing to judge them, rather than vague accusations.

 

What's vague? The US government found them to be co-conspirators and a Hamas linked organization. And I can't find anything about them being cleared, what's your source on that?

To believe that all the branches are truly independent is beyond naïve, when you consider by whom and for what purpose they were founded. As far as their press releases, there's plenty of cause for concern, as many articles on Clarion illustrate.

 

 

 

 

 

No evidence, or evidence you intentionally ignore? http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/canadian-pm-blasts-cair-ties-hamas There's much more about CAIR on that website.

 

that gay people should be killed

If you claim that's a widespread believe among conservative Christians, you better back that up.

 

 

Come now WOD, there are Christian groups in the USA that believe that the earth is 6000 years old. I'm not trying to attack Christianity but people often say " look how radical Muslims are" . But to suggest that there aren't radical Christians with very conservative views is just not true.

 

Radical elements  exist on all sides of aisle, do you really need me to post links around blatant homophobia that exists in the USA due to religious belief?

 

Yes, if there's any information on mainstream Christian groups wanting to kill homosexuals, I do want you to post links, since that is what you implied. Obviously, you can find any kind of lunatic on the internet, like Westboro Baptist Church.

[BruceVC]

 

Also what you guys need to understand is that the purpose of this particular conference we are seeing in the video  is misplaced IMO

 

The speaker is trying to make a point that in Western countries we object to what we consider  " radical or fundamentalist " Islam . So he is saying " you guys are normal Muslims and you believe that men and women need to worship separately ". So now that most people in the room would obviously agree with that he is making the connection " so who are these so called radical Muslims that Western society talks about"

 

But he is misunderstanding that the main objective to fundamentalist Islam is not the fact that Muslims believe men and women need to worship separately but rather the violence that gets perpetuated in the name of Islamic  by groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda

 

Also there is a valid argument that if you live in Western countries you need to respect there laws which generally protect human rights like your sexual orientation, so there is a reasonable  view that if you live in a Western country you are entitled to practice your religion but you also need to respect the laws of that country and this can create a dichotomy within some Muslim communities as they grapple with the interpretation of  there faith within the boundaries of the laws of that country

These are probably the same people pushing for governments to have Haram and Sharia laws within the countries that they emigrate to. You could imagine the issue of they take to stoning homosexuals. Christianity is not under scrutiny because is mostly flexible, even the Pope has changed the stance on homosexuality and Muslims seem still stuck to the "Let's do Holy war" stage. If these men are truly the moderate ones I would say that Islam still has about 100 years of evolving to do.

 

 

I agree with almost everything you are saying. The one issue I have with some Muslims who immigrate to Western countries is that there is an expectation of certain religious rights. Now Western countries generally respect religious freedom but as someone who travels to the Middle East for work I can promise you that there is almost no religious freedom in those countries and your demands for such freedom will be generally ignored

 

And finally I understand why some religions have certain conservative views, like considering homosexuality a cardinal sin. I don't necessarily expect those religions to change but they also mustn't try to force that view on people that live in Western countries who are tolerant of human rights like your sexual orientation

[BruceVC]

 

 

Come now WOD, there are Christian groups in the USA that believe that the earth is 6000 years old. I'm not trying to attack Christianity but people often say " look how radical Muslims are" . But to suggest that there aren't radical Christians with very conservative views is just not true.

 

Radical elements  exist on all sides of aisle, do you really need me to post links around blatant homophobia that exists in the USA due to religious belief?

 

 

No evidence, or evidence you intentionally ignore? http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/canadian-pm-blasts-cair-ties-hamas There's much more about CAIR on that website.

Yes, if there's any information on mainstream Christian groups wanting to kill homosexuals, I do want you to post links, since that is what you implied. Obviously, you can find any kind of lunatic on the internet, like Westboro Baptist Church.

 

 

I take that back, I used the wrong words. Certain  mainstream  Conservative Christian groups in the USA don't say " gay people must die". I apologize for  saying that.

 

But they are brazenly and vociferously opposed to homosexuality and consider it an aberration. So they encourage homophobia as they refuse to accept it as part of the normal Christian lifestyle. And as I mentioned this is not all Christian groups in the USA

[ManifestedISO]

Don't know much about Muslims, but the shocker of 2014, word has it, is that, now-ex-Ferrari president, after 23 years of passionate service, Luca di Montezemolo, will take up position within Etihad Airways, who recently rescued Italian flyer Alitalia. Strange days, these. Forza, Luca. 

[BruceVC]

Don't know much about Muslims, but the shocker of 2014, word has it, is that, now-ex-Ferrari president, after 23 years of passionate service, Luca di Montezemolo, will take up position within Etihad Airways, who recently rescued Italian flyer Alitalia. Strange days, these. Forza, Luca. 

 

I'm not getting your point? Etihad is the airline that flies from Abu Dhabi, its a excellent airline and very well priced. Are you surprised an Italian would work for a Middle East airline?

[Namutree]

 

 

Yes, if there's any information on mainstream Christian groups wanting to kill homosexuals, I do want you to post links, since that is what you implied. Obviously, you can find any kind of lunatic on the internet, like Westboro Baptist Church.

