European Parliamentary Elections results, major concern?

[Meshugger]

A picture says more than a thousand words :D

[Elerond]

From the farce department, the guy who got most votes (eu elections in Finland are on a single nationwide list) announced today that he's going to attempt to hecome the next prime minister of Finland, ie. not spend a single day representing the people who voted for him.

 

You mean that he wants to become his party's, that is currently ruling party in Finland, leader which would make him as prime minister of of Finland, which would mean that he would get seat in Council of the European Union, which is higher in food chain than European Parliament and then he can choose about any person that he sees a fit from his party to take his place in Parliament, which one could say would mean that he would then have seat both in Council and Parliament and as prime minister he has much easier time to ensure that Finnish government is on same page as he.

 

So I would not say that he don't represent those people  that voted him, but that he will maybe represent them too much.

[Gorgon]

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

[BruceVC]

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

Gorgon do you feel guilty that most of the international news channels are positioning Denmark as being one of the EU countries where the far right has gained immense popularity?

 

Do you think you personally could have done more to counter this rise of the right in your country?

[Elerond]

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

Gorgon do you feel guilty that most of the international news channels are positioning Denmark as being one of the EU countries where the far right has gained immense popularity?

 

Do you think you personally could have done more to counter this rise of the right in your country?

 

 

Populist parties that use people's fears and nostalgia as their driving force often gain popularity during low economical times and global crises, because isolation politic that those parties usually offer seems to many a good solution to lessen impact from those crisis. Of course such isolation most often would bite back much heavier consequences in long run, but many people don't want look far in future, if their short term outlook is grim. 

 

And in European Parliament elections populist parties have even higher chance to get lots of seats as many people feel that European Parliament is strange institute that don't have impact on them and they see these elections as waste of time that works only as survey to see what parties are popular, which means that people that aren't unhappy on current system will more likely not to go to cast their vote than those that feel that current government has done poor job.  

 

So overall popularity of populist parties in country is with high chance much lower than what their seat numbers in EP indicates, and their impact in EU's politics probably will be quite meaningless, as EPP and S&D have still over 50% of seats and populist parties have often hard time to do cooperation as their agendas are in most matters against each other, because of their politics that look only in their own self-interest. Dismantling EU and Euro and anti-immigration (and even this will cause discord because many of those parties count most people from other EU countries to belong in those immigrants that they don't want in their country and which opinions and needs they don't want to consider in their politics) are often only real common ground that those parties currently can find, which don't carry very far.

 

These elections give good remainder why it is quite good thing that EU is so bureaucratic institution which make changing it difficult and slow process, as it less vulnerable towards short sighted politics that raise temporal issues, at least it looks like that this is the case, of course EU is still young union, which make it harder to predict how it's systems will work in long run. 

[Monte Carlo]

Bruce what do you mean by 'The Right?'

 

• Do you mean Civic Nationalists with poujadist tendencies and protectionist, neo-Socialist economic policies (FN in France)?
• Or do you mean scary Neo-Nazis like Golden Dawn (Greece) or Jobbik (Hungary)?
• Perhaps you mean Alternative for Germany, a thoughtful bunch of wonkish types who want monetary reform?
• Or do you mean UKIP, the essentially Libertarian, populist anti-immigration / EU party in Great Britain?

Or any of the others you lump in with 'The Right'? I suspect you mean the likes of Golden Dawn etc but like many on the political left it suits you to lump them all in together. I'm no fan of the Left but I understand the difference between Euro-Socialist, Social Democrat and Hard Left / Greens.

 

75% of the right-of-centre parties who did well last week are fairly tame, mainstream and avowedly democratic. The DPP in Denmark are ludicrously cuddly compared to Jobbik, for example.

[BruceVC]

Bruce what do you mean by 'The Right?'

 

• Do you mean Civic Nationalists with poujadist tendencies and protectionist, neo-Socialist economic policies (FN in France)?
• Or do you mean scary Neo-Nazis like Golden Dawn (Greece) or Jobbik (Hungary)?
• Perhaps you mean Alternative for Germany, a thoughtful bunch of wonkish types who want monetary reform?
• Or do you mean UKIP, the essentially Libertarian, populist anti-immigration / EU party in Great Britain?

Or any of the others you lump in with 'The Right'? I suspect you mean the likes of Golden Dawn etc but like many on the political left it suits you to lump them all in together. I'm no fan of the Left but I understand the difference between Euro-Socialist, Social Democrat and Hard Left / Greens.

 

75% of the right-of-centre parties who did well last week are fairly tame, mainstream and avowedly democratic. The DPP in Denmark are ludicrously cuddly compared to Jobbik, for example.

