The general fitness thread

[Woldan]

So Woldan, what do you think of that HIIT exercise regime that's been turning popular/trendy the last year or so?

 

Short bursts of high-intensity interval training several times a week rather then hour long training sessions and all of that...

 

To be honest, I've never tried it. I'm boring and normal exercise has always worked so well for me I've never seen a reason to try other things than normal exercise routines, forced reps, drop sets and sometimes supersets. As I see it HIT training is both endurance and strength training, I prefer to separate them because its IMO better to focus on one thing at a time to maximize the training effect. I feel I'm close to reaching my natural physical (genetic) peak strength and endurance so what I'm doing seems to work perfectly. (for me)

 

My current routine consist of 3 days strength training and 1 day cardio (bike, 60-100km, extremely hilly terrain), one day rest. Rinse and repeat. 

Edited January 28, 2014 by Woldan

[213374U]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jhWOSoWhs8

 

Props to the man for stepping outside of his comfort zone and into a setting where all the effort and sacrifice he's put in through the years is seemingly rendered pointless. That takes some balls in general, but it's even more impressive when dealing with something so ego-sensitive as one's physique.

 

Still, goes to show how show-oriented a sport bodybuilding is. The guy is seriously lagging behind in motor control and proprioception, auxiliaries development and resistance, with respect to his apparent fitness level.

[Walsingham]

Yeah, I'm going to butt in and add that HIIT is just not for everyone. A minimum level of fitness is required and due to how taxing it can be, a medical check up is in order before attempting it. Play it safe, folks.

 

This is true. Bear in mind that bits of me snapped permanently during the same period.

[ManifestedISO]

 proprioception

 

Had not heard of this word. Synonym for spatial awareness, I guess. I may just borrow the first half for a PoE paladin character name ... Proprio the Defiler!! 

[213374U]

 

 proprioception

 

Had not heard of this word. Synonym for spatial awareness, I guess. I may just borrow the first half for a PoE paladin character name ... Proprio the Defiler!! 

 

 

Close. It's a fancy term to refer to the feedback mechanism that provides your nervous system with information about joint state and the muscular activity with regards to that state. Improved proprioception results in more efficient motor patterns and decreased risk of injury.  "Proprio" is actually latin for self, so "self-awareness" is a pretty good summary.

[Woldan]

Still, goes to show how show-oriented a sport bodybuilding is. The guy is seriously lagging behind in motor control and proprioception, auxiliaries development and resistance, with respect to his apparent fitness level.

In fitness its pretty much ''what you train is what you can do well.'' If you do lots of strength training with low reps you're going to be able to lift very heavy weights for a couple of times. If you do lots of gymnastics you'll have a flexible body and very good muscle coordination. But the guy lifting the heavy weights won't be good at gymnastics and the gymnastics guy wont be good at lifting heavy weights.

 

When exercising you have to decide what you want to be good at.

[213374U]

When exercising you have to decide what you want to be good at.

 

Agreed. But if you have to make that decision, why not choose to be good at everything? (or as close to as is within the realm of possibility)

 

I'm familiar with the principle of specifity, but making it the basis for an either/or viewpoint is sadly limiting. Clearly the gymnast in the vid isn't going to be able to bench 600 lbs. But outside of world-class athletic feats, which is not what most people train for, a better general conditioning is possible... without necessarily compromising other fitness aspects. The point I was making is that to a bodybuilder, size (and definition, etc) is the #1 priority, raw strength being simply a means to achieve that, and everything else an afterthought... why then are they still so prominent in general fitness culture?

 

Traditional, bodybuilding-influenced strength training regimes are great for building strength and size... and little else. This is what most people have access to owing to the fact that "normal" gyms, and the equipment and instructors therein have evolved from the bodybuilding culture of the 60's and 70's.

 

Check this dude out, for contrast:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzUcQM58kDY

 

He has some beast DL and BP vids, too. He's no weakling. How many pro BB'ers can do half that stuff?

[Woldan]

 

When exercising you have to decide what you want to be good at.