 

 

I take that back, I used the wrong words. Certain  mainstream  Conservative Christian groups in the USA don't say " gay people must die". I apologize for  saying that.

 

But they are brazenly and vociferously opposed to homosexuality and consider it an aberration. So they encourage homophobia as they refuse to accept it as part of the normal Christian lifestyle. And as I mentioned this is not all Christian groups in the USA

 

Homosexuality can never be a part of the normal christian lifestyle. Christianity is on it's way out though so it doesn't really matter.

[ManifestedISO]

Not at all. The beclothed ones are enamored of di Montezemolo. The only shock is his departure from home. I suppose it has nothing to do with Muslimism. 

[BruceVC]

Not at all. The beclothed ones are enamored of di Montezemolo. The only shock is his departure from home. I suppose it has nothing to do with Muslimism. 

Okay I see what you are saying, well what's interesting is there many expats that work in Middle East companies and in senior positions. I have several good friends who are in 5-7 year contracts in the ME

[BruceVC]

 

 

Yes, if there's any information on mainstream Christian groups wanting to kill homosexuals, I do want you to post links, since that is what you implied. Obviously, you can find any kind of lunatic on the internet, like Westboro Baptist Church.

 

 

I take that back, I used the wrong words. Certain  mainstream  Conservative Christian groups in the USA don't say " gay people must die". I apologize for  saying that.

 

But they are brazenly and vociferously opposed to homosexuality and consider it an aberration. So they encourage homophobia as they refuse to accept it as part of the normal Christian lifestyle. And as I mentioned this is not all Christian groups in the USA

 

Homosexuality can never be a part of the normal christian lifestyle. Christianity is on it's way out though so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

Says who? I know several  Christian churches that openly allow gay people as part of there congregation. For them the most important message in the bible is one of peace, being a good person and loving your neighbour. They don't practice intolerance

[Meshugger]

We must not judge. Tolerance is love.

[Namutree]

 

Homosexuality can never be a part of the normal christian lifestyle. Christianity is on it's way out though so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

 

Says who? I know several  Christian churches that openly allow gay people as part of there congregation. For them the most important message in the bible is one of peace, being a good person and loving your neighbour. They don't practice intolerance

 

They may not be intolerant, but the religion is. Christianity is very clear on homosexuality; it is forbidden. As I already said though; the religion is dying so it doesn't really matter.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Homosexuality can never be a part of the normal christian lifestyle. Christianity is on it's way out though so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

 

Says who? I know several  Christian churches that openly allow gay people as part of there congregation. For them the most important message in the bible is one of peace, being a good person and loving your neighbour. They don't practice intolerance

 

They may not be intolerant, but the religion is. Christianity is very clear on homosexuality; it is forbidden. As I already said though; the religion is dying so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

Sure I hear you about parts of the bible that clearly say  " homosexuality is wrong " but there are also parts of the bible that say "slavery is fine " and " anyone who works  on the Sabbath must be killed ", it doesn't mean modern Christians follow every part of the bible. Many churches use there own interpretation for certain things

 

IMO there is no reason this same understanding can't be applied to the view on homosexuality? In other words its fine if someone is gay despite what the bible says?

[Namutree]

 

They may not be intolerant, but the religion is. Christianity is very clear on homosexuality; it is forbidden. As I already said though; the religion is dying so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure I hear you about parts of the bible that clearly say  " homosexuality is wrong " but there are also parts of the bible that say "slavery is fine " and " anyone who works  on the Sabbath must be killed ", it doesn't mean modern Christians follow every part of the bible. Many churches use there own interpretation for certain things

 

IMO there is no reason this same understanding can't be applied to the view on homosexuality? In other words its fine if someone is gay despite what the bible says?

 

Many of the more silly parts of the bible like the Sabbath have been overruled by the New Testament, but not homosexuality. That part of the bible is still intact. Best thing to do is to simply wait for religion to go away. Promoting secularism will speed it up.  

[Shallow]

 

I don't think comparing radical extremist Christians with moderate muslims at a peace conference in the video (if they are indeed moderate and at a peace conference) is a good argument.

 

What?  You mean it's not fair comparing the absolute worst of one group with those who are considered the "best" of the other group?

 

That's not really fair, moderate can be many things depending on who you ask and in what context, people who call themselves moderate aren't necesarrily moderate, and the more secular muslims who don't give that much of a damn wouldn't bother showing up to one of these things.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I don't think comparing radical extremist Christians with moderate muslims at a peace conference in the video (if they are indeed moderate and at a peace conference) is a good argument.

 

What?  You mean it's not fair comparing the absolute worst of one group with those who are considered the "best" of the other group?

 

That's not really fair, moderate can be many things depending on who you ask and in what context, people who call themselves moderate aren't necesarrily moderate, and the more secular muslims who don't give that much of a damn wouldn't bother showing up to one of these things.

 

 

I don't think so, we mustn't get confused between most  Muslims who would go to those types of conferences and follow the Koran literally and extremist Muslims who join ISIS and Al-Qaeda

 

In other words the definition of an extremist or fundamentalist Muslim isn't someone who says men and women should pray separately, almost all Muslims believe that.

