Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Josh Sawyer visually explains Attack & Recovery

attack recovery weapon style armor style Josh Saywer

  • Please log in to reply
88 replies to this topic

#1
TrueMenace

TrueMenace

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 443 posts
  • Location:The Celestial Sapling Inn, Twin Elms.
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

He replied to a tweet from someone asking a question about attack & recovery, pretty dam neat. Thanks Josh!

https://twitter.com/...853358557462530

 

3VyB7gs.jpg


Edited by TrueMenace, 02 September 2014 - 10:10 AM.

  • Pidesco, wanderon, Headbomb and 13 others like this

#2
Wintersong

Wintersong

    Tempest of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 346 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I hope that a pic like that is included in the manual.


  • Karkarov, Hormalakh, Marky and 1 other like this

#3
IndiraLightfoot

IndiraLightfoot

    Apex of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 5551 posts
  • Location:Over the Hills and Far Away
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

I just love how ambitious Josh is on stuff like this. Still, I couldn't help thinking, what if all of those cast, attack and recovery rates were instead translated into an attack order for all the characters and critters involved in combat, and then it was locked into some kind of invisi-turn (of the fake kind, like in NWN2, for instance) system that just decides the order of the engagement taking place.


Edited by IndiraLightfoot, 02 September 2014 - 10:05 AM.


#4
swordofthesith

swordofthesith

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 143 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

Brill! Thanks for sharing this TtrueMenace!


  • TrueMenace likes this

#5
Monte Carlo

Monte Carlo

    Vorpal Panzerfaust of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 6720 posts
  • Location:England, This Blessed Plot
  • Xbox Gamertag:MonteCarlo
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

What about missile weapons and firearms?


  • Hormalakh likes this

#6
Sensuki

Sensuki

    Subway Apathist of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 9965 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Steam:STEAM_0:1:1229809
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

2H weapons confirmed OP.



#7
Monte Carlo

Monte Carlo

    Vorpal Panzerfaust of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 6720 posts
  • Location:England, This Blessed Plot
  • Xbox Gamertag:MonteCarlo
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

^ I suppose it's quasi-realistic, seeing as 2H swords were quite fast. It also encourages interesting unarmoured beserker-mit-zweihander builds.


  • drgonzo, aluminiumtrioxid, crackwise and 2 others like this

#8
Monte Carlo

Monte Carlo

    Vorpal Panzerfaust of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 6720 posts
  • Location:England, This Blessed Plot
  • Xbox Gamertag:MonteCarlo
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Although it's pretty Sawyer-esque to publish important data on twitter rather than on the Backer's Forum :facepalm:

 

I know he has little time for us, but the contempt is palpable.



#9
mutonizer

mutonizer

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Cool!

 

The heroic figures of our new age:

- little stilleto wielding guy in heavy armor and huge shield with 3 might

- 5 naked mages wielding 2hd ultra heavy weapons with 18 might

 

\o/


  • Zansatsu likes this

#10
Valorian

Valorian

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 971 posts

Fighting with two medium weapons yields the same number of attacks as fighting with a two-handed weapon.

Is the damage of larger one-handed weapons comparable to that of two-handed weapons in PoE?



#11
IndiraLightfoot

IndiraLightfoot

    Apex of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 5551 posts
  • Location:Over the Hills and Far Away
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Cool!

 

The heroic figures of our new age:

- little stilleto wielding guy in heavy armor and huge shield with 3 might

- 5 naked mages wielding 2hd ultra heavy weapons with 18 might

 

\o/

Well, if anything, you may have accidentally solved the lack of weight to attributes problem. :)

What if Might 3 only was enough for daggers and stilettos, and that you needed Might 16 for 2H-swords, for instance.

Same thing could work for spells and talents. Then we could disregard their relative light-weight and those sliding scales, and get a bunch of useful thresholds to ponder over when we're making builds.



#12
swordofthesith

swordofthesith

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 143 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

Fighting with two medium weapons yields the same number of attacks as fighting with a two-handed weapon.

Is the damage of larger one-handed weapons comparable to that of two-handed weapons in PoE?

 

No. But the advantage of fighting with two medium sized weapons gives you the ability to mix damage types (slashing, crushing, piercing) while with you're 2 handed weapon you're stuck to whatever damage type the weapon has. And mobs are vulnerable to certain types of damage. Example: The beetles in Dryford Crossing are extremely vulnerable to weapons with crushing damage. You're two hander might still be hitting for decent damage but that BB Priest will rip/stomp/WTF stuff up with his starting mace.


  • Matt516 likes this

#13
Valorian

Valorian

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 971 posts

 

Fighting with two medium weapons yields the same number of attacks as fighting with a two-handed weapon.

