The contribution women make towards gaming development

[Malcador]

IMO what he is really saying is that the original target and fanbase of development companies  consisted of  a certain demographic, white males. This is now changing as the target audience becomes more inclusive and there is a resistance to this change as games evolve  to cater for this new audience

 

He makes some valid points..and I hate to say this but haven't I been saying this for ages?

What of her points are valid ? Once you parse out all the name calling she's engaging in (go go SJW). Seems more like an attack on strawmen.

 

Polygon also has this gem

 

One side has folded its arms, slumped its shoulders while pouting like an obstinate child that has learned they are getting a little brother or sister but wants to remain the singular focus of his parents' affection.

 

The other side has opened its arms, unable to contain its love and compassion, because they understand they are no longer alone.

 

This week, the obstinate child threw a temper tantrum, and the industry was stuck in the metaphorical grocery store as everyone was forced to suffer through it together. But unlike a child, the people behind these temper tantrums are hurting others. It's time to grow up. Let's not wait until next week to start.

Always an easy tactic to toss your opposition into a bucket, apparently Quinn stands for love and compassion whereas anyone on her case is a child. Media

Edited August 28, 2014 by Malcador

[Meshugger]

I mean if you're carpenter that builds an awesome chair. You mass produce it and the people buy it in droves. But suddenly a guy says that there's a chair culture out there that demands to change it. It simply does not add up.

[Meshugger]

To sum it up, i think the guy is a:

 

[Meshugger]

 

I don't even understand what he is trying to say.

 

That's because it's a she.

 

 

Touché :D

[BruceVC]

 

IMO what he is really saying is that the original target and fanbase of development companies  consisted of  a certain demographic, white males. This is now changing as the target audience becomes more inclusive and there is a resistance to this change as games evolve  to cater for this new audience

 

He makes some valid points..and I hate to say this but haven't I been saying this for ages?

What of her points are valid ? Once you parse out all the name calling she's engaging in (go go SJW). Seems more like an attack on strawmen.

 

 

I agree she is probably a little critical and vituperative but lets take the emotion out of her post for a second. What she is basically saying is much of this discourse on forums around Anita and other feminist issues  is based around a dislike of the changes to the status quo. For example look at this link she mentioned

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/digital-culture/dont-believe-the-conspiracy-gaming-has-bigger-problems-than-corruption/article20230850/#dashboard/follows/

 

You cannot justify someone  saying " that women needs to be raped " to teach them a lesson and the abuse heaped against Zoe from some is egregious and does  smack of misogyny.

 

In summary she feels, and I agree with it on many areas, the main reason for all this resistance to SJ issues is from people who fear change as they feel threatened that the gaming  kingdom of the while male is changing. But guys these changes are good and we should welcome them. No one  is suggesting we become marginalized but we must become more accepting of new demographics

[Malcador]

Knew from the start the press would run with this as an oppressed woman and forget everything else, heh. Resistance to SJ issues isn't some huge bloc, you have trolls, psyschos, some people with issues with what is being presented. And Sarkeesian and Quinn are two women, not an entire ideology, it's not logical to see them getting negative responses and then determine that "oh it's resistance to change and misogyny!".

 

After all, it's bad to label a whole group and attribute a stance to them you find convenient. A lot of resistance to SJ issues in gaming media is people never take well to being preached at.

[Fighter]

You cannot justify someone  saying " that women needs to be raped " to teach them a lesson and the abuse heaped against Zoe from some is egregious and does  smack of misogyny.

 

Some feminists want to cut men's **** off but you wouldn't accept that as an argument.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Fighter

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

 

Tasty rage.

Being called subhuman rabble by SJWs, must be Thursday.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

You cannot justify someone saying " that women needs to be raped " to teach them a lesson and the abuse heaped against Zoe from some is egregious and does smack of misogyny.

Some feminists want to cut men's **** off but you wouldn't accept that as an argument.

Reading this made me laugh so hard I spit out my tea.

[BruceVC]

Knew from the start the press would run with this as an oppressed woman and forget everything else, heh. Resistance to SJ issues isn't some huge bloc, you have trolls, psyschos, some people with issues with what is being presented. And Sarkeesian and Quinn are two women, not an entire ideology, it's not logical to see them getting negative responses and then determine that "oh it's resistance to change and misogyny!".

 

After all, it's bad to label a whole group and attribute a stance to them you find convenient. A lot of resistance to SJ issues in gaming media is people never take well to being preached at.

 

No offense but you guys need to start looking more introspectively  and honestly at the reasons why you really seem to object to certain SJ  changes. I am not going to presume to tell you why you think certain things, only you can know why you have a certain opinion on a matter. But I'll say this, you shouldn't be seeing this someone preaching to you, you should see this as someone saying we need to make certain changes to games in the interest of inclusivity. Its only a negative change if you see it as one

 

 

You cannot justify someone  saying " that women needs to be raped " to teach them a lesson and the abuse heaped against Zoe from some is egregious and does  smack of misogyny.

 

Some feminists want to cut men's **** off but you wouldn't accept that as an argument.

