Is the PoE beta + the update info on target with the KS goal - IE spiritual successor?

[Gromnir]

 

 

They key term here is "spiritual successor". 

which don't mean anything.  seriously. define what qualities make for a spiritual successor?

 

Simple. You extract the spirit from the original game using Animancy, then +1 it, and then put it into the body of a new game...

 

isn't that how the developer's update regarding animancy informed us that those horrific undead monsters were created? or were that how magic item were made... or both? we should probable reread animancy stuff. undead were binding spirit to corpse, yes? actual bind spirit to game probable only results in a game we wish were dead rather than undead.

 

regardless, PoE uses % rather than d20, so we give +5%... unless that violates the spiritual successorship o' the game.

 

is all very confusing... and silly... and pointless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[600lbpanther]

Pretty vague stuff...this spiritual successor business:

 

Giant Bomb:

Spiritual Successor. When a developer creates a game that could be perceived as a new installment in an existing franchise that they've worked on before, but doesn't share the same name due to licensing issues or other reasons, it's called a spiritual successor.

 

Wikipedia:

A spiritual successor,^[1][2] sometimes called a spiritual sequel, is a successor to a work of fiction which does not build upon the storyline established by a previous work as do most traditional prequels or sequels, yet features many of the same elements, themes, and styles as its source material, thereby resulting in its nevertheless being related or similar "in spirit" to its predecessor.

[Seari]

 

 

They key term here is "spiritual successor". 

which don't mean anything.  seriously. define what qualities make for a spiritual successor?

 

Simple. You extract the spirit from the original game using Animancy, then +1 it, and then put it into the body of a new game...

 

Clearly something went wrong LOL

[Elerond]

I'm as leery as the next person of trying to define what 'spiritual successor' means...

 

...but it was obz that deployed the term in the KS, wasn't it?

 

They also defined what they meant with term, which seems not to be comparable with all meanings that people have for such term.

 

With some generic gobbledygook

Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!

 

Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.

And with some more specific details

Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out.

 

We are excited at this chance to create something new, yet reminiscent of those great games and we want you to be a part of it as well.

Added with more specifics about how they will spent money that we gave them

We need to raise $1.1 million to fund an experienced team to do this right. We are asking for more than a lot of the other Kickstarter projects and that’s because we are not only making a game, we are creating a whole new world. That means a new RPG system, entirely new art, new characters and animation and whole lot of lore and dialogue. We’ve also designed the game to have a flexible budget and scope, so if we reach our target budget goal, we have a list great stuff we can add into the mix through stretch goals. And, additional money we raise will go straight into the game to add new levels, companions, NPCs, features, and even entirely new parts of the world which will add hours and hours to the adventure.

And then they added more details about their vision in updates.

 

But regardless do you agree with them or me or anybody about what was promised and meant about PoE being spiritual successor for IE games and how well PoE fulfills those promises and meaning, I think it is overall in that point of time bit moot thing to chew the cud, because PoE fulfill or not fulfill peoples standards for spiritual successor status and that probably will not change significantly in next few months and only thing that people can realistically hope anymore is to get PoE polished so that it will be enjoyable RPG experience regardless of fact can it fulfill one's personal standards for spiritual successor status for IE games. IMHO.

[Gromnir]

 

But regardless do you agree with them or me or anybody about what was promised and meant about PoE being spiritual successor for IE games and how well PoE fulfills those promises and meaning, I think it is overall in that point of time bit moot thing to chew the cud, because PoE fulfill or not fulfill peoples standards for spiritual successor status and that probably will not change significantly in next few months and only thing that people can realistically hope anymore is to get PoE polished so that it will be enjoyable RPG experience regardless of fact can it fulfill one's personal standards for spiritual successor status for IE games. IMHO.

 

the one observation we will add is that in one o' the mattchat videos, feargus observed that resources were already being allocated to the PoE expansion. feargus also expressed certitude that PoE would release in 2014. am guessing based on comments about the south park game, that interview were done more than a month ago... though am admittedly not certain exactly how long ago the actual interview took place. seriously expecting feature changes that would require significant resource costs strikes us as a bit narcissistic. if one could get many thousands o' people to protest overwhelming against a specific feature, then perhaps a change might be implemented, but even that don't seem too likely.  that being said, folks can be lobbying for expansion changes, whether they is explicitly asking for them or not. 

 

now, keep in mind that many boardy observations about game features that don't match what developers has seen from their own testers and QA feedback will be viewed with developer skepticism. is fans who is prognosticating doom based on inclusion or exclusion o' particular features and no doubt the developers who is getting feedback direct from folks playing is listening to the wannabee Oracles at Delphi with more amusement than concern.

