Divinity: Original Sin

[Shadeling]

 

You don't get an 87 on Metacritic by making a crappy game. Original Sin is one of the best crpgs of the last 5 years.

 

Make it 14. BG2 was released in 2000. 

 

 

 

How can someone who enjoys roleplaying games not care about the story of the game they are playing?  You don't care about how your character fits into the world or why your character fits into the world?  That's like saying you don't like shooting guns in an FPS, it's one of the integral parts of an rpg - you're playing a character IN a story!  

 

 

The problem is that many people don't play RPGs or FPS, they just play games. I play all kinds of different games which different design approaches and different strengths. The olny purpose they have is to be fun and entertaining.

 

So I don't care if Divinity: Originial Sin is an RPG by the books or not. That's totally unimportant to me. Important is whether the game "works" as a package and whether it's fun to play. And by the way, game design philosophy is much more complex than making a game in genre X or Y. Whole books have been written on the topic. Having a deep immersive story is only one element in a much bigger puzzle and it's quite common sense in design philosophy that good games focus on certain strengths instead of trying to cater to everyone and trying to include everything. The main story is just not the biggest focus of Divinity: Original Sin and that's ok because it has other strengths like engaging combat, good exloration and a high degree of systemic freedom. If that makes the game less RPG then it shall be so.

 

 

I guess that helps shed some light on my conundrum.  Before I started really considering myself a 'gamer' I was a table top roleplayer first and foremost so story was always integral to whatever game I was playing and that mindset continued on into computer roleplaying games for me.  It just seems so completely incongruous to play a roleplaying game with total disregard to the story you're 'roleplaying' in, to do so otherwise seems like it's all about stats and not about your character, which isn't about roleplay at all, IMO.

 

Anyway, thanks for responding. I think I have a lil bit better of an understanding even though it still seems so odd to me. 

[Shadeling]

 

How can someone who enjoys roleplaying games not care about the story of the game they are playing?  You don't care about how your character fits into the world or why your character fits into the world?  That's like saying you don't like shooting guns in an FPS, it's one of the integral parts of an rpg - you're playing a character IN a story! 

 

I never understood people that played games for their story, to be honest. If I want a good story I read a book. I play games for their gameplay. that's all there is to it. I skip dialogue in all RPGs

 

 

I take it you never had the chance to play a table top roleplaying game with a really awesome storyteller? I was lucky enough to have had that kind of opportunity with a storyteller who created the most epic adventures and the story is what made it so awesome, and the role my character had in helping shape that story was simply amazing, it's hard to find words to describe how wonderful it was.  I know that it's very unlikely a cRPG will evoke that same kind of awesomeness but that's what I look for and I have to say that the Black Isle/Obsidian games have come close to that ideal and story is really integral to evoke that kind of reaction in me.   Perhaps I'm simply starved after a long drought of cRPG goodness but Divinity: OS is bringing a lot of that back for me.  

[Volourn]

"You don't get an 87 on Metacritic by making a crappy game. Original Sin is one of the best crpgs of the last 5 years."

 

L0LZ All the NWN haterz here want to bash you in the head now. L0L

 

 

"That ****ing teleportation pyramid. Seriously, now I've got a swarm of town guards on my ass because I couldn't unlock the door and they never clarified I should drop the first pyramid before using it. Teleporting back to the first one is useless when you're carrying the first one in your pocket. Which is currently adorning you in the same room as the destination pyramid. With an angry naked woman calling for town guards when you try to escape through the supposedly always-passable door. Despite passing the speech/reason/charisma/whatever check. YEAH THANKS LARIAN."

 

Did you try the unlocked door  that leads to the outside. It's unlocked and no worries. Don't go through the locked door connected to the rest of the house.

[BruceVC]

 

How can someone who enjoys roleplaying games not care about the story of the game they are playing?  You don't care about how your character fits into the world or why your character fits into the world?  That's like saying you don't like shooting guns in an FPS, it's one of the integral parts of an rpg - you're playing a character IN a story! 

 

I never understood people that played games for their story, to be honest. If I want a good story I read a book. I play games for their gameplay. that's all there is to it. I skip dialogue in all RPGs

 

as for the post directly above mine, not going to argue with you. no point, you're apologetic of and I'm heavily opposed to this game. we'll not see eye to eye. I find your arguments laughable, so what? you like it, fine, I'm glad for you. it's just bizarre, from my standpoint. 

