Dragon Age: Inquistion

[marelooke]

Didn't see this posted here yet.

 

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/05/06/the-return-of-varric-in-dragon-age-inquisition.aspx

Varric easily is the best companion in the Dragon Age series, I'm glad he will be back (unless they manage to mangle him beyond recognition, of course )

[Orogun01]

 

Didn't see this posted here yet.

 

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2014/05/06/the-return-of-varric-in-dragon-age-inquisition.aspx

Varric easily is the best companion in the Dragon Age series, I'm glad he will be back (unless they manage to mangle him beyond recognition, of course )

 

I dread to think that they might ruin him "a la Anders", returning characters could either be very good(if they stick to what the character is) or very bad(if they decide to try their hand at development).

[BruceVC]

 

 

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

 

 

Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage.

 

Here's a fairly detailed analysis why.

 

 

Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue

 

For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid  feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there

 

I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage.

 

Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find  the right way to implement Romance in DA:I

[Malekith]

 

 

 

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

 

 

Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage.

 

Here's a fairly detailed analysis why.

 

 

Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue

 

For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid  feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there

 

I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage.

 

Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find  the right way to implement Romance in DA:I

 

That was a quick change on opinion Bruce

 

The point you miss (and feminism does in general) is that Twilight romance was so effective among teenage girls exactly because of this portrayal. The majority of women (especialy at these ages) actualy like to have a subservient role in their relationships. This isn't only in Twilight. Read True Blood or any other similar book. Most of the time the males are dominant in most aspects of the relationship.

Or read paranormal romence or harlequin for adults. Same issue here. The males are always the dominating, badboy-playboy type that somehow is captured by the female protagonist. And then? He is loyal alright, but he is overprotective, he alwaystreats thae woman like a precious bubble and the woman is there just to support and love him(and to be resqued). 

In all of these cases is unintentional and not pushing a specific agenta. And yet they are always written for women and the target audience is women. How does this fits in your woldview Bruce?

 

A friend of mine is married with an author of such books. One time she asked him if the man's reaction in one of her novels was realistic. (and believe me, if you wanted to search for sexist undertones in that particular scene, you would go crazy Bruce) And my friend laughed and said this wasn't how a man would react, this was how a woman wants a man to react.

Food for thought.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Malekith

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've always felt the Twilight movies had "rapey" undertones, having seen only the first and last.

 

Besides, the acting is terrible.

[BruceVC]

I've always felt the Twilight movies had "rapey" undertones, having seen only the first and last.

 

Besides, the acting is terrible.

 

They do and this is discussed in aluminiumtrioxid link.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Bruce, Google the topic. I'm lucky enough to have never seen any of the Twilight movies but I've heard the abusive relationship angle about the series. I think it's unintended by the author, but lots of credible people have commented on it.

 

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

 

 

Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage.

 

Here's a fairly detailed analysis why.

 

 

Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue

 

For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid  feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there

 

I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage.

 

Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find  the right way to implement Romance in DA:I

 

That was a quick change on opinion Bruce

 

The point you miss (and feminism does in general) is that Twilight romance was so effective among teenage girls exactly because of this portrayal. The majority of women (especialy at these ages) actualy like to have a subservient role in their relationships. This isn't only in Twilight. Read True Blood or any other similar book. Most of the time the males are dominant in most aspects of the relationship.

Or read paranormal romence or harlequin for adults. Same issue here. The males are always the dominating, badboy-playboy type that somehow is captured by the female protagonist. And then? He is loyal alright, but he is overprotective, he alwaystreats thae woman like a precious bubble and the woman is there just to support and love him(and to be resqued). 

In all of these cases is unintentional and not pushing a specific agenta. And yet they are always written for women and the target audience is women. How does this fits in your woldview Bruce?

 

A friend of mine is married with an author of such books. One time she asked him if the man's reaction in one of her novels was realistic. (and believe me, if you wanted to search for sexist undertones in that particular scene, you would go crazy Bruce) And my friend laughed and said this wasn't how a man would react, this was how a woman wants a man to react.

Food for thought.

 

No I never said Twilight was a paradigm of gender equality. I said the Romance options appealed to a wide range of fans and the movies must have some value to have such support. But after reading that link the image Twilight projects is diametrically opposed to most of my views around the role of women in society so Twilights value has gone down dramatically in my books

 

Also I doubt any educated young women raised in a home where gender equality is practised  would chose to be willingly in a relationship where she has no identity and is subservient  to a man. I'm not saying that doesn't exist but its something that is fundamentally wrong in many aspects of our society

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

The point you miss (and feminism does in general) is that Twilight romance was so effective among teenage girls exactly because of this portrayal. (...) 