 

 

No those types of comments are unhelpful and counter productive so I wouldn't support or ever condone comments like that from anyone

[Malcador]

No offense but you guys need to start looking more introspectively  and honestly at the reasons why you really seem to object to certain SJ  changes. I am not going to presume to tell you why you think certain things, only you can know why you have a certain opinion on a matter. But I'll say this, you shouldn't be seeing this someone preaching to you, you should see this as someone saying we need to make certain changes to games in the interest of inclusivity. Its only a negative change if you see it as one

Don't really object to them in the real world, still not concerned gaming possesses injustice especially with how prickly folk are these days. Just that in gaming at least, the SJWs always have this attitude of fall in line or be fell upon, some real loons out there - criticize Sarkeesian and then ta-da you are condoning her rape and death threats. All of that tends to get people's backs up and then nothing gets done.

 

As for certain SJ changes, certainly didn't see Alexander mention any, other than promising a brave new future of "art" games that explore "personal experiences", heh.

[Meshugger]

- Should Slayer compose songs that appeal more to minorities? After all, more black people listen to them than before.

- Should George RR Martin write in characters that appeal more to women? After all, more women read his books than before.

- Should Paul Thomas Andersson direct a movie that includes transgender people? After all, more transgenders watch his movies than before.

 

Should they, according to the lingo of these people, grow up?

[Fighter]

No offense but you guys need to start looking more introspectively  and honestly at the reasons why you really seem to object to certain SJ  changes. I am not going to presume to tell you why you think certain things, only you can know why you have a certain opinion on a matter. But I'll say this, you shouldn't be seeing this someone preaching to you, you should see this as someone saying we need to make certain changes to games in the interest of inclusivity. Its only a negative change if you see it as one

 

Because these people will not stop at getting a more diverse selection of games. They will want to police what everyone plays. They will keep hounding developers until what only they deem is appropriate is allowed in and everything "offensive" is made taboo or else people be branded misogynists.

[NWN_babaYaga]

Like the nazis did. I know it. We had a pretty good education about that and being "entnazifiziert" means you know EVERYTHING about the bad things of them...so i think it´s pretty clear the agenda is 1/1 nazi style in the end. With one difference... it sounds pretty hip and cool and good. The terms they use make you feel a very good person... but f*** that. It´s a tyranny that will not accept any other point of view and surely will destroy freedom of creativity because everything is considered to be "offensive"...

 

The real Nazis also did not thought about their idiology as something bad.... NO, it was to serve the higher goal. Simple as that. And no other oppinion was allowed... we already see that. Trough the media and also by laws. Thats why many red pill people know what they are FEMINAZIS.

Edited August 28, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Barothmuk]

Why not?

 

- Should Slayer compose songs that appeal more to minorities? After all, more black people listen to them than before.

Music seems like a different bag of fish to visual mediums. The content of Slayer's music doesn't depict or exclude any ethnic groups as far as I'm aware.

 

- Should George RR Martin write in characters that appeal more to women? After all, more women read his books than before.

"Appeal more to women" is a vague and meaningless platitude. What fantasy writers should do is write female characters that aren't simply props, prizes or whatever and instead individuals with their own thoughts, motivations and so on like male characters.

 

GRRM's depiction of women is certainly mixed but at the very least better than most male fantasy writers.

 

- Should Paul Thomas Andersson direct a movie that includes transgender people? After all, more transgenders watch his movies than before.

Why not?

[Nonek]

I asked the wife, yes i'm a disgusting subhuman apparently, but i'm her disgusting subhuman. It feels quite nice to have ones identity embraced by the comforting anonymity of a group, I wonder if there's a subhuman gentlemans club I can join?

 

I really thought my opinion of game journalists and SJW's couldn't get any lower, I was wrong.

 

Edit: The funny thing is for the life of me I can't remember doing or saying anything wrong, strange it's almost as if someones condemned me for the actions of a minority, whom are not representative of the majority. Wonder what that is called?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Nonek

[BruceVC]

I asked the wife, yes i'm a disgusting subhuman apparently, but i'm her disgusting subhuman. It feels quite nice to have ones identity embraced by the comforting anonymity of a group, I wonder if there's a subhuman gentlemans club I can join?

 

I really thought my opinion of game journalists and SJW's couldn't get any lower, I was wrong.

 

Edit: The funny thing is for the life of me I can't remember doing or saying anything wrong, strange it's almost as if someones condemned me for the actions of a minority, whom are not representative of the majority. Wonder what that is called?

 

Sorry Nonek but your wife is not exactly going to be objective, after all she is your wife. If you want an opinion about something you aren't sure of around SJ issues  or whether you can do more about a particular situation ask me. I'll be polite but honest

[BruceVC]

 

No offense but you guys need to start looking more introspectively  and honestly at the reasons why you really seem to object to certain SJ  changes. I am not going to presume to tell you why you think certain things, only you can know why you have a certain opinion on a matter. But I'll say this, you shouldn't be seeing this someone preaching to you, you should see this as someone saying we need to make certain changes to games in the interest of inclusivity. Its only a negative change if you see it as one

 

Because these people will not stop at getting a more diverse selection of games. They will want to police what everyone plays. They will keep hounding developers until what only they deem is appropriate is allowed in and everything "offensive" is made taboo or else people be branded misogynists.

