The music! Good or no?

[Sensuki]

Well one of the things is that it's far more subdued and not as striking. All of the themes for the IE games except for BG1 literally jumped out at you.

 

I have said that I like the track, it fits with the main menu screen as well, just doesn't grab you very much - which I think might be intended.

 

I have actually booted up PE HEAPS of times over the past few days because I've been doing a fair bit of bug reporting and suggestion videos, and looking for things to do in the future, but I literally cannot tell you one thing about the main theme off the top of my head other than it's subtle. I would literally have to play it to be reminded.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sensuki

[Trodat]

Some tracks are just almost unforgettable. For example the first Dungeon Sieges main theme is just pure sex. Probably the best part about the game as well.

[Cantousent]

I like that the opening music conveys a sense of mystery, which is great for a story driven game.  I don't always want the music to jump out at me, but then again I liked the music from PS:T most of any IE game.  ...maybe my favorite of any game altogether.  In PS:T, the music that jumped out at me came at points of the game that were important or otherwise striking in and of themselves.  The music helped create those moments and then then the music and the scene became intermingled in my recollection.

 

I like the opening music quite a bit in PoE.

[Tartantyco]

All of the themes for the IE games except for BG1 literally jumped out at you.

 

 

What? It practically molests you!

 

 

(And you can hear where the inspiration is from)

Edited August 22, 2014 by Tartantyco

[vril]

I like what we have heard from the soundtrack.  Opinions on them can are really just in the ear of the beholder.  See what I did there? 

[Nixl]

I like the music, but some tracks are more subtle and forgetable. 

 

The music of the town, however, does give me a morrowind vibe, which I am all for. 

[ctn2003]

Yea the music is kinda disappointing to a lot of people. a thing i found that was annoying as heck id the bird sounds they get irritating really fast. as they did in BG but id wish they would have toned it down a bit. But id wish they crank out a new theme song. kinda a boring theme

[Leferd]

 

Update by Justin Bell, Audio Director

 

Hello awesome backers. My name is Justin Bell and I’m the Audio Director at Obsidian, and the Audio Lead/Composer for Pillars of Eternity. I know a lot of you have been waiting patiently to hear some news about the game’s music. Thanks for waiting, I’m happy to say this update will focus entirely on music! In it we’ll cover the high level creative guidelines we’re using to write the score. I’ll also provide you with an in depth look into my music writing process. For those of you who are chomping at the bit for more info about the sound design for PoE, don’t worry... We’re going to do another update in the future that focuses on that as well. But for now, let’s talk about music!

 

Our next update will be a look at the most recent art our talented team has put together for the game.

 

 

Justin's every day workspace.

 

 

Style

 

Making Pillars of Eternity feel like a modern day Infinity Engine game is important to us, and music plays a big role in achieving that goal. But what does that actually mean in practice? Well if you were to loosely analyze the music from Baldur’s Gate 1 & 2 and Icewind Dale 1 & 2 for example, you would find a number of stylistic similarities between them. Without getting too technical, their music combines tropes found in European folk and pre-Renaissance modal music, and mashes that together with modern day orchestration techniques and film music aesthetics.

 

You’re probably thinking... “Where’s the human side of all this? Where’s the emotion? The music for the IE games is so much more than simply a mash-up of musical elements!”

 

Putting it in such cold and analytical terms doesn’t really give those soundtracks the justice they deserve, does it? Still it’s important for me as the composer to understand things in that way, and here’s why. An incredible teacher of mine used to say, “When in doubt, use a model”. Another incredible teacher would likewise say, “Never proceed without a plan”. What they were both saying is that if you’re going to take a journey, you need to understand the path and know your destination to the best of your ability. Even if the plan needs to change at some point down the path, always think it through first.

Luckily for me both are pretty clear. In that sense the soundtracks for the IE games are both my model and my plan, at least to a point. I’ve made a couple minor structural modifications to the formula, which I’ll describe in greater depth further on. But first I’d like to give you an inside peek into the creative process I use to write music.

 

 

The Commute

 

Here’s some news that’ll undoubtedly shock each and every one of you...

 

I commute to work. Every. Day.

