Update #77: Art in Alpha

[C2B]

Wait, how did we get from female scale armore to the assumption that every armor in the game has boobs back in?

[JadedWolf]

Wait, how did we get from female scale armore to the assumption that every armor in the game has boobs back in?

 

We can't know if every armor in the game has a specific design for females, but we know for sure scale armor does. And the case can certainly be made that there is no practical reason for it

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62316-armour-weapon-designs-a-plea-part-iii/?p=1339680

 

But like I said, I'm personally fine with it, if it is for gameplay reasons. I'm just a bit puzzled with people who are trying to say there are practical reasons why they would look different.

 

I've been trying to look where I read that it was for gameplay reasons, but thinking a bit more on it I think it was actually in another heated forum discussion on the subject, and I don't remember which thread. It might not even exist anymore.

[Mor]

Seriously though, Maybe they use different scales/materials/techniques, and maybe females wear the armor commonly enough that they actually take the time to make "tailored" armor.

 

It's not like it's MMO fantasy sex armor, accentuating the female form, showing a bunch of cleavage and skin and serving as a push-up bra. It's barely shaped like there's more chest mass than a dude's armor.

 

[...]

 

I understand why people desire it to be exactly historically accurate and/or "realistic," but I don't understand why such a subtle thing is generating something close to outrage. As if this is just purely unacceptable, and Obsidian has insulted your entire family lineage and challenged you to a duel.

I don't know about outrage, more like few enthusiasts correcting common misconceptions in regard to realism and historical accuracy, that got little carried away forgetting that its a game and what the devs want to achieve.

 

Bottom line gameplay is always > realism, this game doesn't have a very stylized athletics of certain Fantasy games, and IMO the armor form is no exception to that. So the'll just have to deal with it, special materials, tailored, magic or just crazy fashion statement ..

[rdmcnz]

I am keen on Phaen's Robe of Rags that was in Icewind Dale - a wizard's robe.

In England the Morris sides sometimes use a coat of rags of different colours - which look great as the dancer moves and jumps.

I think that a flamboyant non restrictive coat like that would be great for my Chanter.

It would also be great for a Green Man style Druid.

 

The ability to change the colours of the cloth could make this great (missing from Icewind Dale) though I do think more than just two colours for the coat would help.

 

I would like to point out, very clearly, that the bells would not be included. No bells. Not even one.

 

Any chance something like this could be included in PoE?

 

 

 

[rjshae]

Or gillie suits for Orlan stalkers maybe...

 

[Gromnir]

as obsidian is located in california, they is already very familiar with this kinda thing

 

 

hmmmm. doesn't seem particularly kewl, but we went to Cal, so perhaps we is prejudiced.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[anothername]

 

The armors... they do look fine but... kind of very down to earth for such a high fantasy game.

 

... and many backers, including me, are relieved that they look down to earth, with no Blood Bowl spikeball pauldrons and Final Fantasy surfboard swords (which are fine in their own game!). Arms- and armorwise they were shooting for midcore-realistic looks, and they're delivering on that.

 

 

Ewww... no need to go nuclear in the extreme opposite direction. I meant more along the lines of:

 

Elmore and Caldwell. Mmm...

 

The old masters of western fantasy artwork

 

A healthy mix of down to eath, fancy, slighty overboard and; yes, some may hate it but others love it, with the occasional sex appeal. Some of this really weird eastern stuff (or comic like WoW stuff), which I agree is fine in the respective games, would really not be something I would looking forward to see in PE.

Edited May 2, 2014 by anothername

[J.E. Sawyer]

If I understand what they said in the updates correctly, the only reason there is "boob armor" is because the Obsidian guys want the player to be able to see in a glance if a character is male or female, so that it would be easier to see who is who.

 

While I agree that there is no real practical reason why female and male armor would look different, any discussion about it seems moot when the actual reasons for it are not aesthetic but gameplay related.

 

Yes.  I don't think we've ever said anything like "We will make our male and female armor sets look identical."  It is not historically accurate for plate and scale armor to have visibly larger chest areas just as it is unrealistic for a full mail hauberk to have a narrower waist (good luck putting it on).  Especially with our armor types that have high metal (or leather) content, the cloth areas are very small which means that the player-tintable areas are very small.  It is easy to confuse characters if they don't have some distinguishing features.

 

That said, I do believe that there is value in turning the dial to 11 with simulative/historical stuff if you do it consistently.  PoE makes a lot of concessions for gameplay concerns in the rules, in the UI, and in how the outfits, armor, and weapons are designed.  They aren't capital-W Warhammer-style, but our warhammer heads are larger than is realistic, our great sword blades are extra thick to help distinguish them from estocs, our pikes are shorter than historical pikes because full-length pikes get weird with character positioning and attacks, etc.

[SqueakyCat]

As a female gamer, I find nothing offensive regarding the depicted armor.  If it helps people distinguish their party members, that's fine.  Not everyone has great vision, and the characters are quite small in these games. 