A friend of mine is married with an author of such books. One time she asked him if the man's reaction in one of her novels was realistic. (and believe me, if you wanted to search for sexist undertones in that particular scene, you would go crazy Bruce) And my friend laughed and said this wasn't how a man would react, this was how a woman wants a man to react.

Food for thought.

 

Good for them. Doesn't make the books any better, or, for that matter, less harmful.

 

Whether Twilight is absolute garbage or not, it might have some redeeming qualities or have "an interesting element". It's those aspects you can't comment on without having fully familiarised yourself with the product, even if you have gathered enough data to dismiss the whole of it as garbage.

 

I was blackmailed into reading all four books. I have familiarised myself with it enough, I think. *shudders*

[Endrosz]

I was blackmailed into reading all four books. I have familiarised myself with it enough, I think. *shudders*

Blackmailed? Here, have some wubwub as consolation:  :wub:

[Amentep]

I remember back in the day when I went to a con that was centered on fantasy stuff (comics, books, movies, tv, etc) and walking with a female friend through an isle and realizing that it was full of old porn mags for sale. Thought it was odd and the friend just shrugged and said "I guess it is a kind of fantasy..."

 

Years later two female co-workers and I were talking about what we liked to read; one thing they had in common (which I didn't) was they liked to read romance novels. One of them quipped "its a fantasy - its the one way you'll see a guy actually acting right in a relationship".

 

I'd imagine that the reason people like the Twilight books is because - regardless of the elements of "abuse" or "stalker" or "hurt/comfort" - there's something in the fantasy of the relationship that appeals. Maybe its not a mature appeal, maybe it is teen angst romantic appeal or something, not sure I'm in a position to analyze it other than recognizing it must exist.

 

And to be vaguely on-topic its something that must exist with Bioware romances too.

[tajerio]

Whether Twilight is absolute garbage or not, it might have some redeeming qualities or have "an interesting element". It's those aspects you can't comment on without having fully familiarised yourself with the product, even if you have gathered enough data to dismiss the whole of it as garbage.

 

I was blackmailed into reading all four books. I have familiarised myself with it enough, I think. *shudders*

 

 

I read the first one out of a desire to figure out what the hell was going on.  Then I read the next three, because there was only about a quarter book's worth of plot in there, and I have a compulsive need to know what happens once I start a series, even if I don't really enjoy it.  I would never have finished the Wheel of Time or Act III of DA2 otherwise.

[Monte Carlo]

 

I'd imagine that the reason people like the Twilight books is because - regardless of the elements of "abuse" or "stalker" or "hurt/comfort" - there's something in the fantasy of the relationship that appeals. Maybe its not a mature appeal, maybe it is teen angst romantic appeal or something, not sure I'm in a position to analyze it other than recognizing it must exist.

 

 

 

Actually, 'Tep, vampire stories have always had a sexual element to them. Dammit, Dracula is a love story, unrequited to boot. I've read cultural critiques of vampire fiction, from Anne Rice's Vampire Lestadt to True Blood as analogues for AIDS, BDSM and all everything else inbetween. Dammit, if Christian Grey had fangs then Fifty Shades might have caused the World To Explode.

 

So Twilight, if you want to look at it's subtext as piece of stunningly successful popular culture, actually subverts what was traditionally a dark, adult trope (forbidden, dangerous, otherworldly lover) and dumps it smack-bang in the middle of young adult literature. You can't ignore that cultural baggage.

 

I'm not suggesting the author intended to do anything other than write powerful YA fiction, but you need to know the clay from which you intend to fashion something better than she did.

[BruceVC]

I remember back in the day when I went to a con that was centered on fantasy stuff (comics, books, movies, tv, etc) and walking with a female friend through an isle and realizing that it was full of old porn mags for sale. Thought it was odd and the friend just shrugged and said "I guess it is a kind of fantasy..."

 

Years later two female co-workers and I were talking about what we liked to read; one thing they had in common (which I didn't) was they liked to read romance novels. One of them quipped "its a fantasy - its the one way you'll see a guy actually acting right in a relationship".

 

I'd imagine that the reason people like the Twilight books is because - regardless of the elements of "abuse" or "stalker" or "hurt/comfort" - there's something in the fantasy of the relationship that appeals. Maybe its not a mature appeal, maybe it is teen angst romantic appeal or something, not sure I'm in a position to analyze it other than recognizing it must exist.

 

And to be vaguely on-topic its something that must exist with Bioware romances too.

