The Case for Romance.

[Hassat Hunter]

Also, adding to above post... do you know ME2's budget. How many times 4 million was in it? 7 writers compared to how many on PoE.

 

And look, ME2 is ALL teammate. They didn't even have resources left for a main plot of any kind. Is *that* what you want. BioWare happily sacrificed *everything* for their teammates and romances, and took 2-3 years to do so. And their romances *still* sucked. And with the dialogue wheel the number of conversation options was also severly limited compared to, say, Baldur's Gate II. Obsidian however decides not to use resources that calleously.

 

Any other points we need to debunk?

 

EDIT:

Just thought of the irony here. Someone using ME2 to prove there's no sacrifice needed to add romances. Somehow glaring over the quite obvious lacking of a main storyline.

You want to imagine PoE without a MQ? Cause quite frankly, that sounds absolutely nightmare material to me...

Edited February 14, 2014 by Hassat Hunter

[Auxilius]

The romances sucked in ME2 in mroe ways than one since there was nothing beyond that in the characters.

Case in point, my hero, not being a total ****, befriends his female teammates and three of them want to get in his pants. Okay, power is a good aphrodisiac after all. The first flirty one doesn't exactly leave me a choice so I leave her for later and check the other... who don't want to speak to me anymore... because I didn't make them my official fiancee... Great. Those characters see their development suddenly stopped because I didn't give them the affection they craved for.

 

Incredible move for a party-based RPG.

 

The characters didn't need to be that shallow. And while I understand you don't have to go all in when you treat the subject, there is one thing this fiasco made me realize: once you start talking about a love relationship, it's incredibly hard to escape it, just like this forum proves sometimes. I see what Sawyer meant about those 100%. Either you do a game who treat that only, either you don't do a game. First, because you need incredibly talented writers to pull it off. Second, because no matter how talented you are, once love is in the air, people who are still there won't care about anything else. The others will leave.

 

I think people tend to forget Obsidian is a company who need to manage their PR and therefore, their own relationship with the fans. They just can't add something that could jeopardize so greatly their reputation, for the sake of the pro-romance lobby. See the good it did for Bioware that became the laughing stock of the RPG industry. And that's sad.

 

Nobody want to go down that hill anymore.

[SqueakyCat]

The Case for Romance

 

First of all let me say that this is not a whiny thread by any means. The hope here is to have intellectual discussion and not a flame war. Anyways I will be building an unbiased case over the polarizing topic of

Let’s turn to science. What sorts of hormones are secreted in the brain during “love” as well as what they do.

 

Testosterone

 

Oestrogen

 

Adrenaline

 

Dopamine

 

Serotonin

 

Oxytocin

 

Vasopressin

 

Wow.  For a moment, I thought I had been redirected to another forum where discussion of your ideas would be fiercely debated for 100+ pages (including chemical analysis of bodily secretions).  

 

Obsidian has stated there will be no romances.  There have been about 25 - 35 threads on this subject which inevitably end like this:

 

Typical Romance Thread

 

These threads started the first day of the Kickstarter back in September, 2012.   Obsidian is well aware that there is a very vocal portion of their backers who would have preferred a romance option in the game, and an equally vocal portion who absolutely cringe at the idea of romance mini-games.  That is what they are unless that are an intricate part of the story like PS:T.   Asking them to do romances is tantamount to asking them to change their vision of the story for this game.   I'm thinking the science angle just isn't going to be enough to change their minds.

 

Personally, I think Obsidian's writing capabilities to be one of their most outstanding qualities.  I have no doubt there will be great companions and character interaction.  It's what many feel is their greatest strength.

 

Hey, this party can't really get started until Merin (with his cross and posse) make an appearance.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Typical Romance Thread

 

heh. I recall that thread but I left soon after it was opened. The last couple of pages really devolved into... dafuq did I just read?  And Metiman's posts were eye openers, ending in Bird Cages. 

[AGX-17]

 

The Case for Romance

 

First of all let me say that this is not a whiny thread by any means. The hope here is to have intellectual discussion and not a flame war. Anyways I will be building an unbiased case over the polarizing topic of

Let’s turn to science. What sorts of hormones are secreted in the brain during “love” as well as what they do.

 

Testosterone

 

Oestrogen

 

Adrenaline

 

Dopamine

 

Serotonin

 

Oxytocin

 

Vasopressin

 

Wow.  For a moment, I thought I had been redirected to another forum where discussion of your ideas would be fiercely debated for 100+ pages (including chemical analysis of bodily secretions).  

