Itemization feels bland

[J.E. Sawyer]

I don't know the exact count of items with detailed histories in the game, but there are dozens and dozens of them.

[AdaMusic]

I don't know the exact count of items with detailed histories in the game, but there are dozens and dozens of them.

Thanks for the answer.

 

Is it possible to finish the game without crafting/enchanting? I feel like both the 2 Witcher games forced the player into crafting, which is something I disliked. In Bethesda games and FNV I feel like it was made optional, which gave the game more depth without taking away immersion/gameplay for those who disliked crafting.

[Seari]

Will there be any weapons that can be crafted by finding pieces of them, like Crom Faeyr in BG2?

[Gulliver]

I think the point that PoE is lower level than BG 2 isn't appreciated enough. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's rpgs where every idiot has magical equipment.

A low level group of adventurers should be mostly equipped with non-magical equipment and the magical equipment it does have should be comparatively weak and bland. Items like Crom Faeyr, Celestial Fury, Carsomyr, Ring of Gaxx or a Staff of the Magi are epic artifacts meant to be wielded and found by people of epic proportions. A group on the level of the one we'll play in PoE should find no more than two or three such items, if that, and only towards the end of the game.

[sb5]

Man I'd be a happy pup if this game was like a turn-based Darklands mechanically.

 

 

I think the interrupt mechanic could be tied better to the weapons. For example a maul should have the chance (read: difficult skill check) to knock someone out (daze, prone,...) on an interrupt move built into the weapon. The duration makes a skill check against fortitude, stand up animation speeds up through constitution because your body is fitter than others halving animation.

Other weapons like a spear could make you trip and fall to the ground, duration defined by reflex save and dexterity allows you to quickly raise up because you're nimble, halving stand up animation.

Visual feedback on skill checks and applied statuses is of course very necessary.

 

Would this give "meaningless" attributes a better definition, if survival was tied to them?

 

Every now and then I'm playing a now freeware tabletop Battletech PC conversion game called "Titans of Steel Warring Suns" which has these mechanics and it is very deep and fun IMO (and very brutal, yet rewarding).

[AdaMusic]

I think the point that PoE is lower level than BG 2 isn't appreciated enough. If there is one thing I can't stand, it's rpgs where every idiot has magical equipment.

A low level group of adventurers should be mostly equipped with non-magical equipment and the magical equipment it does have should be comparatively weak and bland. Items like Crom Faeyr, Celestial Fury, Carsomyr, Ring of Gaxx or a Staff of the Magi are epic artifacts meant to be wielded and found by people of epic proportions. A group on the level of the one we'll play in PoE should find no more than two or three such items, if that, and only towards the end of the game.

 

I agree totally. That doesn't mean that lore items with history should be rare. You can have a crappy dagger that has a cute description; still much more interesting than a Sword +1 that you just crafted.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Is it possible to finish the game without crafting/enchanting? 

 

It should be, yes.  Crafting is really just there to let people fine-tune things.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Will there be any weapons that can be crafted by finding pieces of them, like Crom Faeyr in BG2?

 

Yes.  Not many, but a few, and they won't be as powerful as Crom Faeyr given the power spectrum for PoE.

[Malekith]

 

So far the only enchatments we have seen is simple numerical values, and percentages, which feels boring. BG2 had weapons that had more varied effects, from (bleeding,stun,life stealing,slow) on hit, to passive buffs and protections(mind shield,negative plane Protection, haste etc.)while equiped, to active abilities and spells.

 

This isn't true.  If you look at the enchantment list, you will see that many of the things you mentioned are in the list (e.g. Wounding, Stunning, Draining are all in the weapon list -- only "slow" from your list isn't) and more.  Though there aren't currently recipes for them, there are also Spellbind effects for weapons and armor (allow you to cast specific spells while the item is equipped) and Spell Holding for shields (go off when the holder is hit with a Crit).  While the core list of effects are likely to remain accessible via the enchantment system, many of the Spellbind and Spell Holding effects are more likely to remain unique properties.

 

We also have to build up to a BG2 level of power.  PoE is not in the same "power band" as BG2.  It's more comparable to somewhere between BG and IWD.

Happy to know that. But that was my initial impression (the game cannot load and crashes constandy so i wait for a patch before i play more), and i have seen the same complain in other sites as well. It may be that people's excpectations are wrong as they compaire it with BG2 instead of BG1 as they should, but i doubt it's only that.

The only thing i can imagine is the presentation problem i mentioned in the OP. Pensil scethes and a better,more solid UI window for examining the items, plus better weapon icons would go a long way to fix the problem.

I know Kaz has too much on his plate as it is, but art is as essential in a game like this. Personaly i would be happy if the game was delayed 3-4 months or gone Early Access for the sole reason of art enchacment, but if the release date is set in stone, outsourcing or bringing an additional artist in PoE could be a possible solution.