 

Amentep I consider you an intelligent and reasonable person. Did you read that link that Aluminium posted? You should find it very interesting

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I'd imagine that the reason people like the Twilight books is because - regardless of the elements of "abuse" or "stalker" or "hurt/comfort" - there's something in the fantasy of the relationship that appeals. Maybe its not a mature appeal, maybe it is teen angst romantic appeal or something, not sure I'm in a position to analyze it other than recognizing it must exist.

 

 

Actually, 'Tep, vampire stories have always had a sexual element to them. Dammit, Dracula is a love story, unrequited to boot. I've read cultural critiques of vampire fiction, from Anne Rice's Vampire Lestadt to True Blood as analogues for AIDS, BDSM and all everything else inbetween. Dammit, if Christian Grey had fangs then Fifty Shades might have caused the World To Explode.

 

So Twilight, if you want to look at it's subtext as piece of stunningly successful popular culture, actually subverts what was traditionally a dark, adult trope (forbidden, dangerous, otherworldly lover) and dumps it smack-bang in the middle of young adult literature. You can't ignore that cultural baggage.

 

I'm not suggesting the author intended to do anything other than write powerful YA fiction, but you need to know the clay from which you intend to fashion something better than she did.

Admittedly I haven't read Dracula in a while, but can't remember the the romance angle. Will have to put that on the very long list of things to read.

 

Will agree that vampires have always had a sexual element. Vaguely recall that early incarnations were corpses come back to life to have sex with spouses

[Monte Carlo]

Dracula wants Lucy in the original novel.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I initially understood that more as hunger, but haven't read the book in a long tome. Will make a point to reread that asap.

[Amentep]

Actually, 'Tep, vampire stories have always had a sexual element to them. Dammit, Dracula is a love story, unrequited to boot. I've read cultural critiques of vampire fiction, from Anne Rice's Vampire Lestadt to True Blood as analogues for AIDS, BDSM and all everything else inbetween. Dammit, if Christian Grey had fangs then Fifty Shades might have caused the World To Explode.

 

So Twilight, if you want to look at it's subtext as piece of stunningly successful popular culture, actually subverts what was traditionally a dark, adult trope (forbidden, dangerous, otherworldly lover) and dumps it smack-bang in the middle of young adult literature. You can't ignore that cultural baggage.

 

I'm not suggesting the author intended to do anything other than write powerful YA fiction, but you need to know the clay from which you intend to fashion something better than she did.

 

Well Dracula is actually not really a love story in how it is originally.  I'd argue that it's epistolary format precludes it being seriously romantic since its events are chronicled with a certain distance within the narrative because its elements are written post-action and through multiple points of view (including newspapers!).  Also note that much of the romantic subtext in Dracula has been created outside of the novel (particularly the idea that Mina is a reincarnation of a lost love of Dracula's which first appears in the 70s, but even the 30s Dracula hints at the continental attraction of the count.  Nosferatu is probably closer to the novel in some respects than Universal's effort based on the stage-play based on the novel). My memory is that Dracula pursued Lucy as part of his pursuit of Mina which itself was borne of trying to break the things that Harker had cared for (which is, in a way, understandable of a character who is ultimately against/a perversion of life).

 

There might be merit in arguing about the STD subtext in Stoker's work, but I'm not sure I'd argue that Stoker's Dracula as it is is terribly romantic (but its also been a couple of decades since I read it).

 

Amentep I consider you an intelligent and reasonable person. Did you read that link that Aluminium posted? You should find it very interesting

Bruce, thanks for the compliment. I've read the link (as much as I care to) and read other links too. The problem, in my mind - and I say this not to dismiss the criticism - is that sometimes people are fans of things that represent "not good" as part of a catharsis.

 

In the "Nightmare on Elm Street" series, Freddy Krueger became a popular character. A pedophile serial killer given supernatural powers to continue killing kids. Like most horror, the appeal of a character is a catharsis built around boxing in unquantifiable evil (there's a reason horror stories rise in popularity in uncertain times) not an intent to say that Krueger was a "good" character or a "role model".

 

My experience with romance narratives where romance is the primary reason the story exists are limited, but - assuming my friends are right that the appeal is a kind of fantasy about relationships - I'd make an argument that the ability to experience a relationship that might be a bit unhealthy from the safe confines of a book is part of the appeal of both TWILIGHT and FIFTY SHADES OF GRAY, if not other romance novels (and of course, any of the "exploitative" genres in film, television and novels).

Edited May 8, 2014 by Amentep

[Gromnir]

 

I'd imagine that the reason people like the Twilight books is because - regardless of the elements of "abuse" or "stalker" or "hurt/comfort" - there's something in the fantasy of the relationship that appeals. Maybe its not a mature appeal, maybe it is teen angst romantic appeal or something, not sure I'm in a position to analyze it other than recognizing it must exist.

