Female gamers having a hard time in gaming communites

[BruceVC]

 

 

Ahem - click on my profile and read this post of mine a few pages back...

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66172-female-gamers-having-a-hard-time-in-gaming-communites/?p=1447263

 

I still don't get it. So you are male? I wonder why MC said female. I was under the impression you guys voicechat during CoH games.

 

does it matter? we likes to picture all of you naked... but naked and looking like monica bellucci, grace kelly, bettie page, etc. is amazing how much more interesting reading a vol posts is as long as we can hold onto such images. 

 

one o' the positives o' the internet is that it frequent don't matter if you is rich, poor, ugly, beautiful or... whatever. say something worthwhile and people will listen.  am not saying that is always the case, but it is nice that we can post and not have to get special treatment just 'cause we is beautiful-- our stunning good looks being a bit of a curse.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Gromnir I know I'm not wrong around your sex, you are a female right?

[Gromnir]

our sister went to Berkeley after we did. she lived at the "roachdale" co-op and had seven roommates, all of whom were lesbian. our sister were one o' those statistics-- she were assaulted coming home from the library one night. so, we started visiting her almost every weekend... you know, 'cause that is what brothers do when they can't do anything useful. anyway we got to spend loads o' time with her new friends. hanging out with a bunch o' lesbians almost every weekend for a couple years, and routinely kicking their arses in basketball, were the closest we has ever come to being female.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[tajerio]

 

Well, the gross oversimplification of your post rubs me the wrong way.  

 

Certainly there are a great many Americans who take advantage of the remarkable free speech situation here, and pass over into the realm of abuse.  But to generalize about all Americans from the data of a notorious minority is just silly.  I think most Americans probably do honestly believe that the First Amendment guaranteeing free speech is the most important, for reasons other than allowing arseholes to spew racist trash that might well be considered abuse.  That's a side consequence of believing that people ought to be able to say what they want without fearing the heavy hand of an intrusive government.

 

 

I apologize, I spoke (typed?) out of anger and did not mean to offend you. Obviously it was a generalisation, but I do have a point - I have never seen anything out of America (keeping in mind that as a European, almost my entire exposure is through the media) that "defended" free speech for anything other than abuse. In fact, the only times I've heard about it in any other context is when people argued against it during the whole Snowden debacle.

 

 

I took no personal offence, so no worries.  

 

Now that's a fair point.  Mostly it's because that's the kind of free speech that's causing social dislocation in the US at present.  We're pretty well settled on the idea that people should be able to air political opinions without being afraid of the government, and actually, the whole Snowden debacle has sparked a free speech debate, because the NSA's surveillance seems to indicate that the spooks in government intelligence haven't internalized that norm.  I've been involved in some fairly even-handed disputes about it myself.

 

The speech we're having a problem with now in the US is mostly about the slow process of recognizing that non-WASPs matter.  Women, racial/ethnic minority people, gay people, and so forth have an ever-increasing obvious presence in American culture and communication, and a rather more slowly increasing hold on positions of power and influence.  This wasn't an issue in the US fifty or sixty years ago, because those people officially (and wrongly) didn't matter in the very narrow national political consciousness.  Now, of course, we're becoming more liberal on that front, at the same time as the avenues for communication, particularly anonymous communication, expand rapidly.  So the arseholes who have always been around feel simultaneously more threatened by the changing social milieu, and empowered to be despicably vocal about it.  Conversely, on the other side of things we have people who are so concerned about defending one liberal value (tolerance) as to hammer another critical liberal value (freedom of expression) into the ground.

 

So that's a swirling maelstrom of hate and misplaced principle, and that's what produces the free speech news out of the US.

[Gfted1]

Oh yeah, now I remember that picture.

 

@Gromnir: No, it doesn't matter to me. And for the record, I look like a Greek god.

