Features concerns so far

[Valorian]

 

Well, thanks for the info.

Sad day is upon us, indeed.

I hope the story is Planescape levels then, cause gameplay seems to turn out to be utterly stupid.

 

 

Oh, you're welcome.

 

They could at least award XP for the first creature of a given type that you defeat; first "wolf", first "dire wolf", first "Dyrwood bandit", for each named individual and unique monster etc.

[Valorian]

Or not.. if we'd end up in a situation where they give as many creatures the same basic name to avoid awarding too much XP. :/

 

Maybe just reduce the overall impact of combat XP compared to " objective XP ".

[Chilloutman]

Maybe my mind will be blown but most of the mechanics as described so far sound like a soup sandwich to me.

 

1) No healing. C'mon man.

2) No resurrection. I guess this is a non factor since we cant die unless there is a TPW, which means reload anyway.

3) No fast travel.

4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.

5) No kill xp.

6) All classes can be all things.

 

1) I am quite torn around this, it seems it may be fun but I have to see it with my own eyes working. Bad implementatin will mean rest spawn or devils tool

 

AUTOHEAL

 

2) same as above

3) well I can live with that, it was not much issue for me in IE games

4) as point 1

5) doesnt seems so radical, but I also sometimes like to farm XP

6) this I am not sure about how they mean it. I for exaple like if I can make cleric good frontline fighter even that it was suposed to be more healing/buffing bot.

 

 

I have no "real" concerns that are really worth mentioning or "bashing" at.

 

I don't have enough information regarding the "Attributes" to say anything about it. The only thing I hope is that they go the "Fallout"- or "IE" games route regarding this (Attributes that are pretty much "set" all game and can be boosted by a one-time item or a one-time Level at Level 6 or 7 and Skill Sets that can be upgraded more frequently). Then, in my opinion, they can call the stats whatever they want.

 

All in all, I would need more information regarding this.

 

Also, Chilloutman, in this link in your OP you say:

 

 

 

I think they going for this:[/size]

 

http://wiki.guildwar...mary_attributes

Whilst here, in this thread, you say:

here is link where you can see what they are actually aiming for:

 

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute

Am I misunderstanding something?

 

Anyways... I don't really have no concerns ^^

 

 

where you can see what they are actually aiming for:

 

yeah, i would add

 

where you can see what they are actually aiming for: by my opinion and from what I read so far

 

Sorry, didnt want to confuse or be too radical. English is not my native language. And you are nitpicking

Edited September 14, 2013 by Chilloutman

[Fearabbit]

Things I'm worried about:

 

1) They took out Repairing. Which in my opinion is a hugely important balancing feature.

2) Crafting... I loved it in Arcanum, hated it in pretty much every other game. I hope it won't be like the system in NWN2 (where, if I remember correctly, the most important thing was that you had loads of empty flasks).

2) The weird attributes - basically I just want to know what to expect here, because I've never played an RPG that didn't have some sort of standard set of attributes.

3) The stash - as Sawyer said, the game will be balanced around the assumption that players pick up and sell all the loot they find. It sounds tedious. However, it might cancel out with a probably-broken economy.

[rjshae]

2) World map

 

- In one of latest updates was confirmed that there will be travel system as in BG. It was ok system but after playing NWN2 SoZ, Fallout 1,2 and Arcanum I really like explorable world map, especially because I love ranger class and it always seems gimped when core advantages of this class are not usefull in game

 

Yes, some type of overland movement system would be nice. Not necessarily to the level of detail of Fallout or SoZ, but at least a mesh or grid to give a sense of choosing your own path. Perhaps once areas of the overland map are explored, it would include an auto-plot feature to draw an optimum movement plan for you as you move the mouse about.

 

As for Rangers, well hopefully they'll allow you to avoid ambushes in area maps--especially since there's little or no XP for grinding.

Edited September 14, 2013 by rjshae

[Leferd]

No XP for psychopathic murder counts?

 

Good riddance. One of the best things Sawyer and Cain came up with.

[Osvir]

 

Ok, where was it stated that there will be no kill xp?