Agreed. But if you have to make that decision, why not choose to be good at everything? (or as close to as is within the realm of possibility)

 

Its not possible to be good at everything, you can be mediocre at everything or very good at few things. For example I'll never have the super awesome endurance of pro-cyclists because I'm too heavy. I'm about 25 kilograms heavier than the average professional cyclist and no matter how hard I try I'll never be as good as them. Why? Because I have much more muscle mass (weight) than them so I can perform heavy lifts, and it makes me too heavy to become a professional cyclist (I'm an avid cyclist though).

And its not just limited in strength vs endurance.

 

Just look at the Olympics, show me someone who is a top-notch 200m hurdle sprinter AND hammer thrower. 

Edited February 2, 2014 by Woldan

[Woldan]

Did some chin-ups today, for some reason I found them much easier with palms not facing me. Could only do 12-13 per set with proper form (though I REALLY felt my sore chest having done bench pressing yesterday), need to perform this exercise more often. I like it. 

Edited February 3, 2014 by Woldan

[213374U]

I guess you mean pull ups? Unless you mean with a pronated close grip? It's odd because supinated grip gives the elbow flexors a better mechanical advantage than when you use a pronated grip. Maybe your lats are naturally dominant in comparison to your arms.

 

At any rate, if you are doing more than 10 reps throughout multiple sets, you should consider adding weight. No slacking...

 

As for the sore chest, this is what I do when my chest is sore from a previous workout. The vid says shoulder stretching, but you'll feel it in your chest for sure.

 

Me, I'm in my deload week, so not really busting my ass off.

 

(I'll get to your other post tomorrow btw, argument's too interesting to pass up)

[ShadySands]

Generally speaking, I've seen people have higher pull up numbers than chin ups. Especially the larger guys.

[Woldan]

I honestly have no idea what the difference between chins and pulls is, I used a close grip (less than shoulder-width simply because its the most comfortable stance for me), palms facing away from me and pulled till my chin almost touched the bar, keeping my lower body perfectly straight. I have very little knowledge about body weight exercises. I'm good with palms-facing-away/down exercises because my biceps brachialis (sp?) is very strong I think. 

 

And @  213374U thanks for the stretching link, I'll try that right away.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Woldan

[ShadySands]

The difference is pretty much just the grip. Pronated (palms away, pull up) or supinated (palms facing, chin up) as 213374U said

 

I usually don't know the technical name for anything but I spent 5 years praying at the altar of the pull up/chin up (Marine Corps)

[Woldan]

Thats a misleading name then, I mean, both exercise require the chin reaching the bar. I'd simply call them reverse-grip pulls and be done with it.

[alanschu]

 

 

...or without some serious gear. Bodybuilding is fine, but it has done more harm than good to the public perception of what gyms are (or should be) about.

 

So true.  I have seen a fair number of my women friends/acquaintances refuse to lift weights because they are afraid of bulking up.

[alanschu]

Its not possible to be good at everything, you can be mediocre at everything or very good at few things. For example I'll never have the super awesome endurance of pro-cyclists because I'm too heavy. I'm about 25 kilograms heavier than the average professional cyclist and no matter how hard I try I'll never be as good as them. Why? Because I have much more muscle mass (weight) than them so I can perform heavy lifts, and it makes me too heavy to become a professional cyclist (I'm an avid cyclist though).

And its not just limited in strength vs endurance.

 

 

Just look at the Olympics, show me someone who is a top-notch 200m hurdle sprinter AND hammer thrower. 

 

 

I guess it comes down to semantics, but IMO Olympic athletes are not "good" at their sport.  They are exceptional at it.

 

I think most of us here can appreciate that gains from exercise tend to go up logarithmically.  Yes, you will rarely get people that are 200m hurdle runners and a hammer thrower, but that's in large part because to become the best (a far cry from "good") at any of those sports, they're going to need to spend 1000% more time squeaking out 1% improvement in performance, whereas I can spend 1/100th the time in the gym preparing at both of those sports and see significant improvements in both of them, because currently I wouldn't say that I am that good at either.

 

 

If "mediocre at everything" means "pretty much above average in everything, and likely not be an insignificant amount" then I wouldn't consider that a bad thing at all.

 

If someone does exercise for the health benefits, I do think that they do themselves a disservice by focusing on specific disciplines.