 

 

Sorry Sorophx but now I also don't believe you, how can you say you don't care about the story in a RPG?

 

That's the foundation of the game and is huge factor, if not the most important thing, in a RPG as the narrative is the base for your decisions that determine your RPG journey. Without a compelling story what would be the point of an RPG?

 

I don't think you quite understand what you are saying or we are misunderstanding your criticism

[Volourn]

"That's the foundation of the game and is huge factor, if not the most important thing, in a RPG as the narrative is the base for your decisions that determine your RPG journey. Without a compelling story what would be the point of an RPG?"

 

That's funny but story was never the 'base' of RPGs. The base is building your character  largely based on combat with non combat stuff. Story, characters, even 'C&C' came later. I mean, D&D "the  Originator" was originally just a combats imulater based on old war games. It's evolved.

 

As for me, story 8is* important and CAN make or break a game but it is one of  multiple things that make a RPG worth playing for me. Story, (including characters and writing), character system, C&C, combat, and the 'loot system' make up    the good and bad RPGs. Some RPGs hit hoom runs with some categories and not others. ie. PST = great story but has bad combat.  It's why BG2 is the 'best'. Beacuse, while it may not to all those aspects the best it's easily up there in all categories.

[Darji]

 

How can someone who enjoys roleplaying games not care about the story of the game they are playing?  You don't care about how your character fits into the world or why your character fits into the world?  That's like saying you don't like shooting guns in an FPS, it's one of the integral parts of an rpg - you're playing a character IN a story! 

 

I never understood people that played games for their story, to be honest. If I want a good story I read a book. I play games for their gameplay. that's all there is to it. I skip dialogue in all RPGs

 

as for the post directly above mine, not going to argue with you. no point, you're apologetic of and I'm heavily opposed to this game. we'll not see eye to eye. I find your arguments laughable, so what? you like it, fine, I'm glad for you. it's just bizarre, from my standpoint. 

 

 I actually play games just because of their story. at least the AA games especially on consoles. For just pure gameplay fun i will play indy games.  The argument that I could rather read a book or watch a movie is a really weak one because since this medium is so interactive you can build up much more intensity and emotions toward your characters. It is a whole different feeling than watching a movie or read a book. 

 

Also what does mean good story? Games are entertainment and they should entertain. A game like Uncharted is just like an high budget Hollywood summer blockbuster experience while something as cruel as a The last of us is more like a Walking dead experience.  Writing in this industry is still pretty early and we definitely need better acting and writing in our games. But even these few example show how much more video games can be since you are involved and not only watch it. 

[sorophx]

I take it you never had the chance to play a table top roleplaying game with a really awesome storyteller?

nope, when I was a teenager tabletop games didn't exist in my area, you had to order them by mail from people who lived in Western Europe or North America, because there was no Internet either. ah, the good old days. I saw my first web page in 2001, I think 

 

Also what does mean good story? Games are entertainment and they should entertain.

good point, I don't know how to describe what a good story is, but I can provide examples. BG has a good story, IWD has a good story, ToEE's story sucks, Fallout 3 has a tarrible story etc.

 

and I agree about the entertaining value of a game. but this value isn't determined by the game's story.

 

a good example would be The Last of Us. I think its story is, while not terrible, not anything to write home about. and its gameplay is even worse. the only good thing about that game is its characters, while they're tied to the story, largely it's only fun to see them bond due to where the story takes them.

 

hence why I really didn't like TLoU, if I were to break it down into parts that make up the whole game, all but one would in my opinion be weak and not worth my attention

Edited July 12, 2014 by sorophx

[Darji]

 

I take it you never had the chance to play a table top roleplaying game with a really awesome storyteller?

nope, when I was a teenager tabletop games didn't exist in my area, you had to order them by mail from people who lived in Western Europe or North America, because there was no Internet either. ah, the good old days. I saw my first web page in 2001, I think 

 

Also what does mean good story? Games are entertainment and they should entertain.

good point, I don't know how to describe what a good story is, but I can provide examples. BG has a good story, IWD has a good story, ToEE's story sucks, Fallout 3 has a tarrible story etc.

 

and I agree about the entertaining value of a game. but this value isn't determined by the game's story.