 

 

 

Actually, 'Tep, vampire stories have always had a sexual element to them. Dammit, Dracula is a love story, unrequited to boot. I've read cultural critiques of vampire fiction, from Anne Rice's Vampire Lestadt to True Blood as analogues for AIDS, BDSM and all everything else inbetween. Dammit, if Christian Grey had fangs then Fifty Shades might have caused the World To Explode.

 

So Twilight, if you want to look at it's subtext as piece of stunningly successful popular culture, actually subverts what was traditionally a dark, adult trope (forbidden, dangerous, otherworldly lover) and dumps it smack-bang in the middle of young adult literature. You can't ignore that cultural baggage.

 

I'm not suggesting the author intended to do anything other than write powerful YA fiction, but you need to know the clay from which you intend to fashion something better than she did.

 

well, she sold lots of books, so perhaps she knew what she were doing, yes? author weren't trying to makes a mature fantasy. she were making a teen romance, so her clay were not same as bram stoker's.

 

...

 

in fact, just for sake o' argument, Gromnir is gonna assume a more nefarious bent to twilight. there is taboo subject matter for western romance. incest, rape, pedophilia and a host o' other subjects is verboten and just plain disturbing. nevertheless, there is an audience for such stuff. the thing is, if you does a teen romance wherein the female protagonist literally throws self off a cliff to get the attention o' a creepy, stalker, daddy figure... and the male romantic interest is a fifty-year old music teacher from hoboken, you is gonna have parents justifiably concerned. even if the teen girls can see the "beauty" o' such a forbidden love, the rest o' us is gonna recognize that the fantasy is freaking twisted. but guess what, author makes protagonist a vampire and everybody is ok with it... 'cause... 

 

*shrug*

 

don't ask us why it is ok, 'cause it is distressing and wrong in our eyes.  regardless, by using vampires, the author can inject superpowers and magic into the romance, as well as exploring taboo subject matter. the author, if she were sinister and calculating, were perhaps fully cognizant o' exactly what she were doing... which makes all o' this even more freaking disturbing... and that much more o' a reason dave's fascination with the effectiveness o' twilight romance should concern folks. no, am not saying dave should be insulted, but when dave lauds effectiveness o' twilight, somebody Should voice concerns. somebody Should point out that twilight works precisely 'cause immature readers don't realize how creepy and misguided it is.  somebody Should caution dave against using what made twilight effective at selling romance to 14-year old girls and cellar-dwellers to sell bioware romance.

 

somebody should... not Gromnir though 'cause as long as bio romance is tangential and optional, we is satisfied that such stuff won't ever be part o' our gaming experience. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps is actual sad that so many folks don't know real dracula. it were, first and foremost, a gothic Romance. 

 

pps what is double-confusing to Gromnir is that the only likable and sympathetic characters from the movie were the human adults. for chrissakes, how does a kid with such likeable parents turn out so freaking wrong? if everybody had such understanding and supportive parents, am betting that 50 years ago we woulda' seen a cure for cancer and we would all be driving "cars" that fly and run on seawater.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Gromnir

[sorophx]

you just can't appeal to teen girls with good literature. 

You have just informed me that I should never listen to your opinion. Good to know.

not that I care, but you probably misread that post. again, language barrier. 

 

unless you think teen girls possess the ability to tell well-written language constructs from bad, good dialogue from bad, a firm grasp of language (all pretty hard to do at their age, since they don't know their own language good enough to detect bad writing)

[Endrosz]

Bruce, thanks for the compliment. I've read the link (as much as I care to) and read other links too. The problem, in my mind - and I say this not to dismiss the criticism - is that sometimes people are fans of things that represent "not good" as part of a catharsis.

 

In the "Nightmare on Elm Street" series, Freddy Krueger became a popular character. A pedophile serial killer given supernatural powers to continue killing kids. Like most horror, the appeal of a character is a catharsis built around boxing in unquantifiable evil (there's a reason horror stories rise in popularity in uncertain times) not an intent to say that Krueger was a "good" character or a "role model".

1. It is a young adult novel with no age restriction. The Krueger movies are adult horror movies. Big difference.

 

2. I don't think that any argument can be made that Krueger serves as a point of identification for the viewer. We're outside of him, never think of being friends with him and sharing a table on a Friday night. Bella, on the other hand, is the protagonist, and the narrative is even told from a first person POV. When she is portrayed as powerless and dependent on men (the essay aluminiumtrioxid linked highlights this in detail), the reader is drawn into that.