 

Obsidian has stated there will be no romances.  There have been about 25 - 35 threads on this subject which inevitably end like this:

 

Typical Romance Thread

 

These threads started the first day of the Kickstarter back in September, 2012.   Obsidian is well aware that there is a very vocal portion of their backers who would have preferred a romance option in the game, and an equally vocal portion who absolutely cringe at the idea of romance mini-games.  That is what they are unless that are an intricate part of the story like PS:T.   Asking them to do romances is tantamount to asking them to change their vision of the story for this game.   I'm thinking the science angle just isn't going to be enough to change their minds.

 

Personally, I think Obsidian's writing capabilities to be one of their most outstanding qualities.  I have no doubt there will be great companions and character interaction.  It's what many feel is their greatest strength.

 

Hey, this party can't really get started until Merin (with his cross and posse) make an appearance.

 

Nobody's made a "what would Cadegund's sweat smell like? I HAVE SCIENTICIANALLY CALCUMALATED THE ANSWER!" thread yet.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Typical Romance Thread

 

Oh my god I remember that one!  In fact my response is on that page!  Ah that thread got to levels of disturbance even the Sith would have been horrified, good times.

[Silent Winter]

completely off topic but:

And... Science is useless in gameplay development... it's all about... Finance

'Scinance' <- sounded cool in my head

'Fience' <-sounded less cool, but is closer to fiance, which brings us back to romance...

 

*and the thread continued smoothly, despite the interruption*

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

Typical Romance Thread

 

heh. I recall that thread but I left soon after it was opened. The last couple of pages really devolved into... dafuq did I just read?  And Metiman's posts were eye openers, ending in Bird Cages. 

 

 

I won that thread, too.

[Monte Carlo]

Hey, I just thought of something! I want a really crunchy strategic trading / overland map dynamic just like SoZ.

 

Loads of us like strategy, it doesn't matter if it wasn't really part of the initial KS pitch... and hey how much work can it be! Screw the plot and extraneous content like that... I want to see little wagons full of wood and iron rumbling around the map so I can upgrade my castle and trading posts.

 

If you tell me I can't have it I'll spend thousands of words arguing how important it is to my immersion and how resource overlays and strategy have added so much to other games. Rome Total War was, er, an RPG because I say so and in my head I really need to be an Imperator of Rome!

 

Resource and trading overlay. Won't take much by way of resources and, hey, I know you game devs work for peanuts and pull stuff like that from behind the sofa...

 

I want a resource overlay. Now.

 

Guess where you can swap that out for the 'R' word?

[Silent Winter]

Guess where you can swap that out for the 'R' word?

Strategic?

I want a really crunchy romance map dynamic!

or map?

I want a really crunchy strategic overland romance dynamic!

[FlintlockJazz]

Hey, I just thought of something! I want a really crunchy strategic trading / overland map dynamic just like SoZ.

 

Loads of us like strategy, it doesn't matter if it wasn't really part of the initial KS pitch... and hey how much work can it be! Screw the plot and extraneous content like that... I want to see little wagons full of wood and iron rumbling around the map so I can upgrade my castle and trading posts.

 

If you tell me I can't have it I'll spend thousands of words arguing how important it is to my immersion and how resource overlays and strategy have added so much to other games. Rome Total War was, er, an RPG because I say so and in my head I really need to be an Imperator of Rome!

 

Resource and trading overlay. Won't take much by way of resources and, hey, I know you game devs work for peanuts and pull stuff like that from behind the sofa...

 

I want a resource overlay. Now.

 

Guess where you can swap that out for the 'R' word?

I know you're joking, but bloody hell the idea of an party RPG mixed with overlording actually gets me excited! :D  The only thing you could get me even more excited with is if you started talking about mixing party RPGs with Sid Meier's Pirates!

[Monte Carlo]

I'm only half-joking, Flintlock. SoZ did have it. Was fun.

 

Wouldn't work in PoE but it would be a groovy RPG. Elements of JA2, perhaps. But, like romances, not everyone's cup of tea.

[NanoPaladin]

For those craving Romance -now- check out Agarest on Steam. Its a decent srpg with romance and what not inlaid into it.... think Final Fantasy Tactics with a dating sim in it haha.

 

I think its 15.99.

 

 

 

I'm only half-joking, Flintlock. SoZ did have it. Was fun.

 

Wouldn't work in PoE but it would be a groovy RPG. Elements of JA2, perhaps. But, like romances, not everyone's cup of tea.

 

They are making an Age of Wonders 3, you might like checking that out man.