 

at the same time, perhaps some boardy will indeed make an interesting observation or come up with a unique solution that had not yet been considered and dismissed by the obsidians months or years ago. the boards is a valuable bit o' cheap advertising for obsidian, but am thinking most fans have a disproportionate sense o' the worth o' the boards to the developers. the reality that the boards, from the developer pov, is mostly noise does not eliminate the possibility that a poster will offer constructive feedback or devise an elegant solution.

 

yeah, anything said here is unlikely to result in changes to PoE, but it is possible that changes to the expansion, which is apparently already being developed, could be implemented. folks might be screaming for PoE changes that is impossible, but that doesn't make expansion changes out of the question... even if the stuff likely to get changes is not meshing with what many current boardies believe is required changes to make PoE a true spiritual successor with the right feel. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Infinitron]

The interview with Feargus took place in late July.

[PrimeJunta]

About that 'spiritual successor...' 

 

I checked with Google, and I couldn't find anywhere on the KS that Obsidian actually used the phrase 'spiritual successor' to describe P:E. Outside the comments, the only instances of that phrase I found referred to T:ToN, and... to Path of the Damned, which they did promise is a 'spiritual successor' to Heart of Fury.

 

Interesting how the mind works. I could've sworn 'spiritual successor' was headline-level there.

[IndiraLightfoot]

About that 'spiritual successor...' 

 

I checked with Google, and I couldn't find anywhere on the KS that Obsidian actually used the phrase 'spiritual successor' to describe P:E. Outside the comments, the only instances of that phrase I found referred to T:ToN, and... to Path of the Damned, which they did promise is a 'spiritual successor' to Heart of Fury.

 

Interesting how the mind works. I could've sworn 'spiritual successor' was headline-level there.

Heh, just what I wrote in my OP! Bizarre, isn't it? Most likely a product of some journalist that have proliferated from there.

[DCParry]

I think it really depends what features you are talking about.

 

Feel of combat - you can quantify this by going back and looking at the old games and having a look at what types of feedback they gave, what the animations looked like, how fast it was, how long characters had to wait between actions, how long combats took in general.

 

I could go on and on, but I really think it's not that hard to see what people mean when describe something as feeling like the IE games. Josh Sawyer also had a powerpoint page on his GDC Presentation dedicated to the IE feels.

 

Please. Please. PUHHLEASE! Stop misusing the word quantifiable. You are are making qualitative judgements, i.e. "of what kind" types of judgements. That is fine. Qualitative judgements are not essentially subjective just as quantitative subjects are not inherently objective. 

 

You have set up a comparative model where you have a definite set of criteria. You are looking at those criteria to develop a qualitative judgement which is correct and valid, given the criteria you have listed.  That is great, fine, perfect, wonderful. People can, however, disagree on the criteria you are using, and this is the where the argument can be fruitful and useful.

[Gromnir]

About that 'spiritual successor...' 

 

I checked with Google, and I couldn't find anywhere on the KS that Obsidian actually used the phrase 'spiritual successor' to describe P:E. Outside the comments, the only instances of that phrase I found referred to T:ToN, and... to Path of the Damned, which they did promise is a 'spiritual successor' to Heart of Fury.

 

Interesting how the mind works. I could've sworn 'spiritual successor' was headline-level there.

to be fair, indira never actual claimed obsidian promised "spiritual successor." he took kickstarter promises and extrapolated that phrase. after a few pages, folks adopted indira language.

 

*shrug*

 

"Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

 

"Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing. At Obsidian, we have the people responsible for many of those classic games and we want to bring those games back… and that’s why we’re here - we need your help to make it a reality!"

 

from a practical pov, is there a difference between imagining promises based on the above as 'posed to spiritual successor? as we noted elsewhere, the more vague obsidian made their promises, ironically, the more they opened themselves up to criticism from those who ain't seeking to be fair. can PoE possibly pay homage to the ie games if it doesn't include __________ ? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Matt516]

About that 'spiritual successor...' 

 

I checked with Google, and I couldn't find anywhere on the KS that Obsidian actually used the phrase 'spiritual successor' to describe P:E. Outside the comments, the only instances of that phrase I found referred to T:ToN, and... to Path of the Damned, which they did promise is a 'spiritual successor' to Heart of Fury.

 

Interesting how the mind works. I could've sworn 'spiritual successor' was headline-level there.