 

I just fail to understand all the outrage over such a minor detail.  I guess it's a 'realism' issue (in a fantasy game). 

[Solviulnir the Soulbinder]

Speaking of UI, have you guys decided yet which way will you go with the layout?
IWD- or BG-like? Or will it be customizable so we could choose either.

edit - typo

Edited May 2, 2014 by Solviulnir the Soulbinder

[Mihura]

I am keen on Phaen's Robe of Rags that was in Icewind Dale - a wizard's robe.

In England the Morris sides sometimes use a coat of rags of different colours - which look great as the dancer moves and jumps.

I think that a flamboyant non restrictive coat like that would be great for my Chanter.

It would also be great for a Green Man style Druid.

 

The ability to change the colours of the cloth could make this great (missing from Icewind Dale) though I do think more than just two colours for the coat would help.

 

I would like to point out, very clearly, that the bells would not be included. No bells. Not even one.

 

Any chance something like this could be included in PoE?

 

 

 

 

You mean a careto?

 

 

As for the armors well to bad than. I just hope the plate version stays that way. At lest we have the options to choose certain armors without boob plate, right?

Edited May 2, 2014 by Mihura

[rjshae]

Are we near a bridge? We must be.

[Lephys]

^^ Those outfits would be pretty cool for Chanters and dancer/theatrical-type characters. That last shot, with the masks, is interesting. I like those masks, .

 

That said, you'd definitely have to adjust the colors a bit for stealth purposes, haha. But, seeing as how it's a game, and we can already tint our cloth Chevy Orange *most likely* and not have stealth mechanically effected, it would be an acceptable abstraction, I suppose.

 

Also, this type of attire brings to mind Thom Merrilin's patchwork-of-colors gleeman's cloak from The Wheel of Time saga.

[Sarex]

Also, this type of attire brings to mind Thom Merrilin's patchwork-of-colors gleeman's cloak from The Wheel of Time saga.

 

I always imagined his cloak like a bunch of different colored squares stitched together.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Sarex

[Lephys]

 

^ Me too. I didn't mean to suggest I imagined it looking like the above images. The posted images simply made me think of, essentially, badass characters who also were quite theatrical and dressed in a colorful/flourishy manner, which made me think of Thom Merrilin and his cloak.

 

Of course, I know he didn't usually wear it around when trying to hide from adversaries and/or combat things, but... still. I think he did technically fight with a couple of times throughout those stories, whenever there was fighting to do in the middle of a tavern/his-gleemanry. That, and the whole "it's a video game, and we like our aesthetic choices, even though they wouldn't be practical and such" thing. Like with dye colors and stealth, or invisible helmets.

 

TL;DR... Thom Merrilin rocks, and now I want a Gleeman Rogue.

[IndiraLightfoot]

As a female gamer, I find nothing offensive regarding the depicted armor.  If it helps people distinguish their party members, that's fine.  Not everyone has great vision, and the characters are quite small in these games. 

 

I just fail to understand all the outrage over such a minor detail.  I guess it's a 'realism' issue (in a fantasy game). 

I know. And we're already getting reasonably realistic armours and weapons, so if they differ slightly gender-wise, or if they are a bit exaggerated for greater visibility, I think that's just as fine as if they didn't. It's nothing to get worked up about. It is indeed a fantasy game.

[Gromnir]

 

As a female gamer, I find nothing offensive regarding the depicted armor.  If it helps people distinguish their party members, that's fine.  Not everyone has great vision, and the characters are quite small in these games. 

 

I just fail to understand all the outrage over such a minor detail.  I guess it's a 'realism' issue (in a fantasy game). 

I know. And we're already getting reasonably realistic armours and weapons, so if they differ slightly gender-wise, or if they are a bit exaggerated for greater visibility, I think that's just as fine as if they didn't. It's nothing to get worked up about. It is indeed a fantasy game.

 

the "helps distinguish" reasoning is utterly ridiculous. honest. am surprised that gets mentioned. chances are we gots many visual cues beyond visible bosoms to distinguish characters in our party.  didn't obsidian remove b00b plate?  oh lordy, how will Gromnir be able to distinguish characters now that female bosoms is hidden by unisex plate? well, chances are we got characters with different kits/gear. is unlikely that we got folks with same weapon, helms, and other visible gear. we played bgee a few weeks ago, and you know what, even with low detail avatars, distinguish were simple 'cause o' weapon choices, race choices, and the fact that we could choose the color of the glowing circle that appears direct under each character.  am thinking obsidian can do at least as good a job as the bioware/beamdog guys has done to help us distinguish.  also, b00b armour does nothing to help us distinguish MALE characters from each other when they is wearing same/similar gear. b00b armour gots an extreme limited use for distinguishing women from men wearing exact same kits. as obsidian has already removed b00b plate, is unlikely they deemed this questionable benefit to be essential. nevertheless, they is willing to use the "distinguishing" attribute to validate swollen b00b scale and chain. is... well, kinda insulting. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[SqueakyCat]

Gromnir, I've always enjoyed reading your posts because they usually make me smile.  This is no exception.