[BruceVC]

our sister went to Berkeley after we did. she lived at the "roachdale" co-op and had seven roommates, all of whom were lesbian. our sister were one o' those statistics-- she were assaulted coming home from the library one night. so, we started visiting her almost every weekend... you know, 'cause that is what brothers do when they can't do anything useful. anyway we got to spend loads o' time with her new friends. hanging out with a bunch o' lesbians almost every weekend for a couple years, and routinely kicking their arses in basketball, were the closest we has ever come to being female.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

That's a good story, nice one

[Malcador]

 

 

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

So you're okay with the state tossing people into jail for hurting people's feelings ?

 

 

To be honest I don't think anyone has actually been jailed in South Africa for offensive comments but people have definitely been fired. We do take it seriously but funny enough the UK has prosecuted more people with real jail time. I think the consideration around jail time depends on what you say?

 

 

But you are supportive of prosecutions of people for "offensive" and derogatory comments.  Alrighty.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Are you dissecting BVC's inquisitor complex now?

[Hurlshort]

I'll respond with the following disclaimer:  I am not a typical female gamer on many levels.  I've been tossed from the Ladies Club on more than one occasion for not 'toeing the party line', and I'm married with a grown child.

 

Indira brought up a good point a few pages back.  In the PoE section of the forum, a great deal of the discussion is centered around game mechanics.  I know little about them, so I tend to just read those sections for the most part.  It's interesting to learn more about them, but they'll never be a subject of great interest for me. 

 

This section of the forum is populated mostly with members who have been here for many years.  From an outsiders point of view, you appear very much like a family, including the typical family squabbles.  I'm pretty shy, so posting in this section feels like I'm interfering in someone else's family. 

 

As far as females/males being given special accommodations, as a general rule, I think that's wrong.  Of course, there will always be exceptions to every rule.  

 

I don't play MMO's, MP type of games so I've never been subjected to that kind of behavior in a forum.   I haven't been as lucky in real life, though. 

 

Just my 2 cents so you can return to your 'freedom of speech' discussion.  (Where the heck are the other females?)

 

Hah, I did say earlier that we just talk about really geeky stuff and that is girls stay away from here.  

[Whitefox789]

 

I think we are all aware of your distaste for freedom Bruce.

 

No, no, no that's completely wrong. I believe in freedom absolutely but not if that freedom means it offends or hurts someone else

 

Sorry to say but there can be no freedom like that, you give people too much freedom you'll see peoples true colors. It goes a little something like this in my mind,

 

Law - Limited Freedom, Standard Protection from Others

Chaos - Absolute Freedom, No Protection from Others; Survival of the Fittest 

[Orogun01]

Sorry to say but there can be no freedom like that, you give people too much freedom you'll see peoples true colors. It goes a little something like this in my mind,

 

Law - Limited Freedom, Standard Protection from Others

Chaos - Absolute Freedom, No Protection from Others; Survival of the Fittest

Rational - Best of both worlds.

[Gromnir]

 

 

I think we are all aware of your distaste for freedom Bruce.

 

No, no, no that's completely wrong. I believe in freedom absolutely but not if that freedom means it offends or hurts someone else

 

Sorry to say but there can be no freedom like that, you give people too much freedom you'll see peoples true colors. It goes a little something like this in my mind,

 

Law - Limited Freedom, Standard Protection from Others

Chaos - Absolute Freedom, No Protection from Others; Survival of the Fittest 

 

well, if we all lived in Melniboné, that would be perfectly reasonable.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

So you're okay with the state tossing people into jail for hurting people's feelings ?

 

 

To be honest I don't think anyone has actually been jailed in South Africa for offensive comments but people have definitely been fired. We do take it seriously but funny enough the UK has prosecuted more people with real jail time. I think the consideration around jail time depends on what you say?

 

 

But you are supportive of prosecutions of people for "offensive" and derogatory comments.  Alrighty.

 

 

I meant to comment earlier on this but I got side tracked. I don't think you should necessarily go to jail for offensive comments but it does depend on the circumstances.