 

Although this kind of semantics is mostly silly semantics IMO, it is a decent point. What they actually said (on the KS page) was:

 

"Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration ofPlanescape: Torment.

 

Combat uses a tactical real-time with pause system - positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success. The world map is dotted with unique locations and wilderness ripe for exploration and questing. You’ll create your own character and collect companions along the way – taking him or her not just through this story, but, with your continued support, through future adventures. You will engage in dialogues that are deep, and offer many choices to determine the fate of you and your party. …and you'll experience a story that explores mature themes and presents you with complex, difficult choices to shape how your story plays out.

 

We are excited at this chance to create something new, yet reminiscent of those great games and we want you to be a part of it as well."

 

Emphasis mine. Now like I said - that essentially boils down to "spiritual successor" IMO - Buuuuttt..... I think your point is worthwhile considering the small but vocal minority of people claiming that by not including X element (often combat XP but it could be anything) OE has somehow "betrayed" its backers or lied to everyone. They didn't technically promise a "spiritual successor", they promised something "new, yet reminiscent of those great games". So (although I honestly think the difference is academic) if you want to get super legalistic about it, those arguments really don't have a leg to stand on.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Matt516

[PrimeJunta]

@Indira yes, your OP is what got me using google-fu on the case. It appears they really didn't. I suspect the association may have come from the T:ToN KS. That was explicitly pitched as a spiritual successor, so P:E got lumped in with it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Matt516: Yeah, I picked up the same contradictions in my OP, and may I add:

Saying that they want to "bring those games back" is even stronger than an IE spiritual successor. it could be taken as "make a similar game, but in the 2010s".

[Gromnir]

Matt516: Yeah, I picked up the same contradictions in my OP, and may I add:

Saying that they want to "bring those games back" is even stronger than an IE spiritual successor. it could be taken as "make a similar game, but in the 2010s".

 

*insert eye-roll here*

 

we gave indira benefit o' the doubt that there functional isn't a difference 'tween actual promises and spiritual successor nonsense, but trying to use as a bolstering of the initial flawed argument is bold... amusing, but bold.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sensuki]

snip

Point taken.

[Seari]

 

 

 

They key term here is "spiritual successor". 

which don't mean anything.  seriously. define what qualities make for a spiritual successor?

 

Simple. You extract the spirit from the original game using Animancy, then +1 it, and then put it into the body of a new game...

 

Clearly something went wrong LOL

 

They put the extracted spirit into the body of a new game using a sledgehammer, cutting off all the parts that were hanging out afterwards, and then they filled the gaping holes with unnecessary ****. That's how I feel about it right now anyways. They still have time to clean the ****stained  wounds.

[Tartantyco]

You're responding to yourself, Seari...

[Seari]

Nothing wrong with talking to yourself once in a while.

[Niccolado]

From the front page of OE's KS:

 

[.... So does Poe, so far, capture the nostalgia of the classic RPGs BG, IWD and PST?

 

Have Josh & Co brought these games back, or have we got some new CRPG that are surprisingly different from the classics?

 

In short, is it a spiritual successor of the IE games?

 

IMHO? YES!

Ofcource, theres plenty of bugs yet in the game - naturally since its still in early beta - but I have clocked minimum 21 hours so far since I started betatesting PoE this monday. And being a busy man with work and responsibilities thats pretty hefty imo! And that alone should tell you how much I am in love with this game!

[Ink Blot]

Nothing wrong with talking to yourself once in a while.

I always make the observation that this is sometimes the only intelligent conversation one can get.

[Zeckul]

All the ingredients are obviously there, now it's a matter of chemistry and incubation.

[morhilane]

I am in the group that believe that they succeeded in getting the "feels" of the old IE games. Although, has opposed to get exactly one game down closely matched, it's a mismatch of multiple games put together. It's a lot more BG1 and IWD than BG2 for example (first one in the series, more open world, no kits, lower levels, etc).

 

Also, I didn't back PoE because I wanted a clone of one of the IE games. I just wanted a game in the same genre: party based isometric RtWP story-based game.

[Namutree]

 

IMHO? YES!

Ofcource, theres plenty of bugs yet in the game - naturally since its still in early beta - but I have clocked minimum 21 hours so far since I started betatesting PoE this monday. And being a busy man with work and responsibilities thats pretty hefty imo! And that alone should tell you how much I am in love with this game!

 

How fun the game is doesn't affect whether or not it is a spiritual successor. That said, you certainly have the right attitude about the game. We should just have fun and forget it's association with the IE games. Doing so makes it a lot easier to accept the bigger changes.