[JFSOCC]

 

 

But this doesn't change the fact that Obsidian has been involved in Romance implementations in the past that the vast bulk of promancers were happy with, so is it unreasonable to ask them to do it again?

 

People who were happy with...say, the original NWN2 campaign romances must be setting their expectations really, really low. 

 

Do it right or don't it at all, I say.

 

Handmaiden wasn't terrible.

 

Visas Marr, on the other hand, made me wonder about the mental health infrastructure in a galaxy far, far away.

 

I loved visas marr, she's my favourite romance in a game, and I'm usually not someone who cares to play out romances in games.

[Endrosz]

[Karkarov]

For someone who is accusing others of nitpicking, you seem to be doing the same and taking quotes out of context. I get the impression that even if you had Obsidian do what you're asking, it still wouldn't be enough and you would find fault with them. I call it the sliding scale of explanation and butthurt. The more one explains or apologises, the other person becomes more butthurt.

You couldn't be more wrong.  I have even posted that I don't care that romances aren't in.  I just don't like the overwhelming troll attitude of those who are staunchly against romance or the over all explanation from Obsidian as to why it isn't there.  I am also tired of the constant Bioware trolling from people who clearly either never played those games or blow a tiny miniscule issues out of proportion or think that for romance to be good it has to be half the games plot apparently.

[BAdler]

lol

 

double fine shared their budget in one of the early documentaries. labour was budgeted at $10-15k per developer month.

That isn't an uncommon blended rate for a man-month. Those aren't the actual costs to the project, but that is the rate you use when determining the budget when trying to get funding.

[rjshae]

For realism, all in-game romance should be procedurally generated and about the only way for your butt-ugly character to get laid is to accumulate enormous amounts of treasure through constant grinding and save scumming.

[Bill Gates' Son]

While I hate romances in WRPGs; I find the trolling from the anti romancer in this topic a bit childish and pathetic.  No doubt it's easy to see who's not mature in this topic.

[rjshae]

While I hate romances in WRPGs; I find the trolling from the anti romancer in this topic a bit childish and pathetic.  No doubt it's easy to see who's not mature in this topic.

 

Oh, lighten up. It's just a harmless discussion; not a debate about the death penalty.

[Monte Carlo]

While I hate romances in WRPGs; I find the trolling from the anti romancer in this topic a bit childish and pathetic.  No doubt it's easy to see who's not mature in this topic.

 

The po-faced humourlessness of the promancers is a consistent feature - I of course except people like Bruce who 'gets it.'

 

And when did trolling become 'something I don't agree with?'

Edited February 14, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[tajerio]

 

While I hate romances in WRPGs; I find the trolling from the anti romancer in this topic a bit childish and pathetic.  No doubt it's easy to see who's not mature in this topic.

 

The po-faced humourlessness of the promancers is a consistent feature - I of course except people like Bruce who 'gets it.'

 

And when did trolling become 'something I don't agree with?'

 

 

The instant somebody on the Internet disagreed with somebody else and needed a strawman.  Come on now.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

For someone who is accusing others of nitpicking, you seem to be doing the same and taking quotes out of context. I get the impression that even if you had Obsidian do what you're asking, it still wouldn't be enough and you would find fault with them. I call it the sliding scale of explanation and butthurt. The more one explains or apologises, the other person becomes more butthurt.

You couldn't be more wrong.  I have even posted that I don't care that romances aren't in.  I just don't like the overwhelming troll attitude of those who are staunchly against romance or the over all explanation from Obsidian as to why it isn't there.  I am also tired of the constant Bioware trolling from people who clearly either never played those games or blow a tiny miniscule issues out of proportion or think that for romance to be good it has to be half the games plot apparently.

 

 

Karranthain, made a great post explaining all this to you with Obsidian's explanation. Perhaps you could have read it considering it was two posts below mine. I can understand if you're having problems with comprehension If English isn't your first language. If English is your first language, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you could have someone in real life sit down with you, hold your hand and comfort you as you go through all the points that Karranthain addressed.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Fatback]

I read the first point by the op and in my mind based on how other threads go in this forum group and decided to just make my point.

 

When you are basically in the heat of battle constantly against a lich or dire bears or sword bees there is to much adrenaline going threw you for this supposed love hormone to be in the fore front. Any sexual contact made by the pc would not harbor love but lust.

 

I would however like if they made a character arc were one of your team members was just a slam pig. Thank you for your time

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So is romance going to be like turn-based, in that some reprobates keep begging it despite the fact it is not included?