 

Pretty please

[AdaMusic]

The information and answers given from Sawyer about items, crafting and enchanting in this thread sounds really good. 1 step closer to a masterpiece.

Edited August 25, 2014 by AdaMusic

[Seari]

One step farther from a complete disaster. I remain skeptical.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

 

 

Pretty please

 

Josh, OE! You cannot say no to this über-cute cat. It's impossible with its deploring beady eyes.

[Malekith]

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty please

 

Josh, OE! You cannot say no to this über-cute cat. It's impossible with its deploring beady eyes.

 

Don't draw attention to my manipulating masterplan. I know Josh has/likes cats, so i chose the picture accordingly.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Malekith

[AdaMusic]

One step farther from a complete disaster. I remain skeptical.

 

That is another way of putting it.

[PrimeJunta]

Josh, if you're still reading this thread -- is it possible to recreate any magic item already in the game by crafting?

 

Asking because IMO that would greatly devalue the unique found items. While my holy keen flaming scythe was boss in NWN2, Carsomyr was even cooler.

 

If that is the case, at least make it like in Mask of the Betrayer -- i.e., crafting the really crazily powerful items required unique items you could only acquire over the course of your adventures. (I never could bring myself to do everything it would've taken to get the most powerful loot, even on my psychopath run. Some of you guys are truly, truly disturbed.) Please?

 

(Edit: examples for illustration only, adjust power levels down as applicable. It's all relative anyway.)

Edited August 25, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Malekith]

The information and answers given from Sawyer about items, crafting and enchanting in this thread sounds really good. 1 step closer to a masterpiece.

As i said in a previous post, i believe my main 3 concerns (itemization, combat feel, and abilities creep due to all classes having abilities making combat a clusterfuack) will be addressed. Itemization's presentation worries me a little more because it's a question of additional resources for art (though i don't think pensil drawings would be prohibitly expensive),

and while i wouldn't have a problem with the game delayed in order for Kaz to have all the time in the world to do everything by himself, i can understand if Obsidian wouldn't like something like this

[J.E. Sawyer]

Josh, if you're still reading this thread -- is it possible to recreate any magic item already in the game by crafting?

 

It's not, no.  First, you can only enchant weapons, armor, and shields.  Cloaks, boots, bracers, etc. can't be enchanted.  But even within the boundaries of weapons, armor, and shields, there are currently few (no? I can't remember) recipes for Spellbind and Spell Hold, which tend to be among the more distinguishing features.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Josh: That was very sweet news, indeed!

[J.E. Sawyer]

It's very easy for us to remove recipes.  My goal with the system was to allow people to fine-tune their gear over the course of the game.  If the presented list of recipes seems too large or if it makes the unique items feel less unique, we can roll back exactly what's offered -- because there's quite a lot there.  I think the best things to leave in the enchantment recipes are the bread-and-butter upgrades like quality (Fine/Exceptional/Superb), damage procs, and the more common elements.  That way if someone just wants to keep an item competitive and viable throughout the game, they have the means to do that instead of needing to get rid of the item.

[sparklecat]

It's very easy for us to remove recipes.  My goal with the system was to allow people to fine-tune their gear over the course of the game.  If the presented list of recipes seems too large or if it makes the unique items feel less unique, we can roll back exactly what's offered -- because there's quite a lot there.  I think the best things to leave in the enchantment recipes are the bread-and-butter upgrades like quality (Fine/Exceptional/Superb), damage procs, and the more common elements.  That way if someone just wants to keep an item competitive and viable throughout the game, they have the means to do that instead of needing to get rid of the item.

That sounds good to me; I hate having some item I'm quite fond of wind up obsoleted, but I want a fair number of the items to feel special in the first place, rather than something that anyone with enough cash could just up and create.  Something that you earned through your adventuring rather than bought, and by implication something limited in the world.

[Tartantyco]

Anybody else play through all of Baldur's Gate with Hull's Sword?

[Malekith]

Anybody else play through all of Baldur's Gate with Hull's Sword?

Dirty thief...

[Shevek]

It's very easy for us to remove recipes.  My goal with the system was to allow people to fine-tune their gear over the course of the game.  If the presented list of recipes seems too large or if it makes the unique items feel less unique, we can roll back exactly what's offered -- because there's quite a lot there.  I think the best things to leave in the enchantment recipes are the bread-and-butter upgrades like quality (Fine/Exceptional/Superb), damage procs, and the more common elements.  That way if someone just wants to keep an item competitive and viable throughout the game, they have the means to do that instead of needing to get rid of the item.

 

Simply awesome.

[PrimeJunta]

@Josh Awesome. Very relieved to hear that keeping unique discovered items unique is a design goal. I got a bit worried earlier when somebody in this thread thought otherwise.

[Sarex]

So does that mean that unique items are not enchantable?