[Gfted1]

Just look at the Olympics, show me someone who is a top-notch 200m hurdle sprinter AND hammer thrower.

 

 

Decathlon.

[213374U]

I was more or less going to make the same point as alanschu, so no need to rephrase it. I'm going to add simply that less than 1% of the general population train with elite-level competitive goals in mind—and those who do only keep it up so for a period of their lives—so it makes no sense to have the same methods, standards and objectives for professional athletes seeking specific results in a particular sport than for everyone else.

 

In addition, and please do not take this personally, the relation between mass and "strength" is not linear. Oly lifters in the lower weight categories handle greater poundages than their heavier counterparts, relative to their weight. Guys in the middle tiers handle more weight in 1-RM compound lifts than BB'ers that are heavier. The reason is that, assuming equal motor neuron efficency, the torque a muscle can place on a joint is a function of its cross-sectional area while its weight is proportional to is volume. The cross-sectional area increases (roughly) with the square of the area of the muscle, but the volume does so at a cubic rate. Again, this is assuming perfect motor neuron function, which is an ideal proposition. Gains in raw strength can be a result of better neuromuscular efficiency without necessarily adding (much) mass.

 

It is also important to consider what we understand by "strength". Are we simply taking into account marks for the "big three"? Then everyone is a powerlifter. How about power? Resistance? Flexibility? Coordination? Again, I'd refer to the vid I posted. If those aren't strength feats, I don't know what is. But if you are not convinced, take a look at NFL players. Those guys have it all, speed, strength, agility, stamina. They are also usually rather massive—momentum is key if you intend to keep running after a tackle—but they are not as massive as BB'ers, powerlifters, etc.

 

The point I'm trying to make with this long-winded tirade is that there is a continuous spectrum between not training and training for competitive results in top-tier strength events. Most people are going to be in the middle.

[Azdeus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzUcQM58kDY

 

I'm not one into training, but if I were, that is what I'd want to do. That's awesome.

[Mor]

Btw most of the things he does are ~pretty easy to achieve with some practice. Skipping the first example where you'd need a good a lot of practice to achieve that balance and probably be able to do some 25+ pull ups. The next few things you should be able to achieve ~some result with moderate exercise over a month, after that the more you practice the further you go. As long as its not to dangerous, such games are pretty fun and spice up the routine of exercise pushing you forward.

[213374U]

I'm not one into training, but if I were, that is what I'd want to do. That's awesome.

 

If you think that's cool, you have all it takes. Get started, and you'll be "into training" sooner than you realize. Baby steps, man... 

[Woldan]

If "mediocre at everything" means "pretty much above average in everything, and likely not be an insignificant amount" then I wouldn't consider that a bad thing at all.

If you look at what ''average'' is then its really not a big deal to get above average and it starts to get interesting at ''extremely good''. Being able to do more than ten push-ups is ''above average'', and so is being able to deadlift your own weight more than once.

Above average is nothing.

[Woldan]

Does anybody have good advice about how soon you can return to your normal exercise regime after having had the flu? I've been free of fever for three days now, I feel really energetic and there is no sign of an illness left, though I know three people who screwed up their lives because they didn't take their flu serious enough and strained their bodies prematurely. Two got bad heart infections that lasted for 6 months, the third person died in the hospital and none of them performed any physical tasks other than light office work, and I'm talking about lifting weights weighing 150kg+. 

 

A couple of sources say its save to return to your exercise regime if you've been free of fever for only 24+ hours, other sources say you should at least wait for 4-7 days.   Sure, I could play it reeeally safe and wait weeks, the problem is I get dangerously depressed without my workout so the sooner I can return pumping iron the better. 

 

I really can't remember when I returned to weight lifting the last time I had the flu, that was 8 years ago if I remember correctly. 

Edited February 14, 2014 by Woldan

[Orogun01]

Give it a light try and if you start feeling bad then stop and wait some more.

[Woldan]

The problem with this idea is when performing lifts I always feel pretty damn exhausted, I wouldn't notice any difference until its too late. ..or until I'd pass out and die. 

Edited February 14, 2014 by Woldan