 

a good example would be The Last of Us. I think its story is, while not terrible, not anything to write home about. and its gameplay is even worse. the only good thing about that game is its characters, while they're tied to the story, largely it's only fun to see them bond due to where the story takes them.

 

hence why I really didn't like TLoU, if I were to break it down into parts that make up the whole game, all but one would in my opinion be weak and not worth my attention

 

Sure that is your opinion but even people outside of gaming recognize the story and its characters and it gets praise all over.  Playing the last of us was not fun. It was intense and devastating. And that is why it was so memorable for so many people.  WE need to understand that games not always have to be fun. I am not even really into the whole Zombes thing but games like  The Last of Us and the Walking dead made me actually care about these characters a lot more than the Walking Dead TV series or even the Road  (Movie which inspired also the Last of US). What a game and also movie needs is not a deep philosophical plot or some deep meaning behind it. What a movie or a Video game really needs is good writing and also believable character. 

[Tigranes]

Saying D:OS is linear after the tutorial dungeon is like saying Fallout 2 is a linear game because of the Temple of Trials.

[sorophx]

that's not what I said, I said I would not buy this game because its tutorial dungeon was linear. 

[Guest Slinky]

I'd love to see a Planescape Torment review from sorophx

[Tigranes]

that's not what I said, I said I would not buy this game because its tutorial dungeon was linear. 

 

Isn't that even more nonsensical? By the way, that dungeon is optional.

[sorophx]

that wasn't the only reason, I simply don't like how the game presents itself during the first 30 minutes. it's a bad sign

[HoonDing]

D:OS looks and feels like Sacred 2 and I've no problem with that. Both game series are peas in the same pod (same Dark Eye origins with LMK and Armalion).

[Sammael7]

 

You don't get an 87 on Metacritic by making a crappy game. Original Sin is one of the best crpgs of the last 5 years.

 

Make it 14. BG2 was released in 2000. 

 

 

 

How can someone who enjoys roleplaying games not care about the story of the game they are playing?  You don't care about how your character fits into the world or why your character fits into the world?  That's like saying you don't like shooting guns in an FPS, it's one of the integral parts of an rpg - you're playing a character IN a story!  

 

 

The problem is that many people don't play RPGs or FPS, they just play games. I play all kinds of different games which different design approaches and different strengths. The olny purpose they have is to be fun and entertaining.

 

So I don't care if Divinity: Originial Sin is an RPG by the books or not. That's totally unimportant to me. Important is whether the game "works" as a package and whether it's fun to play. And by the way, game design philosophy is much more complex than making a game in genre X or Y. Whole books have been written on the topic. Having a deep immersive story is only one element in a much bigger puzzle and it's quite common sense in design philosophy that good games focus on certain strengths instead of trying to cater to everyone and trying to include everything. The main story is just not the biggest focus of Divinity: Original Sin and that's ok because it has other strengths like engaging combat, good exloration and a high degree of systemic freedom. If that makes the game less RPG then it shall be so.

 

 

 

I don't think the narrative for D:OS is as strong as something like bg2, but then bg2 had the single greatest video game villain of all time, Jon Irenicus, voiced by David Warner (WHY CAN'T ANYONE GET HIM TO RETURN !!!!!).

 

Bit the story is still orders of magnitude better than action "rpgs" like diablo or torchlight.  I don't even consider those rpgs, they are hack and slash games in a fantasy setting.  That means it's an rpg?  Not to me.

[Volourn]

They are RPGs. Deal with it.  Even if you go with the notion that rpg = story even a RPG with a bad story is a rpg. Quality is irrelevant. Just like a bad sports game is still a sports game. Quality doesn't determine genre. That's foolish talk.

[Darji]

They are RPGs. Deal with it.  Even if you go with the notion that rpg = story even a RPG with a bad story is a rpg. Quality is irrelevant. Just like a bad sports game is still a sports game. Quality doesn't determine genre. That's foolish talk.

The funny thing here is that most actual D&D campaigns have bad stories all over and beside Temple of elemental evil DOS is as much D&D you can get in a video game.  On the other side when I watch people play this game especially D&D lover they really like the writing and the game. It is really cool to see how this game does not impress the mainstream but rather the nerdy Pen and Paper RPG player which do these things since years. The overall plot may not be great but the writing is almost perfect.

[Tigranes]

that wasn't the only reason, I simply don't like how the game presents itself during the first 30 minutes. it's a bad sign

 

Well, it's your call, but I know I would have missed out on at least half of my favourite games if I decided on the first 30 minutes.

 

D:OS main plot is a terrible bore, Great Evil that wants to Destroy Existence and Immortal Guardians who now carry on the Good Fight snore. It is also delivered terribly. In contrast, the little moments you get with side characters and little villages etc are consistently excellent. Snowmen jailors locking up an earth elemental who protested that those made of earth were being elementally discriminated against, a dog with a bad smell fetish, brewing whiskey to get an encampment of orcs drunk...

[sorophx]

 In contrast, the little moments you get with side characters and little villages etc are consistently excellent. Snowmen jailors locking up an earth elemental who protested that those made of earth were being elementally discriminated against, a dog with a bad smell fetish, brewing whiskey to get an encampment of orcs drunk...

in other words, things that I care less about than anything else in a game such as this  oh, well, what can you do

 

as for missing out on great games, the only truly great game that starts off really slow I can think of off the top of my head is Fallout 2. I hated the first few areas with a passion, that's why I stopped replaying it, I just can't bring myself to make the trek to Vault City all over again just to get to the interesting parts. most other games I tried and disliked in the first 30-60 minutes would eventually prove bad anyway (BG, I'm looking at you)

[Shadeling]

 

 In contrast, the little moments you get with side characters and little villages etc are consistently excellent. Snowmen jailors locking up an earth elemental who protested that those made of earth were being elementally discriminated against, a dog with a bad smell fetish, brewing whiskey to get an encampment of orcs drunk...

in other words, things that I care less about than anything else in a game such as this  oh, well, what can you do

 

as for missing out on great games, the only truly great game that starts off really slow I can think of off the top of my head is Fallout 2. I hated the first few areas with a passion, that's why I stopped replaying it, I just can't bring myself to make the trek to Vault City all over again just to get to the interesting parts. most other games I tried and disliked in the first 30-60 minutes would eventually prove bad anyway (BG, I'm looking at you)

 

 

Well, I have to say that even though as a nerdy roleplayer girl, I want to really shake my head at you but then I have to check myself and remember that I have my own quirks too as a gamer in that I just can't get into games that have a male fixed protagonist. I've tried many a time in the past, enough so that I've finally come to the realization that I just have a preference and that's all there is to it. I don't connect with a male character enough so that I will stick with a game from start to finish.   But you wouldn't believe the amount of vitriol I get on various forums on the 'net when I state that. It's like I'm dissing males everywhere and I must be a feminazi, etc. 

 

So yeah, we all have our quirks and yet we can all enjoy a good rpg in our own ways.  Amirite!? 

[Orogun01]

 

 

 In contrast, the little moments you get with side characters and little villages etc are consistently excellent. Snowmen jailors locking up an earth elemental who protested that those made of earth were being elementally discriminated against, a dog with a bad smell fetish, brewing whiskey to get an encampment of orcs drunk...

in other words, things that I care less about than anything else in a game such as this  oh, well, what can you do

 

as for missing out on great games, the only truly great game that starts off really slow I can think of off the top of my head is Fallout 2. I hated the first few areas with a passion, that's why I stopped replaying it, I just can't bring myself to make the trek to Vault City all over again just to get to the interesting parts. most other games I tried and disliked in the first 30-60 minutes would eventually prove bad anyway (BG, I'm looking at you)

 

 

Well, I have to say that even though as a nerdy roleplayer girl, I want to really shake my head at you but then I have to check myself and remember that I have my own quirks too as a gamer in that I just can't get into games that have a male fixed protagonist. I've tried many a time in the past, enough so that I've finally come to the realization that I just have a preference and that's all there is to it. I don't connect with a male character enough so that I will stick with a game from start to finish.   But you wouldn't believe the amount of vitriol I get on various forums on the 'net when I state that. It's like I'm dissing males everywhere and I must be a feminazi, etc. 

 

So yeah, we all have our quirks and yet we can all enjoy a good rpg in our own ways.  Amirite!? 

 

Well, that's your prerogative but I gotta say that you're cutting yourself from the majority of games out there. It would be as a guy who missed out on Portal just because the MC was a girl, they don't get to experience a good game just because of a silly reason.

Plus, what kind of role player can't role play outside of their gender?