 

I have to ask, though, why all the boob hate?  Did they become 'dirty little pillows' again while I looked away?    

 

I'm guessing it's the lack of realism and the fact they were significantly hidden with the plate, but not the scale.

 

I was just expressing my opinion as a female since someone had asked about that in the other derailed thread.  It's simply not a big issue for me, but I can see it is for others, so I will leave you and others with a strong opinion  to the discussion.

 

It is good fun! 

[Mor]

the "helps distinguish" reasoning is utterly ridiculous. honest. am surprised that gets mentioned. chances are we gots many visual cues beyond visible bosoms to distinguish characters in our party.didn't obsidian remove b00b plate? [...]

Yes they don't use boob plate, nor do they use other ridicules things such as huge codpieces. But certain subtle visual cues are still there as for plate armor: "plate armor worn by female characters always has flared tassets and plate armor worn by male characters emphasizes pauldrons and belly bulge more"

 

Personally, I thought that Josh gave a good answer here, agreeing on the realism aspect, yet noting that realisim isn't their first concern here, and to put things into context providing several examples which are also utterly ridiculous realism wise.

 

Btw you keep says that they can distinguish party members by other means, such as color coding. Personally, i'd like to avoid such wardrobe games as much as possible and iirc many argued against bottom circles, but more importantly this not just about our party, but the whole world we are going to embark into. With a large humanoid majority, color coding ain't going to help you here, on the other hand their solution is natural feature, that would make the genders easily distinguishable/recognizable at glance, thus increase the verity of the models we will encounter during the game by ~two fold.

[Archmage Silver]

So we have confirmation that surfing wizards are in?

 

Absolutely stunning work! It's been a while since I was this excited about a game, not just RPGs, but any game.

 

Edit: Typo

Edited May 4, 2014 by Archmage Silver

[Deam]

I personally find it silly that they choose to distinguish the characters' gender rather than their role in combat, which seems more useful to me honestly.

[Hormalakh]

 

the "helps distinguish" reasoning is utterly ridiculous. honest. am surprised that gets mentioned. chances are we gots many visual cues beyond visible bosoms to distinguish characters in our party.didn't obsidian remove b00b plate? [...]

Yes they don't use boob plate, nor do they use other ridicules things such as huge codpieces. But certain subtle visual cues are still there as for plate armor: "plate armor worn by female characters always has flared tassets and plate armor worn by male characters emphasizes pauldrons and belly bulge more"

 

Personally, I thought that Josh gave a good answer here, agreeing on the realism aspect, yet noting that realisim isn't their first concern here, and to put things into context providing several examples which are also utterly ridiculous realism wise.

 

Btw you keep says that they can distinguish party members by other means, such as color coding. Personally, i'd like to avoid such wardrobe games as much as possible and iirc many argued against bottom circles, but more importantly this not just about our party, but the whole world we are going to embark into. With a large humanoid majority, color coding ain't going to help you here, on the other hand their solution is natural feature, that would make the genders easily distinguishable/recognizable at glance, thus increase the verity of the models we will encounter during the game by ~two fold.

 

 

i have to agree wtih gromnir. distinguishing based on boob or not-boob is pretty ridiculous on its own. it doesn't really have to do with realism/prudism/any other ism.

 

it's just sort of a ridiculous thing to consider. i don't know. when i think female adventurer, the first thing i think isn't boob, (i guess surprisingly).

 

honestly i don't much care about distinguishing these characters in this way. if my character has plate armor and a hammer s/he is going in the front. if i have two characters with the same gear, and one needs to fall back, i'd either use the tab button to look at the health rght above the character, or i'd click on the portrait to select the character.

 

if i were to take a "feminist" approach to this, though i think even this would be ridiculous, i'd say something like "not all women have large breasts ready for lactation! what about women with small breasts or women who cut off their breasts like the amazonians? a woman shouldn't be defined by her breast size." that'd be an argument i can see someone making, though again, it's a pretty weird one.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Hormalakh

[600lbpanther]

I am glad they included female armor as I plan on being the male leader of an all female band of mercenaries who are unruly but fair and just.

 

This inclusion of female armor, or "boob plate" as the perverts are want to insultingly refer to it as, will help distinguish me as the leader.

Does anyone know if there will be different "sized" armor?   My girl Shareena is poppin'.

[rjshae]

This entire discussion regarding a few pixels on the display is beyond ridiculous.

[Hormalakh]

well all i know is that my women characters are going to all wear pink and have bowtie helmets. they are going to carry flowers instead of swords and will defeat enemies by sleeping with them.:flameon!: