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Update #79: Graphics and Rendering

Graphics Rendering Lighting Programming Adam Brennecke Update 79

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#21
Jotra

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I just love how this game looks. It's exactly like IE games brought to modern day. If I had one request though it would be the show some areas that really embrace the high fantasy aspect of the game like eg. Temple of Talos in BG2.



#22
Quadrone

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You're going to get several stories from gaming sites in the wake of the show ... Just like any other game. What else do need between that and the regular updates we get here?

All we were promised as backers is a game and a chance to get a much deeper look at the development process, no one ever said we would get unlimited access.

 

 

Did I say anything about unlimited access? Did I demand anything?

If there is any kind of coverage during or shortly after E3 that is all I'm hoping for.

But to me it sounded like any kind of coverage made at E3 would not be released at all until Obsidian chose to do it themselves.

 


Knew someone would bring this up. The press has already seen a lot of the game that we haven't, in the production spreadsheet there were three press demos planned (none of which we have seen). This is nothing different.

The team decided back in 2012 that they would keep the story under NDA, which the press will be subject to as well. Hopefully we do eventually get a gameplay video though like Shadowrun Returns and Wasteland 2.

 

 

Well, like I just said now, I don't demand to have any and all info revealed to me but this is E3 after all. And considering how much further along Eternity is now and how big a media spectacle E3 usually is, I wouldn't have been surprised if there were some extra scraps to pick up for us.


Edited by Quadrone, 28 May 2014 - 10:05 AM.


#23
Bryy

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Do I understand that right? You'll be at E3 show of footage and talk to the press but all behind closed doors?

Meaning we (the fans) will get nothing out of it, neither directly or indirectly via the media?

Except for some pics of the event several weeks later?

This is a bit weird since it's a Kickstarted game, but nothing out of the ordinary.



#24
Gumbercules

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Great update! Everything definitely seems to fit together much better than before, and it'll look even better once the 2D details are painted on. The dynamic cloth at the end also looks really good. Do hoods always stay up, or can they be raised and lowered?

 

I agree with those saying the music grew on them since it was first revealed. As with pretty much every other aspect of the game, I'm still hoping for some more unusual stuff, but what's been shown so far is a good baseline.

 

I don't know, but what I do know, since I'm a bit savvy when it comes to meteorites, that what we see here is in all likelihood a temple built around a huge meteorite! :w00t:  It's a huge meteorite body, mainly composed of metal, and it's characteristically thumbprinted (so most likely, it's having iron as its main component). Any ideas what kind of cult this may be? And what are the implications for the clash between science, magic and superstition?

 

If I had to guess I would say that it's an ancient Engwithan ruin with a giant chunk of adra, not a meteorite, in the middle. The architecture definitely looks more interesting than before; I like the scaly decorations on the columns.


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#25
Valorian

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Beautiful as usual.

I'm trying to avoid looking at all the maps, models and other visual stuff too much, but it's not easy. I'd like everything to be a surprise when I finally play this game (well, except the systems and combat mechanics).  :geek:



#26
AndreaColombo

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Amazing stuff, guys.

 

Amazing stuff.


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#27
SunBroSolaire

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Wow, this is a really good looking game. The day/night cycle, dynamic lighting and shadow effects are really impressive in a 2D art style - I've never seen anything like it. Huge props to Michael Edwards.

 

Good luck at E3, Obsidian!


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#28
Sensuki

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Well, like I just said now, I don't demand to have any and all info revealed to me but this is E3 after all. And considering how much further along Eternity is now and how big a media spectacle E3 usually is, I wouldn't have been surprised if there were some extra scraps to pick up for us.


E3 isn't like it used to be. I remember when it was open to the public, now it's a press only event.

It would be cool to see a combat video or something but I have a feeling that we really aren't going to see anything like that until the end of Alpha 2 (right now they're in Alpha 1), when the combat animations, and FX are close to finalized.

#29
Landak

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Great update! I've got two points: 

 

-- I think it'd be a good idea to the environment lights cast shadows, even when characters are in shadow -- at present, the figure standing in the top left of the video isn't casting a shadow from the window's light, and it looks a bit odd. 

 

-- I second the request that we be told as much as the press are! 



#30
IndiraLightfoot

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More on the meteorite temple theory:

What we see here is very consistent with large iron meteorites, which are composed of iron-nickel alloys. The thumbprints on the surface are called "regmaglypts". These are formed when materials of the meteor get ablated as it passes through the Earth's atmosphere.

 

From the wiki: "Iron meteorites were historically used for their meteoric iron which was forged into cultural objects, tools or weapons. With the advent of smelting and the beginning of the iron age the importance of iron meteorites as a resource decreased, at least in those cultures that developed those techniques. The Inuit used the Cape York meteorite for a much longer time. Iron meteorites themselves were sometimes used unaltered as collectibles or even religious symbols (e.g. Clackamas worshiping the Willamette meteorite)."

 

Since this could be a huge iron meteorite, or rather a few of them gathered together (from one and the same meteor), it would attract any kind of magnet extremely well. However, these meteorites are not magnets per se.


Edited by IndiraLightfoot, 28 May 2014 - 10:25 AM.


#31
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Gumbercules: "a living shell-like substance called adra", that was PE wiki says, and temples were built out of it. However, clearly this temple in the screenie is not. Perhaps "adra" is mistaken for all of this in certain cultures in the world of PE - but scientifically, they are indeed meteorites?

 

EDIT: Gumbercules is absolutely right, though. I just found this:

"Adra – is a grown, abalone shell-like material, often used to bind souls and magical energy into items. Engwithans used it both as structural elements and for binding purposes in their architecture. Often they would build things like traditional stone arches and grow adra in-between, using it like slow-growing mortar. As their buildings fall apart, it results in impossible-looking/gravity-defying ruins."

 

However, the artists have taken lots of inspiration from how thumbprinted iron meteorites look, if that's the case! :)


Edited by IndiraLightfoot, 28 May 2014 - 10:27 AM.


#32
coffeetable

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Great update! Technical question though: going by this old cookie

 

eternity_resolutions_iwd.jpg

 

the high res maps are looking to be ~15,000x10,000 pixels. With two layers of 24 bit colour and one at 8 bit monochrome, that works out to ~600MB of raw data a map. Are you using lossy or lossless compression or no compression? If you're compressing it, does the decompression take a notable amount of time during level load? Or do you stream it in a tile at a time?

 

Also if you've got dozens of maps like this, just how big of a download is the game probably gonna be?


Edited by coffeetable, 28 May 2014 - 10:30 AM.

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#33
Adam Brennecke

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Great update! I've got two points: 

 

-- I think it'd be a good idea to the environment lights cast shadows, even when characters are in shadow -- at present, the figure standing in the top left of the video isn't casting a shadow from the window's light, and it looks a bit odd. 

 

-- I second the request that we be told as much as the press are! 

 

Good eye! We would like to have point light shadows too. It's one of those things that got snipped for Alpha, but at some point down the road we will be revisiting it.


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#34
Stun

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More on the meteorite temple theory:
What we see here is very consistent with large iron meteorites, which are composed of iron-nickel alloys. The thumbprints on the surface are called "regmaglypts". These are formed when materials of the meteor get ablated as it passes through the Earth's atmosphere.
 
From the wiki: "Iron meteorites were historically used for their meteoric iron which was forged into cultural objects, tools or weapons. With the advent of smelting and the beginning of the iron age the importance of iron meteorites as a resource decreased, at least in those cultures that developed those techniques. The Inuit used the Cape York meteorite for a much longer time. Iron meteorites themselves were sometimes used unaltered as collectibles or even religious symbols (e.g. Clackamas worshiping the Willamette meteorite)."
 
Since this could be a huge iron meteorite, or rather a few of them gathered together (from one and the same meteor), it would attract any kind of magnet extremely well. However, these meteorites are not magnets per se.


Hey! One of the only plot tidbits we've gotten so far was that we witness a profound supernatural event. Maybe it's a meteor that crashes into the ground lol.

#35
IndiraLightfoot

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Stun: That would be legendary enough! That could very well be.



#36
Adam Brennecke

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Great update! Technical question though: going by this old cookie

 

eternity_resolutions_iwd.jpg

 

the high res maps are looking to be ~15,000x10,000 pixels. With two layers of 24 bit colour and one at 8 bit monochrome, that works out to ~600MB of raw data a map. Are you using lossy or lossless compression or no compression? If you're compressing it, does the decompression take a notable amount of time during level load? Or do you stream it in a tile at a time?

 

Also if you've got dozens of maps like this, just how big of a download is the game probably gonna be?

 

There's actually four layers - final, depth, albedo, and normals - all 32 or 24 bit. They are all compressed, but in a way to preserve as much detail as possible. Decompression is quick, and most of the load time is spent loading the textures off of disk. I don't have the exact size, but the game is going to be average download for today's standards.


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#37
Sensuki

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Are you using lossy or lossless compression or no compression? If you're compressing it, does the decompression take a notable amount of time during level load? Or do you stream it in a tile at a time?


In Josh's GDC presentation he said they use DXT compression (which I think is lossy) and they stream tiles in so the levels load faster. This may have changed though.

Another thing is way back it was said there was going to be two sets of assets

720p and 1440p renders. Looks like the assets have now been standardized into 1080p ?

Edited by Sensuki, 28 May 2014 - 10:48 AM.


#38
Gumbercules

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Gumbercules: "a living shell-like substance called adra", that was PE wiki says, and temples were built out of it. However, clearly this temple in the screenie is not. Perhaps "adra" is mistaken for all of this in certain cultures in the world of PE - but scientifically, they are indeed meteorites?

 

EDIT: Gumbercules is absolutely right, though. I just found this:

"Adra – is a grown, abalone shell-like material, often used to bind souls and magical energy into items. Engwithans used it both as structural elements and for binding purposes in their architecture. Often they would build things like traditional stone arches and grow adra in-between, using it like slow-growing mortar. As their buildings fall apart, it results in impossible-looking/gravity-defying ruins."

 

However, the artists have taken lots of inspiration from how thumbprinted iron meteorites look, if that's the case! :)

 

I looked through the previous updates and there is a screenshot of adra standing stones in Update 65 that looks different from what's in the latest screenshot (it's more pearlescent) so I may be wrong, or there may be multiple types of adra, or they decided to change how it looks. The new stuff to me looks crystalline, with a yellow glow from some off-screen light source, and it looks like whatever is in the Pillars of Eternity logo, or in the Update 77 screenshot.


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#39
IndiraLightfoot

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Gumbercules: Nice digging! :) You are right, those in Update 65 look nothing like the ones we saw now or more recently. The weathering and the patina wouldn't make much more difference. The old version of adra looks like eroded limestone formations or rather fossilized kitchenmiddens or something. The ones in the logo are something different yet again. They look more like volcanic glass - and guess what! That would be Obsidian, for instance. :)


Edited by IndiraLightfoot, 28 May 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#40
Quadrone

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If I had to guess I would say that it's an ancient Engwithan ruin with a giant chunk of adra, not a meteorite, in the middle. The architecture definitely looks more interesting than before; I like the scaly decorations on the columns.

 

Maybe I am being Captain Obvious here, but isn't our Meteorite/Adra chunk the same formation we can see in the PoE Logo?

 

Edit: Too slow


Edited by Quadrone, 28 May 2014 - 10:57 AM.






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