Don't tell me that devs confirmed this nonsense somewhere.

I mean, what's even the point of playing then?

 

They did confirm this nonsense.

 

Supposedly, the point is to let players consistently avoid combat (in a combat focused game with combat focused gamey attributes, yes), by absurdly diminishing the incentive to engage in combat.

I haven't thought of this aspect before in combination with the No-Combat XP:

 

- Random "Map Travel" Encounters

 

Will they be treated as Objectives or is it just an Obstacle that gives nothing but maybe some random low-par Leather Armor loot? Are Random Encounters going to be in PE at all? Would you be able to escape from a Random Encounter?

 

I believe in Objective XP, but I also believe in Combat XP in these circumstances... if I encounter a Random Encounter and I've encountered a similar one several times before... would I really want to fight it again when I already know what kind of stuff they drop and I know I won't get any experience from it (except for maybe learning to play the game a little bit better, but that's a pretty redundant reward in this sort of situation)? :/

 

You can probably do "Objective XP" differently... but I'm speculation Obsidian might do something like this:

 

[Quest Edit]

Some story about the quest:

- Guard Faction wants help with the Bandits in the woods.

- The Bandits does not know that the Guards have a hidden outpost nearby.

- Taking out the Bandit Patrol will alert the Bandits to the Guards presence, as the Patrol is supposed to return at some point as well. If they go missing, the Bandits grow suspicious. And they will have better gear when you arrive.

- Not taking out the Bandit Patrol will allow you to catch the Bandit Camp by surprise later.

[Quest Edit End]

 

Objective XP: Combat

1. Objective is to go to Point C, you are at Point A.

2. At Point B there are 3 Bandits who are patrolling

- Bandit George

- Bandit Paul

- Bandit Lars

 

Each bandit is worth 100 Experience each (300 XP Total)

 

3. You get to Point C and now you are rewarded with completion of the objective, and for taking out the enemies. 300 XP+250 XP worth.

 

Objective XP: No Combat

1. You are at Point A, get to Point C

2. At Point B you meet the Bandits, but choose not to engage, because the objective is just to get to Point C.

3. At Point C you are rewarded with 100 XP for getting to the location quickly and you didn't take out the Bandit patrol (which would've been revealing to the position at Point C) and +250 XP for completion.

 

Of course, the reason I put 100 XP for "No Combat" is because you'll face the 3 Bandits later at the Bandit Camp (100 XP worth). Similarly, if you take out the Bandits by Combat, when they gear up at the Camp maybe you gain 110 XP for each Bandit later or something. This is just 1 "Paragraph" of a much larger Quest after all (A Quest might be split up into several different Objectives). So, I believe you might get Experience for Combat, but in a sort of "Post-Combat" kind of way rather than the usual "Instant-Kill Reward XP".

 

In a way I look at it like a "job"~ metaphor.

 

You work hard for a couple of weeks, then you get your paycheck later.

 

In the IE games, you also work hard, but you get your paycheck instantly.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Osvir

[motorizer]

Maybe my mind will be blown but most of the mechanics as described so far sound like a soup sandwich to me.

 

1) No healing. C'mon man.

2) No resurrection. I guess this is a non factor since we cant die unless there is a TPW, which means reload anyway.

3) No fast travel.

4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.

5) No kill xp.

6) All classes can be all things.

1) will wait and see...but I'm glad we're not going to be stuffing 20 potions down every fight...stopping for a drink has never been a valid tactic in any known form of combat

2) resurrection just makes death inconsequential, good riddance

3) will have to wait and see how this works out..

4) see 3

5) good

6) I hate artificial restrictions on what you can do and rigid abilities, no one should be able to do everything but you should be able to make an unconventional character

[mcmanusaur]

Look, guys. All that the lack of "combat XP" means is that combat is simply a means of achieving other ends in this game, not an end in and of itself. If you ask me, that's not a bad thing, unless you like having an incentive to grind for the sake of it.

[UpgrayeDD]

 

Maybe my mind will be blown but most of the mechanics as described so far sound like a soup sandwich to me.