 

I do realize I am generalizing and some of the "far right " parties are more anti-establishment than right wing  but its easier just to say "right" parties who gained popularity than to have to go into a more accurate definition for each country. Those who follow EU politics know these is a difference between the UKIP and Golden Dawn for example so I feel I don't need to go into specifics

 

And yes my definition of far right is more Golden Dawn but the definition is complicated and becomes subjective

[Gorgon]

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

Gorgon do you feel guilty that most of the international news channels are positioning Denmark as being one of the EU countries where the far right has gained immense popularity?

 

Do you think you personally could have done more to counter this rise of the right in your country?

 

The international News don't know what they are talking about, but it's hard to blame them when one of the front runners is called Morten Messerschmidt. He once got really drunk in Tivoli gardens and started 'heiling', true story. It was entirely a joke, but all the associations are there.

[Monte Carlo]

Personally I think the FN is the most sinister of all the populist parties. Partly because France is so important, partly because Marine Le Pen is an effective politician but mainly because it's a leopard I don't believe has really changed it's spots. Oh, and it's actually more of a hard left party when you look at their economic policy.

 

Mainstream politicians have a duty to listen to the mood music and change tack, to take the wind out of extremist's sails. The rancid and ludicrous Hollande has manifestly failed to do this. Before him, Sarkozy also failed. The French are deeply conservative and loathe change. I suspect if they keep on voting for the FN they will get change all right, but possibly not of the type they hoped for.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

 

I don't actually remember the EU being popular ever as such, most of the major national parties realise that it's necessary.

 

 

It's partially my fault actually, I didn't bother voting. Also it's not the 'far right' in Denmark. It's your slightly racist grandmother's party, the 'medium right', and as we all know, old people vote.

 

They don't want to be associated with front nationalle and their like and have rejected forming such alliances.

 

Gorgon do you feel guilty that most of the international news channels are positioning Denmark as being one of the EU countries where the far right has gained immense popularity?

 

Do you think you personally could have done more to counter this rise of the right in your country?

 

The international News don't know what they are talking about, but it's hard to blame them when one of the front runners is called Morten Messerschmidt. He once got really drunk in Tivoli gardens and started 'heiling', true story. It was entirely a joke, but all the associations are there.

 

 

In summary what in your opinion  does this DPP stand for from an ideological and political  perspective

Here is a link that discusses other " far right " parties that have won seats in the EU parliament, do you guys think the definition of these parties is accurate?

 

 

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-05-27/seven-far-right-parties-that-made-gains-at-european-elections/

[Monte Carlo]

^ AS far as it goes, but it proves my point - those are the fringe parties. Most of 'The Right' who did well in the elections (FN notwihstanding) are not even remotely in the same ideological grid square.

 

The biggest mistake the liberal left have made in Europe is to try and paint anyone with valid concerns about immigration as being 'far right' or racist. It's come back to bite them on the arse.

[Gorgon]

There's nothing about DPP on that page, or I'm blind. 

[BruceVC]

There's nothing about DPP on that page, or I'm blind. 

 

You right they omitted the DPP for some reason but what does the DPP stand for politically ? I can google it but I prefer to get the view of people who live in Denmark

[213374U]

Personally I think the FN is the most sinister of all the populist parties. Partly because France is so important, partly because Marine Le Pen is an effective politician but mainly because it's a leopard I don't believe has really changed it's spots. Oh, and it's actually more of a hard left party when you look at their economic policy.

 

Well, that's unsurprising. Unless they actually start suggesting collectivization of agriculture, nationalization of means of production and the works, which sounds a bit leninist for most voters' sensibilities, the economic policies of most parties with a strong populist-statist streak (read: authoritarian wannabes) are difficult to tell from one another, regardless of whether they market themselves as right- or left-wing. It doesn't get much more right-wing than ol' NSDAP, and by the standards of any liberal democracy, their economic policy was seriously left-wing: Huge public works to bandage the rampant unemployment, direct state control over strategic economic sectors, price controls, reining in small businesses, etc. It's all about the degree of control, and the window dressing is tailored around the voter target they intend to make suckers out of, really.

 

[BruceVC]

 

Personally I think the FN is the most sinister of all the populist parties. Partly because France is so important, partly because Marine Le Pen is an effective politician but mainly because it's a leopard I don't believe has really changed it's spots. Oh, and it's actually more of a hard left party when you look at their economic policy.

 

Well, that's unsurprising. Unless they actually start suggesting collectivization of agriculture, nationalization of means of production and the works, which sounds a bit leninist for most voters' sensibilities, the economic policies of most parties with a strong populist-statist streak (read: authoritarian wannabes) are difficult to tell from one another, regardless of whether they market themselves as right- or left-wing. It doesn't get much more right-wing than ol' NSDAP, and by the standards of any liberal democracy, their economic policy was seriously left-wing: Huge public works to bandage the rampant unemployment, direct state control over strategic economic sectors, price controls, reining in small businesses, etc. It's all about the degree of control, and the window dressing is tailored around the voter target they intend to make suckers out of, really.