 

For example in the South African context we still have issues of racism. This is an example that really happened. About 18 months ago a black women took her two kids to a rugby game. At the end of the game when she was leaving  a group of drunken white men surrounded her when she was leaving and started verbally insulting her in front of her children. They threw beer at her and used several racist slurs. But they didn't actually hurt her but they utterly humiliated her and her children and they were all understandably distraught and in tears

 

Now why should be people like that not go to jail? What rights do they deserve?

[Calax]

 

 

 

 

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

So you're okay with the state tossing people into jail for hurting people's feelings ?

 

 

To be honest I don't think anyone has actually been jailed in South Africa for offensive comments but people have definitely been fired. We do take it seriously but funny enough the UK has prosecuted more people with real jail time. I think the consideration around jail time depends on what you say?

 

 

But you are supportive of prosecutions of people for "offensive" and derogatory comments.  Alrighty.

 

 

I meant to comment earlier on this but I got side tracked. I don't think you should necessarily go to jail for offensive comments but it does depend on the circumstances.

 

For example in the South African context we still have issues of racism. This is an example that really happened. About 18 months ago a black women took her two kids to a rugby game. At the end of the game when she was leaving  a group of drunken white men surrounded her when she was leaving and started verbally insulting her in front of her children. They threw beer at her and used several racist slurs. But they didn't actually hurt her but they utterly humiliated her and her children and they were all understandably distraught and in tears

 

Now why should be people like that not go to jail? What rights do they deserve?

 

So....

You're saying South Africa has the same issues as the United States?

Where we have a case on the books about ensuring that even the KKK gets the free right to hold a rally in the middle of a Jewish neighborhood in Illinois?

[Gfted1]

That's called Battery and its already a crime (in the US).

[Malcador]

I meant to comment earlier on this but I got side tracked. I don't think you should necessarily go to jail for offensive comments but it does depend on the circumstances.

 

For example in the South African context we still have issues of racism. This is an example that really happened. About 18 months ago a black women took her two kids to a rugby game. At the end of the game when she was leaving  a group of drunken white men surrounded her when she was leaving and started verbally insulting her in front of her children. They threw beer at her and used several racist slurs. But they didn't actually hurt her but they utterly humiliated her and her children and they were all understandably distraught and in tears

 

Now why should be people like that not go to jail? What rights do they deserve?

Well, in that case that's intimidation really. If they were across the parking lot yelling crap at her that'd be awful but nothing for the cops to get involved with. Also, really "What rights to they deserve" ? Expect that kind of thing from some right winger.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

So you're okay with the state tossing people into jail for hurting people's feelings ?

 

 

To be honest I don't think anyone has actually been jailed in South Africa for offensive comments but people have definitely been fired. We do take it seriously but funny enough the UK has prosecuted more people with real jail time. I think the consideration around jail time depends on what you say?

 

 

But you are supportive of prosecutions of people for "offensive" and derogatory comments.  Alrighty.

 

 

I meant to comment earlier on this but I got side tracked. I don't think you should necessarily go to jail for offensive comments but it does depend on the circumstances.

 

For example in the South African context we still have issues of racism. This is an example that really happened. About 18 months ago a black women took her two kids to a rugby game. At the end of the game when she was leaving  a group of drunken white men surrounded her when she was leaving and started verbally insulting her in front of her children. They threw beer at her and used several racist slurs. But they didn't actually hurt her but they utterly humiliated her and her children and they were all understandably distraught and in tears

 

Now why should be people like that not go to jail? What rights do they deserve?

 

So....

You're saying South Africa has the same issues as the United States?

Where we have a case on the books about ensuring that even the KKK gets the free right to hold a rally in the middle of a Jewish neighborhood in Illinois?