 

Exciting right?! Right... Don’t let the mundaneness of that description fool you, as this is actually one of the most important parts of my day. It’s one of the few times that I get to listen to music without interruption, and I use this time to get inspired to write. Things I’ve been putting on lately are the soundtracks for The Elder Scrolls (III, IV, and V), The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, anything by Basil Poledouris, and of course the IE soundtracks, just to name a few.

 

As I’m driving and listening I stay on the lookout for small moments that inspire me in some way. When I come across something that attracts my attention, like an interesting harmony or nice orchestral combination, I document the track number, time range, and any observations I have using a little handheld recorder. By the time I get to work I usually have roughly 10 small voice memos recorded for myself. When I get in front of my computer at work I pull the tracks I noticed into my audio program, edit out the sections in question, and categorize them with my notes for future use. It’s a way of systematizing inspiration, which I’ll admit may sound counter intuitive to some. When working on a project with deadlines while simultaneously trying to keep things the creative juices flowing, being organized is critical to successfully balancing those two often competing requirements.

 

The audio booth with noise making props.

 

 

Daily Bach

 

After I’m through categorizing the nuggets of inspiration, I sit in front of my keyboard and sight read a single chorale from J.S. Bach’s beautiful collection of 371 four part chorales. Each day I read a new one in sequence, and I do this for a couple reasons. I’m a musician, sight reading is fun, and this is an excuse to keep my chops up. But more importantly, I do it to get motivated by the master of modern tonal harmony himself. When I’m actually writing music and get stuck at a tricky voice leading spot, the fact that I have Bach in my ear and at my fingertips is often a lifesaver.

 

 

Sketches

 

I like to keep the actual writing process as simple as possible. To do that, I open up my writing program (Nuendo 6 + NEK for those who are interested) and compose with one piano patch and one full string patch only. This is pretty standard practice for some, and I do it too. It allows me to focus on just the melody, rhythm, and harmony alone (i.e. the Music, with a capital “M”) without concerning myself too much with instrumentation or the mix. Both of those things aren’t important now and I know I’ll get to them later. For now it’s all about the music. By keeping the writing process simple, I free up my ability to stay creative.

 

Here I’ll write whatever comes to mind. Sometimes it’s entire pieces of music, other times it’s a small fragment. I don’t really try to do anything specific or limit myself in any way; I just let the ideas flow as freely as possible. The idea here is to write as much music as possible without concern for the end result. Again, it’s important to keep things loose. At the end of each day I may write up to an hour of sketches, about 90% of which will never see the light of day. It’s the remaining 10% that I’m really after.

 

I liken this process to panning for gold. The way I look at it is that in order to succeed, you need to know how to fail. It doesn’t matter to me if I’ve deliberately crafted a piece of music through the sheer force of my will and divine creativity or whatever. Happy accidents can and do often yield the best creative results, and allowing them to happen is essential to remaining creative while working under tight deadlines. Now you may be wondering, “Where’s the artistry in that?!? Anyone can do that!” The artistry lies in the ability to recognize a great idea when it comes to you, regardless of where it comes from or how deliberate the process to create it was. Simple as that!

 

 

Process of Elimination and Categorization

 

Once I’ve run out of time sketching things out, it’s time to start identifying the material that actually has potential to be made into a larger piece of music. I do this by color coding each region (i.e. sketch) based on how good I think it is. By default all of my regions are blue because it’s soothing for me to look at. All segments that are halfway decent get turned purple, which means I may or may not have a use for it. Everything that sounds amazing and I’m confident in gets coded red. Once that’s done, I version off my session and delete all the remaining blue regions for them to go to unwanted sketch heaven.

 

In Eternity we break music into four basic “types”: town, dungeon, wilderness, and combat. Each major area of the game will have its own unique set of these. The next step for me is to assign each sketch to one of those categories.

 

A sketch in progress.