 

 

 

What's your view on the future of the EU 2133?

[Gorgon]

 

There's nothing about DPP on that page, or I'm blind. 

 

You right they omitted the DPP for some reason but what does the DPP stand for politically ? I can google it but I prefer to get the view of people who live in Denmark

 

Immigration = bad. EU = bad. Muslims in general = bad. Danish values = good, although no one seems to know exactly what those are. 

[Rosbjerg]

It's a lib/soc party with a heavy anti-immigration policy. Their primary voters are from rural areas and with a short education, but they always manage to take a good portion of the swing votes due to their broad sprectrum and "here and now" issue politics. They want to limit the EU to basically trade only, which is most likely why they got such a massive backing in the election.

They are however experts at manipulating public opinion, I'll give them that - and were clever enough to stay out of the government, but stay in the coalition. That way they could influence decisions and still criticize anything they didn't agree with (which is basically what they do). It's fiendishly clever, cause you get to capitalize on every winning and deflect every loss.. and voters are eating it up.

[Walsingham]

The really important point for EU tubthumpers is that almost no bastard voted.

 

The really important unanswered question is: what is the point of a nation which no one feels even the slightest interest in?

 

...besides the bureaucrats getting fat off it.

[Wrath of Dagon]

To expand on Monte's point, the nazis are actually far left, because, you know, they're socialists, it's right there in the name. To call them far right is an intentional slander against the right.

[Barothmuk]

Not sure if serious.

[Zoraptor]

Some people seriously do believe that NSDAP were socialist because of the S (and, indeed, the A) in their name. Of course, the nazis were stridently- to put it mildly- anti left wing and pretty much immediately liquidated what left wing elements they had such as Rohm and the SA after taking power... And you don't tend to get the same people believing that the DPRK is best most democratic Korea and DDR the most democratic Germany because of their names.

 

To be fair though, the left/ right wing dichotomy is ridiculously simplistic considering the complexity of most party's policies.

[BruceVC]

The really important point for EU tubthumpers is that almost no bastard voted.

 

The really important unanswered question is: what is the point of a nation which no one feels even the slightest interest in?

 

...besides the bureaucrats getting fat off it.

 

Reading all the comments from people who live in the EU has made me realize something, or rather has made me think of the biggest challenge facing the continued longevity of the EU

 

When I asked questions what people didn't like about EU there are several common themes that are relevant like immigration and a distant central government that people don't relate to

 

But what about the issue of identity? I don't think the EU countries share a true common identity and that's understandable. For example the French are the French and have there own history. They may have great fondness for the Norwegians but do they really share an identity? The EU is an attempt to force a common framework between countries that for thousands of years have been proudly independent through there history, culture and language. No wonder there is this rise of nationalism with "far right " parties gaining votes through slogans like " we represent the true identity of country x"

 

Its actually been relatively easy for "far right" parties to gain support not just because  the EU parliament sits in Brussels but the fact that end of the day I think most people prefer  being part of there own country and culture rather  than being part of some nebulous " EU common brotherhood". You then add economic and social issues to the EU mix and you have serious disillusionment with the EU structures

 

I am not suggesting the EU countries don't like each other or xenophobia is systemic. I am saying you can't force countries to form a union with the objective of economic prosperity without looking at the important issue of cultural identity and how that will be effect the perception of the success of the union as time goes on

 

Look at the USA, each state is almost like a separate country. But the USA works because despite some of the differences between the states almost all US citizens are united by one common thread. They are all American in identity. And that's what the EU lacks?

[Nepenthe]

P.s., the Norwegians aren't in the EU

[JadedWolf]

To expand on Monte's point, the nazis are actually far left, because, you know, they're socialists, it's right there in the name. To call them far right is an intentional slander against the right.

 

You hear that a lot. It almost sounds like it would be logical. "Well, they call themselves socialists, so they must be, innit?" Hitler was decidedly anti-Marxist and had no interest in getting the means of production in the hands of the proletariat. The reason his party was called the National-Socialist party was that there were many Germans who were supporters of the S.D.P., the social democrat party. Hitler figured they would have more chance of getting these German votes if they called themselves socialist, with the little twist of putting "national" in front of it. And certainly, the nazi regime did have some overlap with socialism economically, but at the heart it was a completely different ideology. It was more related to fascism, with a focus on racial theory and minority exclusion, and it had very little to do with social equality and worker's rights.

[Meshugger]

Also, while Hitler hated the socialists and their ideology, he admired their organizational setup in their protests. He used to study their chantings, marches, flagwaving and use of symbolical regalia because it inspired the masses. He simply copied those aspects and incorperated them into his own NSDAP-rallies, which is as far socialist the guy got.

 

I suggest reading "The rise and fall of the Third Reich", there you can get a quite good understanding on what went on in Hitler's head and Germany in general between 1920-1945.