Is the PoE beta + the update info on target with the KS goal - IE spiritual successor?

[archangel979]

@Indira I'm not going to try the EE. I've read up thoroughly on it and am convinced it would want me to gnaw off my foot at the ankle. The things I didn't like about BG1 could not possibly have been fixed in the EE, whereas the things I did have been messed with.

Do tell us more. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

@Indira I'm not going to try the EE. I've read up thoroughly on it and am convinced it would want me to gnaw off my foot at the ankle. The things I didn't like about BG1 could not possibly have been fixed in the EE, whereas the things I did have been messed with.

Almost everything in the EE can be achieved by installing BGT, and the original content isn't very good.

 

It is easier to mod and has more things you can change than BG2 though. In a few years and several good mods are created, it might edge out the originals for the go-to for classic D&D RPGs. YMMV.

[Starwars]

I replayed BG a few years ago. Found it alright though some sections were so mindnumbingly boring I wanted to downright uninistall the game (the Cloakwood bits prior to gaining access to Baldur's Gate). Urgh.

 

As far as PoE goes, I'd definitely says it feels like a spiritual successor. There's no question about that at all in my mind. The question for me is how good and fun it will be in the end.

[IndiraLightfoot]

@Indira I'm not going to try the EE. I've read up thoroughly on it and am convinced it would want me to gnaw off my foot at the ankle. The things I didn't like about BG1 could not possibly have been fixed in the EE, whereas the things I did have been messed with.

The quick loot feature alone in the latest patch makes it very smooth to play. The new UI has grown on me, and what KaineParker said, but vice versa, most of the mods you need are already installed and ready to use in BGEE. The new content I have encountered have been slightly under par, but still, it's new stuff, so not bad at all.

Edited September 8, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Ineth]

BG1 vanilla is superior! The beautiful avatars.

 

Best played at 640x480 @ 160Hz on a 22" CRT Monitor

 

Imo 1280x720 (via widescreen mod) on a 22'' monitor is a good compromise between crispness, character size, "authentic feel", and "modern player expectations".

 

At least that's how I like to play the Infinity Engine games these days.

 

I've seen people play them at the native resolution of their modern gaming monitors, and it looks ridiculous. Half of the map fitting on one screen at the same time, with tiny characters running about - feels more like an RTS than an RPG...

 

Otoh, I don't think I could bring myself to go so far as to strictly stick to the small resolutions (with 4:3 aspect ratio) that the games where made for, which unless I'm mistaken was 640x480 for BG/IWD and 800x600 for BG2/IWD2.

[Sensuki]

I have a Sony GDM-FW900 as well, so 1280x800 @ 120Hz for IWD, BG2 etc is pretty nice as well

[Ineth]

I am just playing BG2EE and having loads of fun. I don't expect PoE to beat BG2EE on its first try even if all the complaints are taken more seriously and implemented into the game. That is why I didn't mention it at all. Just like BG had two games to reach BG2 perfection, I will let PoE get to #2 before expecting it to compete vs BG2.

 

Yeah, it's easy to forget that PoE is supposed to be a low-level adventure and not a BG2-level one; I'm guilty of that myself in some of my comments...

 

The upside is, that there is still hope that for the expansion/sequel, the designers will come around and add the (hard-counter based) epic mage duels...

(Though ideally using BG2 + SCS "Smarter Mages" as a model, rather than the cheese-encumbered vanilla BG2 mages.)

[IndiraLightfoot]

When BG came out 1998, and the Sword Coast expansion was unbeknownst, I still loved the game immensely. In fact, I usually have an easier time liking lower-level CRPGs (the same goes for PnP). Making fun high-level scenarios are in certain respects harder. However, obsiously, you'll have loads more character development done when you are at those high levels.

[archangel979]

BG2 is not just epic because of Mage duels (although those help), it is just expanded in almost everything compared to BG1. More and better companions, Strongholds, more interesting quests, more epic battles (even the non mage duel ones), more different areas to explore (under see, underdark, other planes..), better main villain, Bodhi vs Shadow Thieves choice, more classes and races, more spells, better weapon proficiency system and so on. 

 

For PoE 2 to be as good as BG2, it will need to expand on PoE 1 design a lot as well. They have stronghold and massive dungeon from the start but we have yet to see how that will actually work. NWN2 stronghold was badly designed as you could not lose even if you didn't put a single gold piece into it (or lose anything else), I would rather have 7 different strongholds BG2 style than another NWN2 one. 

[Sensuki]

BG1 was better in some ways than BG2 though. Wilderness Maps for one. Feeling of Exploration. The Bandit Camp quest was awesome due to the simplicity. Four ways to access the area and you could steal the notes in Tazok's chests without setting off any alarms. The Iron Ore Conspiracy was a good plot as well. Also had better avatars. Durlag's Tower still beats any BG2 Dungeons.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Indeed, Sensuki, those are the areas where BG1 truly shines. And personally, strongholds just don't do it for me, so I found the ones in NWN2 and BG2 equally annoying. That said, BG2 is really brilliant, and sometimes surpasses BG1 for other reasons. The city quests, for instance, were on the whole more interesting there.