 

 

You see in the South African context you could probably try to arrange something like that but you need to apply for the right to protest or march. And the courts would prudently deny that type of rally as it would be considered provocative

[Volourn]

**** pic in the email/private message? You think only women get those? L0LZ I get those  once and awhile too, and I'm male and hetereosexual.  You know what i do/ I erase it, and move on. I'm certainly not scarred for life.

 

But, then again, i'm not a weak woman who needs protection from  the evilist, disgusting,  not worthy of being called human - the human male.

 

Eww.. Filthy things. let's avoid them whenever we can.

 

\Why do people not value themselves?

 

'Rape culture'. L0LZ All men are rapists. HAHAHA!

 

\*reads a story where a woman cut off a man's ****,  another storywhere a woman murder nearly 10 of her babies.* But, men are the bad guys?

 

of course,. there are bad men. And, good men. And, good women. And, bad women.

 

It's not news.

 

Stop treating women like they are little babies that need to be cuddled.

 

Stop treating men like they are the plague who only think of raping women and are simply monsters.

 

\It's disrespectful to both genders.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Volourn

[Gromnir]

who says they wouldn't get punished in the US?  they would not get punished for the racial slurs... though there is weird enhancement laws that is a bit odd and would take much time and effort to explain... and seeing as how the Court seems confused by such enhancements, am not sure we would be helping.

 

anywho...

 

words alone are not enough... in most situations. you got more than that above.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

**** pic in the email/private emssage/ You think only women get those? L0LZ I get those  once and awhile too, and I'm male and hetereosexual.  You know what i do/ I erase it, and move on. I'm certainly not scarred for life.

[Oner]

But, that just reveals the pointlessness of gender over the internet for regular folks. It doesn't exist until someone starts throwing a fit.

Someone once complained at me how I should be ...ashamed was the word he used I think? Or something like that... because I *gasp* had a female character in Lineage 2 despite being a guy!

It didn't bother him that he played a dark elf despite being human himself. About 6 years passed since then and I still find it funny.

I guess maybe he was just trying to provoke me, but still. The irony!

[GhostofAnakin]

**** pic in the email/private message? You think only women get those? L0LZ I get those  once and awhile too, and I'm male and hetereosexual.  You know what i do/ I erase it, and move on. I'm certainly not scarred for life.

 

But, then again, i'm not a weak woman who needs protection from  the evilist, disgusting,  not worthy of being called human - the human male.

 

Eww.. Filthy things. let's avoid them whenever we can.

 

\Why do people not value themselves?

 

'Rape culture'. L0LZ All men are rapists. HAHAHA!

 

\*reads a story where a woman cut off a man's ****,  another storywhere a woman murder nearly 10 of her babies.* But, men are the bad guys?

 

of course,. there are bad men. And, good men. And, good women. And, bad women.

 

It's not news.

 

Stop treating women like they are little babies that need to be cuddled.

 

Stop treating men like they are the plague who only think of raping women and are simply monsters.

 

\It's disrespectful to both genders.

 

I think the word you're going for is "coddled".  Otherwise, that's just creepy.

[Volourn]

It works either way considering the subject matter!

[HoonDing]

I found adventure game and arrpeegee communities are very female friendly. MMOs simply attract the worst of humanity.

[Hurlshort]

I'd say shooters attract worse folks than MMO's.  It's also fairly easy to disable the general chat in most MMO's, which is where most of the garbage happens.  You don't really miss much by doing so.

[Drowsy Emperor]

The Call of Duty/Battlefield crowd makes everyone else look good.

 

In my short stint in World of Warcraft, Age of Conan and Guild Wars I didn't find all that much human interaction. I met one nice guy that was quitting WoW and he gave me some nice stuff out of sheer altruism. So all in all, the people were okay - the problem was with the games themselves.

 

Age of Conan probably had the most wasted potential of any game ever.

 

Playing Skyrim the other day it occurred to me how cool a sandbox game set in Hyboria would be. Preferably made by the same artists who did AoC, with better combat than in ES but otherwise similar in structure.