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"Moderate" Muslims Had a Peace Conference in Norway...


ktchong

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Peace Conference Scandinavia 2013 was a gathering of about 4,000 so-called "moderate" Muslims in Oslo, Norway, on 23-25 March, 2013.  Here was their view on what "moderate" Islam is:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU

 

Now, I did not make those statements.  Those were the self-proclaimed "moderate" beliefs of  "mainstream" or "moderate" Muslims who lived in the West, about 4000 of them who attended the "Peace Conference".  Everyone seemed to agree with the speaker.  

 

So.  Do those beliefs seem "moderate" to you?

Edited by ktchong
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Norway, you have a problem...

Norway? Recently there was a guy arrested on the UK for recruiting people for ISIS, same deal on the US.

 

It is very hard to see Muslims as being peaceful and just as regular people when there are those who are working under pretense.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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If you really want moderate voices, go to http://www.cair.com/ and you will see a socially active, tolerant, and educated Islamic group.  I tend to go to them for most of my informational needs on Islam.

ROFL. You do realize that CAIR is a Muslim Brotherhood front, don't you? Read up on taqiyya.

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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If you really want moderate voices, go to http://www.cair.com/ and you will see a socially active, tolerant, and educated Islamic group.  I tend to go to them for most of my informational needs on Islam.

ROFL. You do realize that CAIR is a Muslim Brotherhood front, don't you? Read up on taqiyya.

 

 

I know all about the accusations, and they are baseless.  There is literally no evidence to back up that relationship.  I have attended CAIR events and spoken with speakers in the past, and they've all been friendly, tolerant, and more interested in education than any agenda. 

 

Plus, McCarthyism, look it up.

Edited by Hurlshot
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Peace Conference Scandinavia 2013 was a gathering of about 4,000 so-called "moderate" Muslims in Oslo, Norway, on 23-25 March, 2013.  Here was their view on what "moderate" Islam is:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU

 

Now, I did not make those statements.  Those were the self-proclaimed "moderate" beliefs of  "mainstream" or "moderate" Muslims who lived in the West, about 4000 of them who attended the "Peace Conference".  Everyone seemed to agree with the speaker.  

 

So.  Do those beliefs seem "moderate" to you?

 

To be honest its not such a bad video and I think you have misunderstood the context, obviously the conference was held because Sunni  Muslims in Norway are concerned with the characterisation around the word  "extremist " that they feel they are being labelled in the same way that Al-Qaeda is.

 

 

What you need to realise about Muslims  is that they take the Koran literally, so for example if you ask a group of Muslims in a mosque " do you believe in this part of the Koran" of course they will say "yes " which is exactly what happened in the video

 

But there types of response is no different to conservative Christians in some parts of the USA, they also believe for example that homosexuality is mortal sign that can never be forgiven and that gay people should be killed

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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If you really want moderate voices, go to http://www.cair.com/ and you will see a socially active, tolerant, and educated Islamic group.  I tend to go to them for most of my informational needs on Islam.

ROFL. You do realize that CAIR is a Muslim Brotherhood front, don't you? Read up on taqiyya.

 

 

I know all about the accusations, and they are baseless.  There is literally no evidence to back up that relationship.  I have attended CAIR events and spoken with speakers in the past, and they've all been friendly, tolerant, and more interested in education than any agenda. 

 

Plus, McCarthyism, look it up.

 

No evidence, or evidence you intentionally ignore? http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/canadian-pm-blasts-cair-ties-hamas There's much more about CAIR on that website.

 

that gay people should be killed

If you claim that's a widespread believe among conservative Christians, you better back that up. Edited by Wrath of Dagon

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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And, those Christians who DO believe that are ALWAYS called out for it by everyone else so POINT. NOT. FOUND.

 

Besdies, don't confuse Christian with Catholic either. They're not (neccessarily) interchangable.

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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No evidence, or evidence you intentionally ignore? http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/canadian-pm-blasts-cair-ties-hamas There's much more about CAIR on that website.

 

that gay people should be killed

If you claim that's a widespread believe among conservative Christians, you better back that up.

 

 

It's an interesting read, but again it's very vague when it comes to actual evidence.  First off, every branch of CAIR is independent, so the odds that some branches can be tied to an iman who supports Hamas is fairly likely.  For example, I've only had experience with CAIR-California, and it has been nothing but positive.  

 

Secondly, this is all about a charity organization that was indicted for providing money to extremists.  CAIR, along with 245 other organizations, were listed as unindicted co-conspirators with the charity organization.  They were cleared in 2011 of the list by a Federal Appeals Court, which your article conveniently left out.