[archangel979]

BG1 was better in some ways than BG2 though. Wilderness Maps for one. Feeling of Exploration. The Bandit Camp quest was awesome due to the simplicity. Four ways to access the area and you could steal the notes in Tazok's chests without setting off any alarms. The Iron Ore Conspiracy was a good plot as well. Also had better avatars. Durlag's Tower still beats any BG2 Dungeons.

That is why I said almost everything. Exploration was awesome in BG1, and pretty relaxing. Just running through maps, uncovering black and watching lots of green (which is considered a relaxing color) and listening to nature sounds. Plot was OK, but not BG2. I never liked Durlag tower or any huge dungeons. If the dungeon has more than 2 levels I just want to leave it.

I actually like that Mega dungeon in PoE will not be finishable in one go and that I will need to come back to it more than once. Otherwise I would never finish it.

Edited September 8, 2014 by archangel979

[Sensuki]

Yeah I think Strongholds could have used more quest content BUT that said, you were supposed to be embarking on a very long journey Asylum through Underdark so maybe that's why they didn't bother. Also time.

 

Crazy how much content they built in the 2 years or whatever.

[bonarbill]

Stll haven't played the beta yet (I'm still waiting for the Linux version), but i have been looking at videos.  It definitely looks like an infinity engine game.  As for the combat, I can't give a critique on it, but if it doesn't have BG2 retarded mages that spam contingencies and spell triggers that made the combat unbalanced and unfun, then I'll probably enjoy the combat more than BG2.  Hopefully I'll enjoy the combat as much as Icewind Dale.

 

Also, I still think the Stamina/endurance system is just a waste of time.  It's just an added layer of complexity that will make the game harder to balance.

Edited September 8, 2014 by bonarbill

[Sensuki]

I actually like that Mega dungeon in PoE will not be finishable in one go and that I will need to come back to it more than once. Otherwise I would never finish it.

I dunno about that, it's in a pretty convenient location (I know where it is)

Edited September 8, 2014 by Sensuki

[PrimeJunta]

Some friends of mine found a medieval vaulted cellar under their home, leading to the crypts of a nearby abbey. True story.

[Namutree]

At the moment poe could go either way to being an IE successor. If the attributes get boosted and a more passive fighter build is possible than I can see it happening. The promise of the "epic exploration of BG" is probably not going to happen though.

 

Will poe be as good as the IE games?

 

I think poe will be better than IWD1/IWD2 but worse than BG1/BG2.

 

Honestly though I know not to think of it as a spiritual successor. Doing so was driving me crazy. Best to just appreciate the game for what it is rather than how it fares as a spiritual successor.

[Monte Carlo]

It's too early to tell because we don't know much about NPCs and plot.

 

If they are utterly, utterly *brilliant* then they might mitigate the soulless, dull combat and dour, mechanics-obsessed systems behind them.

[vril]

It is certainly on the right track, the attribute system even with its problems is still better than AD&D.

[Zansatsu]

It feels like an IE game. Will it be a worthy successor? Fingers crossed. A lot of good feed back has been pouring out.

[Lychnidos]

I've been reading the BB forums since it's release and I was surprised to find that for some people the essence of the IE games and what is need for PoE to be a spiritual successor are some simple formulae for calculating damage, health or whatnot. At first I found that really odd, to some extent I still do, but I come to somewhat understand the issue. For people that started with DnD  or other PnP they are more important and familiar due to the way those are played, but to someone like me that has never played PnP they are things of little importance that go on in the background. To me the essence is the way we interact with the NPCs and the game world, and those from what I've seen are on the right track.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Lychnidos

[Seari]

For me the IE games are basically the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series. Planescape: Torment is a special kind of beast, but I don't see it as an "IE game".

 

With that in mind, how can you have a BG/IWD successor without their amazing combat system. Well you can't. And that's why currently I don't regard Pillars of Eternity to be an IE successor, despite it trying to be.

 

Obsidian tried to innovate the combat system, and in doing so, removed/missed the "magic" that made it great. Quite literally

 

p.s. IWD2 sucks and I'm never gonna finish that boring piece of ****, but I can't deny that it's pretty amazing for it's short development time span.

[illathid]

BG1 was better in some ways than BG2 though. Wilderness Maps for one. Feeling of Exploration. The Bandit Camp quest was awesome due to the simplicity. Four ways to access the area and you could steal the notes in Tazok's chests without setting off any alarms. The Iron Ore Conspiracy was a good plot as well. Also had better avatars. Durlag's Tower still beats any BG2 Dungeons.

 

See this is something I have trouble understanding.  I absolutely hated the wilderness maps and exploration in BG1. I vastly preferred BG2 in that regard. I'm mean different strokes for different folks, and all that, but it was all just so boring to me.

[IndiraLightfoot]

illathid: Good sir, you didn't immuhrse yourself enough.

[Zansatsu]

I enjoyed BG more than any IE game. BG changed my life. Perhaps it was just the right game at the right time.