 

 

Musical Quilt

 

So I have all these little segments of music and cool little snippets, but I don’t exactly have what you’d consider to be a piece of music. Time to change that! The next step involves stitching all of those little fragments, expanding them where necessary, into a full-fledged piece of music. A lot of mixing and matching goes into this and the process takes me about a half day per 3-5 minute piece of music. I focus a lot on form, pacing, and musical trajectory. Once the form has taken a shape I’m happy with, I separate each voice out into individual track lanes so I can begin the process of digital orchestration.

 

 

A Word About Templates

 

Prior to working on Eternity I spent a couple of weeks creating what’s known in the digital composing world as template. A template is essentially a collection of sample based instruments that are preloaded into a massive audio project. In my template I have all of the most common instruments found in the orchestra (i.e. winds, brass, percussion, and strings), as well as some less common ones, all set up and mixed in advance. This is done to help minimize the steps I have to take between the spark of inspiration and manifesting that inspiration into music. All in all I have about 150 unique tracks for all the instruments and articulations that I’ll need to write the music for Eternity, though I’ll rarely use all 150 at one time.

 

There are a couple of reasons why using a template is important and they all have to do with speed and convenience. When writing, the last thing you want is to get bogged down with technical issues. Doing so will often destroy the spark of inspiration, which can be a fickle thing. By creating a template in advance you separate the technical from the creative which allows you to focus purely on writing the music. Templates are also critical because modern day multi sample libraries eat up a lot of RAM and take a long time to load. Your average sampled instrument can require anywhere from a couple hundred to a few gigs of memory. (Fun fact: My computer at Obsidian has 32 gigs or RAM installed, and my template uses every last gig!) Needless to say, loading all those samples takes up precious time, and it’s a waste to have to do that over and over.

 

Using all the RAM.

 

 

Orchestral Colors

 

Back to the music writing... Right now the form of the music has been fleshed out, but it’s still just using piano or string orchestra. This is where orchestration comes in. We often refer to the different ranges and combinations of instruments as having a certain “color”, which is really just a fancy way of saying sonic timbre. You can think of orchestration as being similar to taking a pencil sketch and filling it in with color. The way I like describe this stage of the writing process is that here I have the “bones” of the music all assembled like an archeologist assembles dinosaur bones; it just needs to be “skinned”.

 

At this point I already have a good idea for what the general moment to moment feeling of the music will be, and ideas for orchestration are already beginning to take shape. This is where those references I mentioned earlier on come in handy. What I do is comb through my reference library looking for snippets that will inspire and inform me on how to approach the instrumentation. When I find something suitable I line appropriate reference(s) up against the sketch.

 

A piece in the middle of development.

 

Even though the actual harmonic and rhythmic content of music that I’ve written is quite different than the references I have, I can still use them to extract the orchestral colors the original composer used and apply them to what I’m doing. This helps me to produce the most realistic result possible (remember I’m using samples most of the time) and allows me to get through the orchestration process in the fastest way without spending too much time on R&D.

 

At this stage in the project it’s less important for me to spend a bunch of time trying to come up with the most unique orchestration known to man, than it is for me to get 70% of the way there using a combination that I know will work. I don’t always need to do this for each musical phrase, but it sure comes in handy when I’m stuck. Once the references are all lined up, I start assigning the different layers of music to the instruments that are loaded in my template.

 

 

Polish

 

In its current state, the music sounds really static and pretty bad. Not ready for prime time. Even though I just assigned the music to different instruments, it’s not quite done yet. For example, phrases lack shape, the mix between instruments is unbalanced, and articulations are all wrong. To fix that, I hand sculpt each individual note and phrase to make it sound more convincing, trying my best to make it sound as if a real live musician were performing the piece (which is actually impossible to do, but that’s the subject for another conversation).

 

This, my friends, is where the music really comes to life. It’s a painstakingly slow and highly detailed process but by the end of it, we’re left with something that actually sounds pretty good! Now I bet you’re wondering how that sounds? Well wonder no more because I’m about to show you!

 

 

Drum Roll Please...

 

The first region I focused on was Dyrford, and I’d like to share the music that I wrote for the town of Dyrford with you. I hope you enjoy it!

 

Dyrford Village ambient music.