 

And lastly, read the CAIR website.  Is there anything on there that strikes you as extreme?  Are their press releases cause for concern?  Look at the work they are doing to judge them, rather than vague accusations.

Edited by Hurlshot
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No evidence, or evidence you intentionally ignore? http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/canadian-pm-blasts-cair-ties-hamas There's much more about CAIR on that website.

 

that gay people should be killed

If you claim that's a widespread believe among conservative Christians, you better back that up.

 

 

Come now WOD, there are Christian groups in the USA that believe that the earth is 6000 years old. I'm not trying to attack Christianity but people often say " look how radical Muslims are" . But to suggest that there aren't radical Christians with very conservative views is just not true.

 

Radical elements  exist on all sides of aisle, do you really need me to post links around blatant homophobia that exists in the USA due to religious belief?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Plenty of 'moderate' Christians point to the bible when condemning homosexuality.  That's basically what is happening in the video.

 

No it's not. It's not just condemning homosexuality. From the video:

3.12 onwards:

 

"These are general views that every muslim actually has. Every muslim believes in these things."

 

"Everyone in the room, how many of you are normal muslims, you're not extremists, you're not radical, just normal sunni muslims. Please raise your hands" [A lot raise their hands]

 

"How many of you agree that men and women should sit separate? Please raise your hands." [Even more raise their hands]

 

"Everyone agree"

 

"How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Koran... whether it is death or stoning for adultery or whatever it is... that is the best punishment ever possible for humankind.. And that is what we should apply in the world. Who agrees with that?" [Hands are raised again]

 

"Are you all radical extremists?" [laughing and some shaking their heads]

 

"So all of you are saying you are common muslims."

 

As I said, I don't think comparing radical extremist Christians with moderate muslims at a peace conference in the video (if they are indeed moderate and at a peace conference) is a good argument.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist
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Plenty of 'moderate' Christians point to the bible when condemning homosexuality.  That's basically what is happening in the video.

 

Without the stoning and death part. Even most hardcore christians have abandoned that practice.

 

Not all of them are happy about that. 

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Also what you guys need to understand is that the purpose of this particular conference we are seeing in the video  is misplaced IMO

 

The speaker is trying to make a point that in Western countries we object to what we consider  " radical or fundamentalist " Islam . So he is saying " you guys are normal Muslims and you believe that men and women need to worship separately ". So now that most people in the room would obviously agree with that he is making the connection " so who are these so called radical Muslims that Western society talks about"

 

But he is misunderstanding that the main objective to fundamentalist Islam is not the fact that Muslims believe men and women need to worship separately but rather the violence that gets perpetuated in the name of Islamic  by groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda

 

Also there is a valid argument that if you live in Western countries you need to respect there laws which generally protect human rights like your sexual orientation, so there is a reasonable  view that if you live in a Western country you are entitled to practice your religion but you also need to respect the laws of that country and this can create a dichotomy within some Muslim communities as they grapple with the interpretation of  there faith within the boundaries of the laws of that country

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I don't think comparing radical extremist Christians with moderate muslims at a peace conference in the video (if they are indeed moderate and at a peace conference) is a good argument.

 

What?  You mean it's not fair comparing the absolute worst of one group with those who are considered the "best" of the other group?

"Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque

"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)

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Also what you guys need to understand is that the purpose of this particular conference we are seeing in the video  is misplaced IMO

 

The speaker is trying to make a point that in Western countries we object to what we consider  " radical or fundamentalist " Islam . So he is saying " you guys are normal Muslims and you believe that men and women need to worship separately ". So now that most people in the room would obviously agree with that he is making the connection " so who are these so called radical Muslims that Western society talks about"

 

But he is misunderstanding that the main objective to fundamentalist Islam is not the fact that Muslims believe men and women need to worship separately but rather the violence that gets perpetuated in the name of Islamic  by groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda

 

Also there is a valid argument that if you live in Western countries you need to respect there laws which generally protect human rights like your sexual orientation, so there is a reasonable  view that if you live in a Western country you are entitled to practice your religion but you also need to respect the laws of that country and this can create a dichotomy within some Muslim communities as they grapple with the interpretation of  there faith within the boundaries of the laws of that country

These are probably the same people pushing for governments to have Haram and Sharia laws within the countries that they emigrate to. You could imagine the issue of they take to stoning homosexuals. Christianity is not under scrutiny because is mostly flexible, even the Pope has changed the stance on homosexuality and Muslims seem still stuck to the "Let's do Holy war" stage. If these men are truly the moderate ones I would say that Islam still has about 100 years of evolving to do.

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I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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