 

1) No healing. C'mon man.

2) No resurrection. I guess this is a non factor since we cant die unless there is a TPW, which means reload anyway.

3) No fast travel.

4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.

5) No kill xp.

6) All classes can be all things.

1) will wait and see...but I'm glad we're not going to be stuffing 20 potions down every fight...stopping for a drink has never been a valid tactic in any known form of combat

2) resurrection just makes death inconsequential, good riddance

3) will have to wait and see how this works out..

4) see 3

5) good

6) I hate artificial restrictions on what you can do and rigid abilities, no one should be able to do everything but you should be able to make an unconventional character

 

1. Neither has magic(which is what potions are) yet thats making its way into the game.  And what IE games were you playing where you chugged 20 potions down every fight?

2. So does characters that just get back up after every fight(looking at you NWN2).

5. And I love that you think it's not logical to be able to heal yourself with magic and think that avoiding combat shouldn't have eny bearing on your experience or ability in battle.

[UpgrayeDD]

Look, guys. All that the lack of "combat XP" means is that combat is simply a means of achieving other ends in this game, not an end in and of itself. If you ask me, that's not a bad thing, unless you like having an incentive to grind for the sake of it.

My only problem with it is it makes avoiding combat the best way to handle most any given situation that doesn't net you magic items or directly achieve quest goals.

[rjshae]

 

Look, guys. All that the lack of "combat XP" means is that combat is simply a means of achieving other ends in this game, not an end in and of itself. If you ask me, that's not a bad thing, unless you like having an incentive to grind for the sake of it.

My only problem with it is it makes avoiding combat the best way to handle most any given situation that doesn't net you magic items or directly achieve quest goals.

 

Why it's almost like... the real world. Imagine that.

 

Edited September 14, 2013 by rjshae

[mcmanusaur]

Look, guys. All that the lack of "combat XP" means is that combat is simply a means of achieving other ends in this game, not an end in and of itself. If you ask me, that's not a bad thing, unless you like having an incentive to grind for the sake of it.

 

My only problem with it is it makes avoiding combat the best way to handle most any given situation that doesn't net you magic items or directly achieve quest goals.

 

How so? It simply makes combat not necessarily the best way when it otherwise would have been, no?

 

Why it's almost like... the real world. Imagine that.

 

My immersion disappears the second that there are believable consequences to disembowling inhabitants of fantasy worlds.

[JFSOCC]

I fear corridor maps and single solution obstacles.

I fear character-class pigeon-holing.

I fear time constraints end up downscoping the game.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I don't really have many pressing concerns and am storing outrage until more details are revealed.

 

 

Look, guys. All that the lack of "combat XP" means is that combat is simply a means of achieving other ends in this game, not an end in and of itself. If you ask me, that's not a bad thing, unless you like having an incentive to grind for the sake of it.

 

My only problem with it is it makes avoiding combat the best way to handle most any given situation that doesn't net you magic items or directly achieve quest goals.

I dunno, you could actually enjoy combat.

 

I fear corridor maps and single solution obstacles.I fear character-class pigeon-holing.I fear time constraints end up downscoping the game.

I have a slight fear about these things as well.

Edited September 14, 2013 by KaineParker

[Valorian]

 

Why it's almost like... the real world. Imagine that.

 

 

 

 

Yes, almost..

 

Apart from the little difference that in the real world holding the "objective" trophy in your hands on the podium doesn't improve your hunting skills at all. The act of hunting itself is what does the job.

[forgottenlor]

 I fear time constraints end up downscoping the game

 

 

My number one fear as well.

[Fearabbit]

 

Yes, almost..

 

Apart from the little difference that in the real world holding the "objective" trophy in your hands on the podium doesn't improve your hunting skills at all. The act of hunting itself is what does the job.

 

 

Yeah but if you go down that road, then you wind up at the learning-by-doing system of The Elder Scrolls, not at combat XP that can also be used to advance your diplomacy or crafting skills.