Is the damage of larger one-handed weapons comparable to that of two-handed weapons in PoE?

 

No. But the advantage of fighting with two medium sized weapons gives you the ability to mix damage types (slashing, crushing, piercing) while with you're 2 handed weapon you're stuck to whatever damage type the weapon has. And mobs are vulnerable to certain types of damage. 

 

 

It is possible to switch weapons during combat in PoE. It takes what, 2 seconds?

 

Base damage is king (especially when you don't lose any attack speed...), vulnerabilities are just a situational bonus.



#14
mutonizer

mutonizer

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Well you do have 4 weapon set quick slot right? I think I saw that somewhere in a video. Means your 2hder dudes can easily switch between any damage type and remain at their ultimate damage potential, on the fly, during combat. 

 

Hmm, thinking about it, doesn't having weapon slots make the entire point of having damage type void? I mean, EVERYONE will have weapons slots filled with weapons of each types, since they are more slots than types?

 

 

As an aside, I just cannot put away the picture of what that would give in D&D...

Little halfling who's weaker than a mouse but super agile, in full plate armor with a huge tower shield, wielding a stiletto. Followed by 5 completely stupid (makes it easier to AE in the melee!) naked half-orcs wizards with pointy hats, all wielding massive 2hd great axes. Someone with artistic skills need to make a picture of that :)


Edited by mutonizer, 02 September 2014 - 10:27 AM.

  • crackwise likes this

#15
Sensuki

Sensuki

    Subway Apathist of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 9965 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Steam:STEAM_0:1:1229809
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

No. But the advantage of fighting with two medium sized weapons gives you the ability to mix damage types (slashing, crushing, piercing) while with you're 2 handed weapon you're stuck to whatever damage type the weapon has. And mobs are vulnerable to certain types of damage. Example: The beetles in Dryford Crossing are extremely vulnerable to weapons with crushing damage. You're two hander might still be hitting for decent damage but that BB Priest will rip/stomp/WTF stuff up with his starting mace.


Or you could just switch to a 2H weapon of the right damage type. Pollaxes do best of Slash/Crush and then have an Estoc in the other slot (which is far and away the best melee weapon atm). That seems to be the way to go atm.

Edited by Sensuki, 02 September 2014 - 10:30 AM.


#16
Valorian

Valorian

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 971 posts

 

 

Hmm, thinking about it, doesn't having weapon slots make the entire point of having damage type void? I mean, EVERYONE will have weapons slots filled with weapons of each types, since they are more slots than types?

 

 

It makes it a superfluous tiny inconvenience, nothing more. Especially if the penalty for switching is 2 pitiful seconds and you have plenty of slots to start with.



#17
Matt516

Matt516

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1159 posts
  • Steam:Pungent Raindeer King
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer

Something to remember before crying "imbalance!" - numbers can be tuned. If the damage ranges for 2H weapons are adjusted properly, they won't necessarily be OP. Even if they do more damage, if the benefits from having a shield or a second weapon (more defense/more enchantments/etc) outweigh the damage increase from 2H weapons in some cases, there could be a place for them both. That said, I did think that was a bit strange - I could've sworn 2H weapons had a slower attack speed than that (thought it was 1s attack, 1.5s recovery base or something like that). I've also heard that fighting with only a single 1H weapon actually gives a +15 accuracy bonus in addition to the slowdown.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is.. this is a great visual infographic, but I highly doubt that 2H weapons doing more damage would be a surprise to OE if it is true. All these values are subject to change. What we need now is the next patch so we can test the combat out and see for ourselves.


  • Zansatsu likes this

#18
Elerond

Elerond

    One of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 2649 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Currently there is two weapon set lots open to use, two are locked and there isn't currently way to open them. But in my understanding the plan is to make it so that fighters and probably other front liners are only ones that get all four set slots open.


  • Pray likes this

#19
Shadenuat

Shadenuat

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 900 posts
  • Location:Russia
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

This system is why it can be so hard sometimes to synchronize what characters are doing in beta, everyone does stuff at their own pace, makes me use slow-mo very often to know who recovered from what.

Maybe idle animations could help with that.

 

Also some spells seem to cast faster than others, although it feels like all spells could use a slower cast rate to make them stand out more like in BG.

Perhaps casting time can be slower, with spells more powerful, with spare seconds added to cast recovery without touching balance of speeds, but making spellcasting stand out more.

 

But I'm not sure. Tweaking all this to make game run at smoother pace would require time I guess.



#20
wanderon

wanderon

    Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 1273 posts
  • Location:Upstate NY
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Some (smart) weapons already come with two damage types and are somehow able to discern which type will hurt which enemy more... :w00t:







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: attack, recovery, weapon style, armor style, Josh Saywer

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users