 

 

Modifications to the Formula

 

While we are following in the footsteps of the Infinity Engine soundtracks in terms of style and implementation, we have decided to tweak that formula a bit. Most of the in-game tracks for the Baldur’s Gate and Icewind Dale games are between 1-2 minutes in length, and in some cases those tracks loop immediately. There are some inherent risks and benefits to looping a short piece of music immediately.

 

One of the risks is that the music could eventually become annoying to the player if heard too many times in a row. We call this “listener fatigue”, and from a usability perspective, it can negatively affect the way a gamer will feel about a game. It’s a psychological effect; the fact that the music is short and repetitious can make long playthroughs tedious. On the flip side, a benefit to having short loops is that we can write more unique pieces of music, which will by nature increase variety throughout the game. Approaching it this way would allow us to make specific areas feel “special” because they will have unique music.

 

We’re going to balance those two considerations for Pillars of Eternity. Music will always loop, but it will be longer in areas where the player spends a lot of time (like quest hubs) and shorter in areas where the player doesn’t (like some dungeons).

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66060-update-76-music-in-pillars-of-eternity/?p=1440289

 

The BG main theme was quite bombastic and martial. Lead designer James Ohlen is a huge Conan fan and it wouldn't be surprising if he didn't direct Hoenig to go after Basil Poledouris's aesthetics.

[Kiel29]

The main theme sounds very Rohan-esque from Lord of the Rings, which I really enjoy. Which is funny, because going back in recent years playing BG, the two themes especially BG1 sounded very much like the Battle of Helm's Deep music(despite LotR being later)

[Bester]

This game seriously lacks in Mark Morgan or any other good composer.

 

Why wasn't he a part of a stretch goal?

 

I was expecting more.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Bester

[lolaldanee]

the combat music is ABSOLUTELY horrible, it hated it after something like 1 minute, way too loud and pronounced, way way way too hard trying to sound epic - why must combat music always be so annoying in this kind of game? i rememberd turning off the music in BG2 at some point because the combat music is so annoying, and that's something that i rarely ever do, but in a game with that length, having to endure such painfull sound for such a long time is just too much

if a game makes you shy away of combat just because of the music then played, it is doing something WRONG

 

*end of rant*

 

the rest of the music (and sound design) is awesome!

Edited August 22, 2014 by lolaldanee

[Bester]

Now now. BG's only problem was that the battle music was super serious and therefore was misplaced when you were killing 8 goblins with 20 lvl characters. Battle music shouldn't start when the level difference is that big.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Bester

[Novanus]

 

All of the themes for the IE games except for BG1 literally jumped out at you.

 

 

What? It practically molests you!

 

 

Oh, how I love that theme!  It always gets me pumped to do some adventuring.

 

This game seriously lacks in Mark Morgan or any other good composer.

 

Why wasn't he a part of a stretch goal?

 

I was expecting more.

 

I love Mark Morgan's work but I disagree that he'd be the right choice for this game.  Besides, he's already doing WL2 and Torment.  Nothing wrong with hearing someone different have a go.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Novanus

[Starwars]

Definitely agree with lolaldanee. Never understood why we need to be hit with the full force of the epic choir as soon as we enter a combat situation. But it keeps coming back in games.

[Justin Bell]

Hmmm... I don't know guys, I think the music is pretty good!

 

Truthfully, it's almost impossible to please everyone when it comes to music.  We all have such different musical tastes, it's quite natural that not everyone will like what they hear.  I figure 30% don't like it, 30% do, and 30% don't care or don't focus on music enough to notice one way or another.

[Bester]

Hmmm... I don't know guys, I think the music is pretty good!

 

Truthfully, it's almost impossible to please everyone when it comes to music.  We all have such different musical tastes, it's quite natural that not everyone will like what they hear.  I figure 30% don't like it, 30% do, and 30% don't care or don't focus on music enough to notice one way or another.

 

Which means you only did 30% of your job. Everyone liked and noticed BG's music.

[Tartantyco]

And what about the other 10%, Justin. Are they just chopped liver to you!?

 

Edit: Dear god, Bester. I've seen stabbings less brutal than your reply.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Tartantyco

[Justin Bell]

 

Which means you only did 30% of your job. Everyone liked and noticed BG's music.