 

 

I'm genuinely interested in what you think will happen when "they will police everything and allow only what is appropriate in" ?

 

Can you give some examples of what will change in gaming if this is  allowed to happen because I am unclear around what you mean?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

It feels quite nice to have ones identity embraced by the comforting anonymity of a group, I wonder if there's a subhuman gentlemans club I can join?

We should start one, Sub-Human Atrocious Males. Who wants in on the SHAM?

Edited August 29, 2014 by KaineParker

[ktchong]

"The contribution women make towards gaming development"

 

Boobs.

 

But anyway, one of the legendary founders of computer games is Roberta Williams.  She pioneered many innovations (in her days) that have since become or led to the standards in PC gaming.  As a kindergarten teacher coming from a non-technical background, her main contributions to PC gaming were she made gaming more intuitive instead of mechanical.  Most other founders of the PC gaming were men.  Geeks and nerds.  Programmers and engineers. Their creations were "hardcore", often very unintuitive and complex with steep learning curves.  Their games often have dozens of commands to memorize.  Roberta was dedicated to streamlining her games, to making her games more intuitive, more accessible to everyone.  So even a kindergarten could pick up her game and play it.

 

Many bitter old farts hated Roberta Williams for her contributions.  Like how she practically invented the graphical interface that replaced text parsers in  PC gaming; the old farts at the time hated her (and her company Sierra Online) for supposedly "killing" the text parser interface and Infocom games, (I said, good riddance!)  She also pioneered a mouse-driven control to replace keyboard-based control, and the same group of old farts accused her of "dumbing down" PC gaming. 

 

But she is a legend.  And they were just old farts.

 

P.S. Most of those old farts hang out at GOG nowadays, and they are still pissed at Roberta Williams. Seriously.

Edited August 29, 2014 by ktchong

[BruceVC]

 

It feels quite nice to have ones identity embraced by the comforting anonymity of a group, I wonder if there's a subhuman gentlemans club I can join?

We should start one, Sub-Human Atrocious Males. Who wants in on the SHAM?

 

 

I suppose that's one way of having to address these types of social developments and changes. Turn it into a joke so that you don't have deal with the reality of the situation

[Orogun01]

 

 

It feels quite nice to have ones identity embraced by the comforting anonymity of a group, I wonder if there's a subhuman gentlemans club I can join?

We should start one, Sub-Human Atrocious Males. Who wants in on the SHAM?

 

 

I suppose that's one way of having to address these types of social developments and changes. Turn it into a joke so that you don't have deal with the reality of the situation

 

I don't think that there are going to be any social development or changes; women still don't have an interest on core gaming or STEM fields related to gaming, the majority of core gamers are male. The only thing the SJW could achieve via their tactics is the preservation of their status quo, so they keep playing women as victims, they keep attacking any developer (woman or man) that doesn't share their views.

This is counter development, is change in the opposite direction from progress.

[Volourn]

Plenty of successful women who have contributed to video games. Good on them. Good thing i don't give  a  crap what gender a de is. Why does Bruce? Sexism. That's why. I do wonder how someone like Bruce would have reaction if someone had made a thread entitled

'The contribution men make towards gaming development'

 

 

No doubt he would be hating on it.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

It feels quite nice to have ones identity embraced by the comforting anonymity of a group, I wonder if there's a subhuman gentlemans club I can join?

We should start one, Sub-Human Atrocious Males. Who wants in on the SHAM?

 

 

I suppose that's one way of having to address these types of social developments and changes. Turn it into a joke so that you don't have deal with the reality of the situation

 

I don't think that there are going to be any social development or changes; women still don't have an interest on core gaming or STEM fields related to gaming, the majority of core gamers are male. The only thing the SJW could achieve via their tactics is the preservation of their status quo, so they keep playing women as victims, they keep attacking any developer (woman or man) that doesn't share their views.

This is counter development, is change in the opposite direction from progress.

 

 

You guys keep making the same points that you feel besieged by various SJ initiatives. Is that honestly how you feel, that the various attempts to  raise awareness around issues like the fair representation of the genders in games is about an attack on male gamers?

 

I wont disagree that there are some extreme views but are all SJ endeavours around gaming that bad? And if you agree that there are some that are valid and worthwhile why can we not focus on those and not the Anita campaigns that I understand annoy  most of you? Its like there is no middle ground, either you support Anita or you are vociferously against her and what she stands for

[BruceVC]

 

'The contribution men make towards gaming development'

 

 

No doubt he would be hating on it.

 

That's a terrible analogy, its like saying I want to raise an important forum discussion " we don't have enough white, male presidents in the USA " because I am worried after Obama that we won't see another white, male president in the USA

 

That forum discussion would be irrelevant and illogical