I think the XP system in RPGs is too abstract for these kind of arguments. All it's saying is "during your adventure, you've grown as a person", and the actual transformation into a tangible "character growth currency" in the game can be linked to anything you want. The difference here is that one system allows several non-combat paths to victory, whereas the other system only allows combat paths.

 

But I think this discussion has been had before. If that's the concern of some people, it's certainly allowed to voice that opinion.

[UpgrayeDD]

 

why it's almost like... the real world. Imagine that.

 

 

 

yeah because in the real world you get better at things by avoiding them right?  I also like how every time this comes up it's always used as the example of slaughtering hapless villagers.  when I see you guys do this it cheapens your arguements so much it's not even funny.  I can't think of a single game where I was able to kill npc villagers and did so for XP or gold.

 

 

 

How so? It simply makes combat not necessarily the best way when it otherwise would have been, no?

  Well I guess it all depends on how the combat turns out in the end.  But if it turns into a game when resource management (health/spell limits/item consumption) actually matters it becomes the ONLY smart choice(doing the exact opposite of sawyers intended goal) to avoid all combat.  If you'd like I'll do a play through of Baldurs Gate II and list all the enemies that become something that I would be able to avoid swiftly and and without penalty if they did not offer XP.  

 

I dunno, you could actually enjoy combat. 

 

I do enjoy combat in video games, but I also have a need to play smart.  To me if these two things are conflicted than I find that to be a poor design decision.  I guess it all depends on how they do things but in other games where they award set ammounts of exp at the end of a mission I have found it to be an unenjoyable aspect in them. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Why it's almost like... the real world. Imagine that.

 

Yes, almost..

 

Apart from the little difference that in the real world holding the "objective" trophy in your hands on the podium doesn't improve your hunting skills at all. The act of hunting itself is what does the job.

 

How does stabbing a goblin improve a bard's performance abilities then? Isn't that just as unrealistic as a Ranger getting better at tracking because he completed a quest?

[UpgrayeDD]

 

 

 

Yeah but if you go down that road, then you wind up at the learning-by-doing system of The Elder Scrolls, not at combat XP that can also be used to advance your diplomacy or crafting skills.

I think the XP system in RPGs is too abstract for these kind of arguments. All it's saying is "during your adventure, you've grown as a person", and the actual transformation into a tangible "character growth currency" in the game can be linked to anything you want. The difference here is that one system allows several non-combat paths to victory, whereas the other system only allows combat paths.

 

But I think this discussion has been had before. If that's the concern of some people, it's certainly allowed to voice that opinion.

 

I personally liked the way New vegas handled EXP more than any other game.  You could approach things in multiple ways and EXP never seemed to be any kind of issue in any of my playthroughs and I never focused on combat at the begining.

[okkoko]

2 of my top 3 concerns have been mentioned above, in no particular order:

 

1) Exceptionally odd attributes

 

2) No kill xp

 

3) ... [mystery]

 

o/ ---> . 

 

. ^ \o  

 

o/  v  \o

 

***

 

o/ ---> \O

 

\O ˇ \o

 

o/  v  \o

yes i get the picture i think but hmm eater it is brilliant or o/ v \o look closely at this picture the /\ being for number 1, an o being Zero so in truth there is written 01 v 10 INFACT the link google show up with containing there INN! 01 ---> moves to be like 10*10*10*10=10000 bits of information may i say ding ding!

Edited September 14, 2013 by okkoko

[UpgrayeDD]

 

How does stabbing a goblin improve a bard's performance abilities then? Isn't that just as unrealistic as a Ranger getting better at tracking because he completed a quest?

 

bards can and should utalize their bardic music abilities in combat

Edited September 14, 2013 by UpgrayeDD

[okkoko]

 

 

How does stabbing a goblin improve a bard's performance abilities then? Isn't that just as unrealistic as a Ranger getting better at tracking because he completed a quest?

 

bards can and should utalize their bardic music abilities in combat

like i can just see how i hammer at my foes with my magic electric guitar comon give me the fire and a fire ball or a ball of a magic blaster skills and all while your bard is playing his guitar

[UpgrayeDD]

Bard CC for the win.  Played right a bard can be the MVP.