 

 

Sorry you feel that way!  But I'll have to respectfully disagree on both of your points.

 

And what about the other 10%, Justin. Are they just chopped liver to you!?

 

Edit: Dear god, Bester. I've seen stabbings less brutal than your reply.

 

Excellent point.  33.33333333333333% all around then.

[vril]

Hmmm... I don't know guys, I think the music is pretty good!

 

Truthfully, it's almost impossible to please everyone when it comes to music.  We all have such different musical tastes, it's quite natural that not everyone will like what they hear.  I figure 30% don't like it, 30% do, and 30% don't care or don't focus on music enough to notice one way or another.

 

Add into that there is nostalgia there since this project is supposed to be a continuation of a past franchise.  If the music doesn't fit into that nostalgia people are not going to like it.  For me personally, Baldur's Gate series had a great soundtrack but if I sit down and listen to each individual track, I am certainly going to skip over at least half the soundtrack because some of them are less notable but at the same time they set the tone well enough for when iI played the game.  For example, Baldur's Gate - Down to the Sewers, it certainly sets the tone in-game but  do I want to sit here listen to that song now?  Absolutely not.

[Tartantyco]

I was just listening to the Pillars of Eternity theme, Justin. Is that a hint of Basil Poledouris I hear?

[Gromnir]

any time friend or foe is victimized by a knockdown effect, all we hear is Dune thumper meant to attract sandworms. is very distracting such that we don't even notice music.

 

on the positive side, the annoying sound did encourage us to watch the sci-fi dune miniseries just the other day, and we will probably watch 1985 lynch version this weekend- director's cut 'course.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

any time friend or foe is victimized by a knockdown effect, all we hear is Dune thumper meant to attract sandworms. is very distracting such that we don't even notice music.

 

on the positive side, the annoying sound did encourage us to watch the sci-fi dune miniseries just the other day, and we will probably watch 1985 lynch version this weekend- director's cut 'course.

 

HA! Good Fun!

By Directors Cut, do you mean the "Alan Smithee" extended version? The one that Lynch disowns?

 

...

 

Justin, just curious but how far along are you with the music and sound effects?

[Justin Bell]

Add into that there is nostalgia there since this project is supposed to be a continuation of a past franchise.  If the music doesn't fit into that nostalgia people are not going to like it. 

 

Yes, that's true.  Expectations are very high for this project, and it can be hard to tread new ground without alienating some folks, I understand and appreciate that.  Hopefully, once the game is out and people play through it they will enjoy it for what it is, and new nostalgic memories will be made.  

 

I was just listening to the Pillars of Eternity theme, Justin. Is that a hint of Basil Poledouris I hear?

 

Yes!  Which means that I'm not so far off the mark now am I? BG1's soundtrack is basically one big homage to Connan the Barbarian (written by Basil Poledouris).  I'll take small successes where I can get them, heh.

 

any time friend or foe is victimized by a knockdown effect, all we hear is Dune thumper meant to attract sandworms. is very distracting such that we don't even notice music.

 

on the positive side, the annoying sound did encourage us to watch the sci-fi dune miniseries just the other day, and we will probably watch 1985 lynch version this weekend- director's cut 'course.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

We're definitely aware of the issue and we're going to revisit that sound.  Thanks for pointing this out, and glad that we inspired you to re-watch Dune

[kloperius]

 

Hmmm... I don't know guys, I think the music is pretty good!

 

Truthfully, it's almost impossible to please everyone when it comes to music.  We all have such different musical tastes, it's quite natural that not everyone will like what they hear.  I figure 30% don't like it, 30% do, and 30% don't care or don't focus on music enough to notice one way or another.

 

Which means you only did 30% of your job. Everyone liked and noticed BG's music.

 

 

I didnt like baldurs gate music 

[Justin Bell]

Justin, just curious but how far along are you with the music and sound effects?

 

We're getting close to finishing, but we still have a bit to go.  We aren't quite at the point where we can look at what we have and begin to make polish type decisions, but we're getting there.  

Which is to say we're at about the point same we normally would be on comparable projects ("we" being the audio team...).