 

So those Muslims at that conference would be considered moderate unless they were ideologically aligned to extremist groups

[Meshugger]

Moderate Satanists also do not believe in baby-sacrifice, instead they use goats, or just buy the blood from the butcher. They're cool and moderate and all.

[HoonDing]

At least 1/3 of these clowns are now in the Qaliphate.

[Hurlshort]

They may not be intolerant, but the religion is. Christianity is very clear on homosexuality; it is forbidden. As I already said though; the religion is dying so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

 

Religions do change, and it clear that Christianity is shifting towards a much more tolerant view of homosexuality.  The Bible spends a lot more time condemning greed and the worship of money, but that hasn't stopped all these megachurches from going crazy.  

 

But I don't see any evidence to back up your claim that it is a dying religion.  It is way too deeply ingrained in local communities to just disappear.  I can't walk more than a couple blocks without running into a church. 

[Elerond]

 

 

Homosexuality can never be a part of the normal christian lifestyle. Christianity is on it's way out though so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

 

Says who? I know several  Christian churches that openly allow gay people as part of there congregation. For them the most important message in the bible is one of peace, being a good person and loving your neighbour. They don't practice intolerance

 

They may not be intolerant, but the religion is. Christianity is very clear on homosexuality; it is forbidden. As I already said though; the religion is dying so it doesn't really matter.

 

 

Christianity refers group of religious with similar beliefs not singular religion which is why Christianity isn't clear in that matter or any other which isn't one of the core beliefs (inclusion of New Testament bible and keeping it as main holy book, holy trinity, virgin birth, baptism, Holy Communion/Lord's Supper, etc.) that identifies religion to belonging in Christian religions.

 

Bible has passages that seems to forbid certain sexual acts between two men, then it has very obscure passages that may or may not refer sexual acts between two women, but that is more how one wants to interpret what Paul says in his letters. But bible is full of things that it forbids to do that are accepted by most Christian religions in these days.

 

Each Christian religion has their own teaching about homosexuality, which differ from forbidding to acceptance.  

 

Same is true also for Islam, meaning that Islam is only umbrella term for multiple religions that share set of common beliefs and each of those religions have their own interpretation what is Muslims should and should not do and what kind behavior and acts are accepted and what are forbidden.

[Orogun01]

 

 

 

I don't think comparing radical extremist Christians with moderate muslims at a peace conference in the video (if they are indeed moderate and at a peace conference) is a good argument.

 

What?  You mean it's not fair comparing the absolute worst of one group with those who are considered the "best" of the other group?

 

That's not really fair, moderate can be many things depending on who you ask and in what context, people who call themselves moderate aren't necesarrily moderate, and the more secular muslims who don't give that much of a damn wouldn't bother showing up to one of these things.

 

 

I don't think so, we mustn't get confused between most  Muslims who would go to those types of conferences and follow the Koran literally and extremist Muslims who join ISIS and Al-Qaeda

 

In other words the definition of an extremist or fundamentalist Muslim isn't someone who says men and women should pray separately, almost all Muslims believe that.

 

So those Muslims at that conference would be considered moderate unless they were ideologically aligned to extremist groups

 

So the difference between a moderate Muslim and an extremist one is gun ownership?

[HoonDing]

The kid gloves will have to come off sooner or later.

[Walsingham]

This thread is typical of a warped circular logic. "Muslims believe in eternal war, therefore they must be stopped. If they don't believe in eternal war then they aren't muslim."

 

Give me a break.

 

A few thousand young men with masculinity anxiety and dodgy facial hair does not a justification for ethnic cleansing make.

[BruceVC]

This thread is typical of a warped circular logic. "Muslims believe in eternal war, therefore they must be stopped. If they don't believe in eternal war then they aren't muslim."

 

Give me a break.

 

A few thousand young men with masculinity anxiety and dodgy facial hair does not a justification for ethnic cleansing make.

I don't think anyone is even remotely suggesting that a person can't be called a Muslim unless he believes in eternal war?

 

I may have missed that one

[Namutree]

 

This thread is typical of a warped circular logic. "Muslims believe in eternal war, therefore they must be stopped. If they don't believe in eternal war then they aren't muslim."

 

Give me a break.

 

A few thousand young men with masculinity anxiety and dodgy facial hair does not a justification for ethnic cleansing make.

It's not thousand it's hundred thousands men and women who kill people and threaten all non-muslims and millions of Muslims that supports them.

Have we ever heard from any Muslim officials any words of condemnation for Muslim terrorists? Did any Muslim ever told that Muslim terrorists should be excluded from Muslim communities?

No, we don't hear it. All we ever hear is "we are not all like that"... reassuring as hell.

 

Some do. I've heard condemnation of terrorism from Imams. Over in Dearborn MI almost everyone is Muslim, and the level of hatred for radicals is vehement among almost everyone I've met there. The Muslims are VERY conservative in Dearborn, but they keep it to themselves; kinda like the Mormons.