Sensuki Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Unfortunately you guys have missed the party. We lost the UI wars to the minimalists in the Update 54 thread over a year ago, shoulda been around for that. After actually using the UI, I think the design was a good idea in theory, but it's not very good in practice. The combat log being on the far right is the most useless position for it, due to our nature of reading / looking at the left side of things primarily (which is why books, programs etc are left-aligned). The middle section of the UI is rarely used. I actually don't use it at all. The pop-up action bar should have been next to the portraits so it didn't take up as much space when open, but the lead designer doesn't like moving his mouse in that direction so that's why in his game, there shall be no action bar on the right of portraits, only to the left or above. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabamacadaf Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I prefer the portraits at the bottom, but being able to choose where to put them would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshock Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I like the UI very much as it is now, but freedom to move it around wouldn't hurt. My YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Answermancer Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) This goes in the bucket of suggestions for stat effects that I don't like because they seemingly ignore that every stat currently needs to meaningfully vary from 3-18 (although personally I don't see why they let you go that low and I'd cap the low end at 8 ). Currently every stat has some kind of increase for every point you spend, every point of Might gives a 2% bonus, how will every point of Resolve give a bonus in your suggested system? Please explain, with an example if you want, how your suggestion will work for someone with 3 Resolve vs. someone with 18 Resolve. Edited August 24, 2014 by Answermancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Obsidian should just deprecate the attribute system and replace it with a bunch skills and traits so that we can build our party. It is so simple in design, you could just cut it out and nothing would change anyway. 2 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartantyco Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Look at Helm, trying so hard to troll, but failing so badly. 1 "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 If you can't see that I am actually not trolling, then you really aren't very smart. Deprecating the attribute system would be a good idea. It is just a bunch of simplistic fluff that causes problems. You would be able to build a better party with numerous and diverse skills and traits than with this attribute system. 2 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 You could do that. We all know they won't though. You could also bump the mechanical effects of the attributes, turning it into a significant gameplay element. I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 You could do that. We all know they won't though. You could also bump the mechanical effects of the attributes, turning it into a significant gameplay element. NOPE DON'T YOU KNOW? If a mechanic is broken at the start, it's broken forever. Tweaking and fine tuning is UNPOSSIBLE! /Helm 1 "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 If Obsidian wants to fix it instead, then they should do that. Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 You could do that. We all know they won't though. You could also bump the mechanical effects of the attributes, turning it into a significant gameplay element. NOPE DON'T YOU KNOW? If a mechanic is broken at the start, it's broken forever. Tweaking and fine tuning is UNPOSSIBLE! /Helm It is broken though. Maybe 12 year olds can't see that, but it is true. Obsidian can fix it if they want. Or they can deprecate it. Both would work. 3 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It is broken though. Maybe 12 year olds can't see that, but it is true. Obsidian can fix it if they want. Or they can deprecate it. Both would work. Dude, you're an idiot. No one here is saying attributes are flawless and perfect. We all have critiques and suggestions and little issues with them to some extent. The difference is we recognize this is week ****ing one of the ****ing beta. Plenty of time to MAKE those fixes. You wanna know why everyone makes fun of you? Because your attitude is basically on par to if Obsidian were going to compete in a marathon running race, and then before the race even starts, you're raging and ripping up your gambling tickets representing the money you bet on them solely because they're drinking water instead of Gatorade and therefore they're ****ing idiots of a grand calibur and there's no way in hell they can hope to accomplish anything but last place. Calm the **** down and provide reasonably presented constructive criticism and people would treat you better. 3 "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 ^ I'd say you're the one who needs to calm down by the looks of it. Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartantyco Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Longknife, stop engaging with the troll. 2 "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) ^ You need to calm down too. No idea why you call everyone on the forum a troll when you disagree with them. You need to work on your social skills. Edited August 24, 2014 by Helm 3 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmonocle Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Elaboration 3 = 1 per encouner ability 18 = 6 per encounter abilities each 3 points +1 3 at 9 Resolve I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayama Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 ^ You need to calm down too. No idea why you everyone on the forum a troll when you disagree with them. You need to work on your social skills. Maybee its because your arrogant, elitist know it all attitude mixed with a heavy dose of apocalyptic teenage angst pisses alot of people off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeJunta Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Okay, make resolve determine how many per encounter abilities you can use I liked the idea at first blush when thinking about it more, it won't work I'm afraid. Currently you typically get around 4 uses per rest, and 2 uses per encounter. These are small numbers, and they're enormously significant. You can never let them fall to zero without making the build unviable, and, say, doubling the number immediately makes the character way more powerful. So adjusting the number by 1 is a Very Big Deal. Consequently, this would make RES a required pump stat for any class relying on per-rest/per-encounter abilities, especially wizard, priest, and paladin, moderately for fighter, ranger, and rogue, and least of all cipher, chanter, and monk with their unique ways of charging up their abilities. That's... not good IMO. Second, because the range of numbers you're moving in is necessarily small, say between 1 and 8 for per-rest abilities, 1 and 4 for per-encounter ones, the effect would appear in jumps. Some of the values would see a massive leap in character viability, others would see nothing. In particular the fighter, rogue, and ranger which have mostly or exclusively per-encounter abilities would see no difference at all until they hauled up the value by four points or more. So no, I don't think this'll work. You need to bind something that can be adjusted at finer increments. Some possible candidates not currently affected by the ability system are crit chance, recovery speed, movement speed, deflection, and armor penalty on recovery speed. 2 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayama Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I still think adding extra range for spells/projectiles would be a nice addition to one of the underperforming attributes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 ^ You need to calm down too. No idea why you everyone on the forum a troll when you disagree with them. You need to work on your social skills. Maybee its because your arrogant, elitist know it all attitude mixed with a heavy dose of apocalyptic teenage angst pisses alot of people off. Well, the attribute system is broken. Why do you think we have numerous threads about how to fix it? Oh yeah, you need to calm down too. And work on your social skills, like learning to respect the opinions of others (maybe your parents forgot to teach you that). 3 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Maybe this will make you guys feel better: Josh Sawyer doesn't like attribute systems. He didn't even want to design one for PoE, but he did anyway. So just deprecate it, no one will miss it, especially not Josh Sawyer. 3 Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration. PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate - Josh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan "I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO "Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmonocle Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 @Helm edit button instead of doublepost is a sign of manners checked I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seari Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Maybe this will make you guys feel better: Josh Sawyer doesn't like attribute systems. He didn't even want to design one for PoE, but he did anyway. So just deprecate it, no one will miss it, especially not Josh Sawyer. I will miss an attribute system, most definitely not this one though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintersong Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Maybe this will make you guys feel better: Josh Sawyer doesn't like attribute systems. He didn't even want to design one for PoE, but he did anyway. So just deprecate it, no one will miss it, especially not Josh Sawyer. And yet, we got the system. Which means that we need one for PoE. Maybe for Mystical Reasons™. So before we start deprecating stuff, maybe we should try to fix it as much as needed. The fact that the system has reached Beta, must mean something. It's not like the devs implemented it without thinking and then sit down waiting for beta and the players telling them what to do. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giubba Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Obsidian should just deprecate the attribute system and replace it with a bunch skills and traits so that we can build our party. It is so simple in design, you could just cut it out and nothing would change anyway. But balance! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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