 

Yes, those stalker/abuse/etc. undertones DO matter a lot in light of these facts. I've never read the books, but I've seen the first movie (which is, I am told, pretty faithful to the book), and it creeped ME out. And I'm an adult guy, who simply values relationships based on mutual trust and respect, not a teenage girl filled with uncertainty and low self-esteem.

 

My experience with romance narratives where romance is the primary reason the story exists are limited, but - assuming my friends are right that the appeal is a kind of fantasy about relationships - I'd make an argument that the ability to experience a relationship that might be a bit unhealthy from the safe confines of a book is part of the appeal of both TWILIGHT and FIFTY SHADES OF GRAY, if not other romance novels (and of course, any of the "exploitative" genres in film, television and novels).

Again, this is fine, I have nothing to say against Fifty Shades of Grey as a novel for adults.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Endrosz

[Amentep]

 

Bruce, thanks for the compliment. I've read the link (as much as I care to) and read other links too. The problem, in my mind - and I say this not to dismiss the criticism - is that sometimes people are fans of things that represent "not good" as part of a catharsis.

 

In the "Nightmare on Elm Street" series, Freddy Krueger became a popular character. A pedophile serial killer given supernatural powers to continue killing kids. Like most horror, the appeal of a character is a catharsis built around boxing in unquantifiable evil (there's a reason horror stories rise in popularity in uncertain times) not an intent to say that Krueger was a "good" character or a "role model".

1. It is a young adult novel with no age restriction. The Krueger movies are adult horror movies. Big difference.

 

Adult horror movies that I and pretty much everyone in my high school saw as teens. 

 

2. I don't think that any argument can be made that Krueger serves as a point of identification for the viewer. We're outside of him, never think of being friends with him and sharing a table on a Friday night. Bella, on the other hand, is the protagonist, and the narrative is even told from a first person POV. When she is portrayed as powerless and dependent on men (the essay aluminiumtrioxid linked highlights this in detail), the reader is drawn into that.

After the first movie, Krueger is the point of identification because he's the only returning character. He's not the protaganist, but he's certainly the identifiable presence. People didn't buy products because pictures of Nancy or Don Thompson were plastered on them, after all.

 

Yes, those stalker/abuse/etc. undertones DO matter a lot in light of these facts. I've never read the books, but I've seen the first movie (which is, I am told, pretty faithful to the book), and it creeped ME out. And I'm an adult guy, who simply values relationships based on mutual trust and respect, not a teenage girl filled with uncertainty and low self-esteem.

And again, the reader (or viewer) is able to - if they choose - explore that relationship without having to ever be *in* that relationship, which again speaks to the potential that the appeal of the story is - at least to some degree - cathartic in nature, just as Fifty Shades allows people to explore BDSM from the comfort of their own living room wearing comfy shoes.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Amentep

[Endrosz]

To be cathartic, you need character development and catharsis. Somebody, usually the protagonist, needs to change profoundly. At the end of Crime and Punishment, the protagonist serves up his prison sentence for his previous bad deed, while the "good" girl is waiting for him, and they get together after he's released. He's not the same man that we came to know at the start of the novel, abandoned his old ways, so the ending gives catharsis, release, promise, hope.

 

In the Twilight books the heroine never really improves upon her submissive, "all is doomed, I is doomed" stance. She's endlessly pining after a guy who wants, at the same time, consume her and "protect" her. And then she becomes a vampire to be forever with him, even relocating to a new town, shedding everything that mattered to her before. It that romantic? Sure. Is that cathartic? Nope, there's ZERO character development, so there's no release, no insight, no learning, no brighter future. Their relationship works with the same underpinnings as in the first novel.

 

A cathartic ending to Twilight would look something like this:

 

-- Whoa, I'm growing up to be a woman, my horizon broadens [all good YA novels have this angle], and that includes my view of men and relationships. Why do I still run after this creepy dude? As much as it pains me, since you can't just command emotions to stop, this relationship must end, or otherwise it'll destroy me from inside out. Bye-bye Edward! Later on, I'll find a dude who's not so possessive, obsessive, etc. I'm happy to be finally free!

[Amentep]

Not cathartic for the characters, cathartic for the readers. To sate the curiosity, to experiment in safety, etc.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Yeah if I was female and made such a gross misstep to get into a relationship with Edward a.k.a "shovelface" I'd probably tell him to meet on a beach. In summer. At noon.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[Endrosz]

Semantics. The catharsis of the character becomes the catharsis of the reader/viewer, that's the whole deal with narrative mediums.