To the Mysoginist Writer in Bioware

[Gromnir]

 

is no wonder chrisA has managed to work her into every obsidian game since... though am not knowing about ap, ds3 or south park as we did not play those games. chrisA, for all the criticism we direct at him, did something wonderful with ravel, and is no surprise he has brought her along with him as he ha matured as a game developer. 

 

Now I'm curious - what do you mean by that? Which characters are modeled after Ravel, and what makes them tick?

I must confess that I never played PS:T long enough to encounter her. I've been meaning to give it a try but all this talk about how characters with high Wisdom and Intelligence are the only way to go kind of made me lose interest. (If someone tells you that there's so much to explore if you follow a very specific way of playing a game, you can become downright paranoid about missing vital information and find yourself stop playing. It's really a curse.)

 

kreia is most obvious example as she were a main character. gulk'aush in motb, gann's mom, is another ravel "hag." the blind seer with all the cats from iwd2 is one example that is easy to miss but were mentioned by chrisA in an interview. the ultimate "villain" from HoW also is 'posed to be a kinda homage/incarnation of/to ravel. etc. chrisA has done some blogs and interviews wherein he admits that ravel is kinda like an obsidian stan lee in marvel films... though that is not how chrisA describes o' course. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gizmo]

kreia is most obvious example as she were a main character. gulk'aush in motb, gann's mom, is another ravel "hag." the blind seer with all the cats from iwd2 is one example that is easy to miss but were mentioned by chrisA in an interview. the ultimate "villain" from HoW also is 'posed to be a kinda homage/incarnation of/to ravel. etc. chrisA has done some blogs and interviews wherein he admits that ravel is kinda like an obsidian stan lee in marvel films... though that is not how chrisA describes o' course. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

But she cannot appear in Torment.  (at least not officially. )

They haven't the rights to use any Planescape:Torment characters, and it's an awful shame that she will never be able to admit it in the game.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Gizmo

[Gromnir]

 

kreia is most obvious example as she were a main character. gulk'aush in motb, gann's mom, is another ravel "hag." the blind seer with all the cats from iwd2 is one example that is easy to miss but were mentioned by chrisA in an interview. the ultimate "villain" from HoW also is 'posed to be a kinda homage/incarnation of/to ravel. etc. chrisA has done some blogs and interviews wherein he admits that ravel is kinda like an obsidian stan lee in marvel films... though that is not how chrisA describes o' course. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

But she cannot appear in Torment.  (at least not officially. )

They haven't the rights to use any Planescape:Torment characters, and it's an awful shame that she will never be able to admit it in the game.

 

we can hope that the developers o' the new torment game come up with something unique and profound that will be forcing Gromnir to reevaluate what we thought were possible in a crpg. ravel were that kinda character. sure, we feel nostalgic whenever we see ravel in a new obsidian game, but we would be even more thrilled if inXile complete surprises with something beautifully unexpected.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

 

 

kreia is most obvious example as she were a main character. gulk'aush in motb, gann's mom, is another ravel "hag." the blind seer with all the cats from iwd2 is one example that is easy to miss but were mentioned by chrisA in an interview. the ultimate "villain" from HoW also is 'posed to be a kinda homage/incarnation of/to ravel. etc. chrisA has done some blogs and interviews wherein he admits that ravel is kinda like an obsidian stan lee in marvel films... though that is not how chrisA describes o' course. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

But she cannot appear in Torment.  (at least not officially. )

They haven't the rights to use any Planescape:Torment characters, and it's an awful shame that she will never be able to admit it in the game.

we can hope that the developers o' the new torment game come up with something unique and profound that will be forcing Gromnir to reevaluate what we thought were possible in a crpg. ravel were that kinda character. sure, we feel nostalgic whenever we see ravel in a new obsidian game, but we would be even more thrilled if inXile complete surprises with something beautifully unexpected.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I'm not too high on this project as I am with Eternity. I backed it on Kickstarter but from the design perspective, they seem to have too many chefs in the kitchen. Additionally their creative lead and top technical designer have both been out of the video game business for years - and distressingly, they've been in a state of extended pre-production work due to the delay of Wasteland 2.

[Gromnir]

 and distressingly, they've been in a state of extended pre-production work due to the delay of Wasteland 2.

 

that part don't bother us. am not so much concerned with getting a new torment soon. if wasteland 2 becomes a long warm-up for torment, then so much the better. 

 

am admitting that we have more confidence in the obsidian developers ability to deliver a competent product in a timely fashion.  we expect obsidian execution to be better. we will need to wait and see which game is more creative.

 

'course it ain't like there is an actual competition 'tween torment and poe. am expecting that is largely the same folks backing both titles. we would be overjoyed with two good games that is enjoyable for much different reasons.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

 

and distressingly, they've been in a state of extended pre-production work due to the delay of Wasteland 2.

 

that part don't bother us. am not so much concerned with getting a new torment soon. if wasteland 2 becomes a long warm-up for torment, then so much the better. 

 

am admitting that we have more confidence in the obsidian developers ability to deliver a competent product in a timely fashion.  we expect obsidian execution to be better. we will need to wait and see which game is more creative.

 

'course it ain't like there is an actual competition 'tween torment and poe. am expecting that is largely the same folks backing both titles. we would be overjoyed with two good games that is enjoyable for much different reasons.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Fair enough. I've played around with the W2 beta and it's progressing nicely enough. I've only gone as far as the Ag Center, which was designed by Avellone, so I can't speak to the rest of the game but from what I've seen, it shows some promise. Not a fan of the UI though, and it's somewhat difficult to do something as mundane as drag and drop.

[Bryy]

Love is a subjective concept. It is about whatever you want it to be. For me, it's just that section of the Venn diagram where friendship and sexuality overlap. 

 

.... whut?

[Erez]

"I just know most women"

 

 You just lost. Not all women are the same. They have different tastest, desire, outlooks, and opinions. Same with men. Stop stereotyping.Some women prefer the Angel type vampire and others prefer the Dracula type vampire. *shrug* Some women even start relationships with convicted rapists whoa re in prison!  Same with guys. Some guys like the young ladies some guys like the MILFS. Oh well.

Most simply means 51% or more  It gives enough room for many other types. In the end of the day when you look around and see who women are paired with you noticed most women are paired with men. And those who have the easiest time with the majority of women are those who act more manly (Confident types.)

As for your examples, First-Angel is the reliable(Still Alpha - Garrus)

Second-Dracula is the the badboy- Rebel)( Still alpha - Thane)

And third is the broken type (Male elf from dragonage and Anomen ) , There are many fixers out there but less than those who are drawn to alpha.

 

 

 

 

 

_{Creating an attractive choice for women isn't hard, all you have do is create a handsome and faithful alpha male(The Leader).}

 

_{Ps - I have nothing against Bi, I just know most women find men on men sex an unattractive trait.} 

 

Strangely enough, most women I know have an intense dislike for alpha-type guys and find men on men sex totally hawt.

 

I don't know what this says about the women I generally interact with.

 

Edit: OTOH, Bio also creates ****ty romances for men, so... hardly misogynistic?

 

 

I think its mostly about how you guys define alpha. Ask them if they ever been with a man who experienced man on man sex and if not, if they interested in seeing a movie about it? since they think its hawt. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Erez

[Erez]

 

Ps - I have nothing against Bi, I just know most women find men on men sex an unattractive trait. 

Yup, homophobes exist. 

 

I don't see how that has anything to do with why bisexual romances in fiction are a bad thing.

 

 

I am all up for having gay romances in video games, turning them away gently in bioware games made my in game experience more awkward and fun, sort of like what samantha traynor felt.

[Orogun01]

"I think its mostly about how you guys define alpha. Ask them if they ever been with a man who experienced man on man sex and if not, if they interested in seeing a movie about it? since they think its hawt. "

 

There is a difference between a gay film and a film about gays, one directly appeals to the culture while the other just happens to be a good story involving one or more gays. Which is why I don't like Sex and the City but liked Milk and I love you Philip Morris.

[Prince of Wales]

Love is a subjective concept. It is about whatever you want it to be. For me, it's just that section of the Venn diagram where friendship and sexuality overlap. 

 

.... whut?

In other words, love/romance is just a subset of both friendship and sexuality that combines aspects of the two, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Prince of Wales

[Amentep]

the squid women is portrayed as libidinous, but the me 1 liara were purposeful written as kinda innocent and naive.  were she a "virgin"? we don't recall.

She was supposed to be young for an Asari (106 years) and had thrown herself into proving her work after she'd broken with her mom. I'd suspect the intention was that she hadn't been in a romantic/sexual relationship before but I don't know if they come out and say that.

 

And while I agree with the distinction you're making regarding the terminology of "bi-sexual" with regard to the characters in the game, I'm not sure that matters to the person making the initial arguments.

[Erez]

I just thought I give a few names of the best alpha males I ran across in the industry

 

1) Captain Titus (The Leader)

 

2) The Warden (The Leader -  Rebel - Bad Boy Mixture)

 

3) Niko Belic(Bad Boy), Not as good looking. but like many criminal types his strong personality and confidence project Alpha

 

4)  Valygar (baldurs gate 2) (The Rebel)

 

5) Benny  -  New Vegas - Its all about the style Baby.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Erez

[Bester]

Valygar is as much alfa as a japanese school girl.

 

Do you even know alfa traits? Ok fine, here they are:

 

- High self-esteem, low esteem for others

- Faith in own infallibility

- High threshold to realization of threat, which leads to underestimation of dangerous situations (on average)

- Resolute care for own comfort, health and security (if danger is detected)

- Optimism, certainty in own future

- Boastfulness, smugness

- Disposition towards taking action quicker than others and not over-thinking

- Ability to act regardless of others' opinions and problems

- Irreflexivity

- High threshold to realization of own fault

- Unwillingness to recognize criticism towards self

- Enterprising, pushing, persevering

- Big professional, social and material ambitions

- Leadership skills

- Extraversion, shamelessness, openness

- Egoism

- High tolerance of stressful situations, ability to calmly manage conflict situations

- Emits a lot of signals - loud, uses a lot of space around him like it was his own

- For men: sexual successfulness, for women: sexual dominance

 

 

Omega traits:

- Low self-esteem, tendency towards complexes of inferiority

- Can suffer through discomforts, uncomfortable way of life

- Tendency towards pessimism and depressions, uncertainty in own future

- Indecisiveness, thinks for a long time before taking a decision

- Low threshold to realization of threat, which leads to overestimation of dangerous situations (on average)

- Dependency on opinions of others, fear of offending someone, reflexivity

- Low threshold to realization of own fault, pudency

- Conformism

- Doesn't have big professional and material ambitions

- No leadership skills

- Altruism, self-sacrifice, self-criticism

- Tendency to bow before authoritative people, to believe them; religiousness

- Introversion, secretiveness, doesn't emit signals like loud sounds

- Shyness, compliance, law-abiding

- Touchiness, susceptibility to offense, punctiliousness

- For men: sexually unsuccessful, for women: passive in sex

Edited July 4, 2014 by Bester

[Fiaryn]

Please stop writing alpha as alfa you are only making me think of delicious alfalfa.

 

While I'm at it: Alpha/Beta/Omega is a load of complete pseudopsychology nonsense primarily propagated by PUAs/MRAs and related communities.

 

Also, I've yet to meet a romance option in a videogame that wasn't some flavor of pandering and bad.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Fiaryn

[Volourn]

All games are pandering. All. of. them.

[Fiaryn]

Sure. While we're at it, both Pillars of Eternity and Superman 64 contain code. Checkmate.

 

There can be good pandering and bad pandering. Citadel for Mass Effect 3 is probably the best handled fanservice I can think of because at it's heart, it's just goofy fun and wants to give a good sendoff to the characters you love. Absolute fanservice, doesn't really help or hurt the overall narrative, but there's nothing wrong with that when it's done right.

 

Romance options typically feel, at best, a sort of cringe inducingly manipulative. Like they're trying to lure in an extra lonely kind of videogame playing geek and it's just uncomfortable to even think about. The romances themselves are never believable, because how could they be, they're usually just "put in the right four or five dialogue responses to get your sex scene". Hooray you have now performed the scary task of socializing with a girl without leaving the safety of your own room. Maybe if videogame romances were more integrated into the critical path of the narrative, they could work better.

 

Mask of the Betrayer comes to mind. The whole thing with Safiya I found pretty interesting because, well, it is what you make of it. Safiya herself is all but trying to force a romance between you and you have a lot of valid, lore supported ways to react to that. The fact that it feels forced is part of the point in that case. Perhaps a deconstruction of the usual romance? Not sure if I'd go that far but it's a thought.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Fiaryn

[Volourn]

"Like they're trying to lure in an extra lonely kind of videogame playing geek and it's just uncomfortable to even think about."

 

No such thing. All video game playing geeks are lonely so they can't be 'extra lonely'.

[Bester]

Please stop writing alpha as alfa you are only making me think of delicious alfalfa.

 

While I'm at it: Alpha/Beta/Omega is a load of complete pseudopsychology nonsense primarily propagated by PUAs/MRAs and related communities.

 

Also, I've yet to meet a romance option in a videogame that wasn't some flavor of pandering and bad.

 

As long as you reject the Truth, you'll always be an omega, my friend. Just look and learn:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4BAxSjax0

Edited July 4, 2014 by Bester

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

While I'm at it: Alpha/Beta/Omega is a load of complete pseudopsychology nonsense primarily propagated by PUAs/MRAs and related communities.

 

 

As long as you reject the Truth, you'll always be an omega, my friend. 

 

 

I'm... trying to think of ways for you to be cruder. It's just... not coming.

[BruceVC]

best game romance for us don't even have a close second: ravel puzzelwell & the nameless one. 

 

 

 

Gromnir would you say you found Ravel attractive as a Romance option if she had been one?

 

And there is judgement here, I generally never question anyone's Romance interest

[Erez]

Valygar is as much alfa as a japanese school girl.

 

 

 

Good Post, which I am sure helps on this topic, I admit I didn't remember much of valygar except that he was the rebel, I didn't even keep him as a regular party member in bg, but I was looking for a nonwhite character, and I guess they just didn't create any alpha black characters yet in gaming. The rest of the people I mentioned still stand and if I needed to replace Valygar with someone else I would put in Twinsen.

Heck Twinsen should probably open the list. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Romance options typically feel, at best, a sort of cringe inducingly manipulative. Like they're trying to lure in an extra lonely kind of videogame playing geek and it's just uncomfortable to even think about. The romances themselves are never believable, because how could they be, they're usually just "put in the right four or five dialogue responses to get your sex scene". Hooray you have now performed the scary task of socializing with a girl without leaving the safety of your own room. Maybe if videogame romances were more integrated into the critical path of the narrative, they could work better.

.

 

Sexual encounter between two people doesn't really have a time requirement, you don't even need to speak the same language and I am not talking about buying sex either. When two people click they can go at each other after a few hours or less.

Its important to remember that companions in games experience memorable and exciting things which are known to bond between different people, the conversation to activate the romance are just a bonus. I was surprised there weren't more of jack style romance, when she calls Shepard on his bull**** and just initiate sex. 

 

In order to improve romances I would actually recommend minigames like in Larry, so you would feel more involved.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Erez

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

And there is judgement here, I generally never question anyone's Romance interest

 

 

Even if there were any, the gerontophiliac implications go away the moment one remembers that we're talking about an entity capable of shapeshifting

[BruceVC]

 

 

And there is judgement here, I generally never question anyone's Romance interest

 

 

Even if there were any, the gerontophiliac implications go away the moment one remembers that we're talking about an entity capable of shapeshifting

 

 

 

That's actually an excellent point. You wouldn't be worried about the looks of a Night Hag because she could look like anyone she or you wants.

 

But the Night Hag may start thinking the Romance is superficial if you always expect her to look like someone else during moments of intimacy

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

But the Night Hag may start thinking the Romance is superficial if you always expect her to look like someone else during moments of intimacy

 

 

I don't really think ugly people are especially attached to being ugly, even less so if they have an at-will capacity to shapeshift at hand