[Shadeling]

 

 

 

 In contrast, the little moments you get with side characters and little villages etc are consistently excellent. Snowmen jailors locking up an earth elemental who protested that those made of earth were being elementally discriminated against, a dog with a bad smell fetish, brewing whiskey to get an encampment of orcs drunk...

in other words, things that I care less about than anything else in a game such as this  oh, well, what can you do

 

as for missing out on great games, the only truly great game that starts off really slow I can think of off the top of my head is Fallout 2. I hated the first few areas with a passion, that's why I stopped replaying it, I just can't bring myself to make the trek to Vault City all over again just to get to the interesting parts. most other games I tried and disliked in the first 30-60 minutes would eventually prove bad anyway (BG, I'm looking at you)

 

 

Well, I have to say that even though as a nerdy roleplayer girl, I want to really shake my head at you but then I have to check myself and remember that I have my own quirks too as a gamer in that I just can't get into games that have a male fixed protagonist. I've tried many a time in the past, enough so that I've finally come to the realization that I just have a preference and that's all there is to it. I don't connect with a male character enough so that I will stick with a game from start to finish.   But you wouldn't believe the amount of vitriol I get on various forums on the 'net when I state that. It's like I'm dissing males everywhere and I must be a feminazi, etc. 

 

So yeah, we all have our quirks and yet we can all enjoy a good rpg in our own ways.  Amirite!? 

 

Well, that's your prerogative but I gotta say that you're cutting yourself from the majority of games out there. It would be as a guy who missed out on Portal just because the MC was a girl, they don't get to experience a good game just because of a silly reason.

Plus, what kind of role player can't role play outside of their gender?

 

Dude, you're not saying anything new here and you've completely missed my kumbahya moment.  You can't miss something you wouldn't enjoy in the first place. Get me? I've tried many times in the past. I've played Gothic, Deus Ex, etc lots of games and never finished any of them. The ones I do finish are the rpgs where I can create my own character. See? I just don't have the necessary connection to play a dude. There have been a couple of exceptions though, one being Blade Runner, which was an awesomely fantastic rendering onto the computer by Westwood Studios (RIP, thanks EA) but there's nothing much more awesome than Blade Runner especially when you get to actually do things like a Blade Runner would, ESPER was so cool! But that was not the norm for me. I connect with girls, not with boys. Funnily enough, when I see guys pipe up about not getting into playing chicks, they don't seem to get nearly as much flack as I do. What's up with that?! 

[ManifestedISO]

Dudes are boring to play, unless they're behind a mask and wear black and have twin weapons like cool guys do, Snake Eyes. Unless ... well, I'm really looking forward to The Last of Us Remastered in two weeks, and it's supposed to have a pretty cool unmasked male protagonist. But yeah, like, even all the comics I read are about the ladies ... Black Widow, She-Hulk, Wonder Woman, Elektra ...

 

Still tottering around in Cyseal, talking to guards, going through portals ... I tried not very hard to fight a big orc on the beach but he turned red and pummeled all three of us.  

Edited July 13, 2014 by ManifestedISO

[LordCrash]

 

 In contrast, the little moments you get with side characters and little villages etc are consistently excellent. Snowmen jailors locking up an earth elemental who protested that those made of earth were being elementally discriminated against, a dog with a bad smell fetish, brewing whiskey to get an encampment of orcs drunk...

in other words, things that I care less about than anything else in a game such as this  oh, well, what can you do

 

as for missing out on great games, the only truly great game that starts off really slow I can think of off the top of my head is Fallout 2. I hated the first few areas with a passion, that's why I stopped replaying it, I just can't bring myself to make the trek to Vault City all over again just to get to the interesting parts. most other games I tried and disliked in the first 30-60 minutes would eventually prove bad anyway (BG, I'm looking at you)

 

Well tbh a lot of that could be said about BG2 as well...

 

While Irenicus was a great antagonist the main idea behind the story wasn't as complex as it seemed. But the great atmosphere and the many good side quests and the variety made that game so enjoyable. D:OS offers of course way less content and depth (because nobody makes a game as big as BG2 anymore today) but it's made with a similar design approach in mind  while featuring a different overall tone (both in graphics/art design and storytelling)...

Edited July 13, 2014 by LordCrash

[licketysplit]

How is OS smaller than Baldur's Gate? The game is massive. Some folks are spending more than 80 hrs on it.