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Features concerns so far

update concern criticism

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#1
Chilloutman

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Hello everyone,
 
I dont want to be somehow negative and I really love most things presented to us so far. But there are few things which were announced in updates and I am dissapointed by them. I am curios if someone else have similiar feelings about some features which were uncovered. Ofcourse not all is set in stone and maybe there will be changes to these, so lets talk about it and see if we can decide Obs guys to consider rework/polishing of these.
 
Enough blabling, my 3 issues so far:
 
1) Character attributes
 
- I really not like 'Power' stat etc. I would like more real physical/psychical stats. Not going to explain it as there were a lot of posts around this:
 
 
here is link where you can see what they are actualy aiming for:
 
 
2) World map
 
- In one of latest updates was confirmed that there will be travel system as in BG. It was ok system but after playing NWN2 SoZ, Fallout 1,2 and Arcanum I really like explorable world map, especially because I love ranger class and it always seems gimped when core advantages of this class are not usefull in game
 
3) I dont like pink/purple concept arts for magic - dont hate me for this
 
As I already state, I love P:E so far and really looking forward to it. But these are forums for discussion, not fansite of Justing Bieber so lets talk a little constructive. Also share with us your own concerns if you got any.
 
Cheers,
Chiloutman


#2
mcmanusaur

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As I already state, I love P:E so far and really looking forward to it. But these are forums for discussion, not fansite of Justing Bieber so lets talk a little constructive. Also share with us your own concerns if you got any.

 

Interview where Obsidian addresses all of your concerns


Edited by mcmanusaur, 13 September 2013 - 07:32 AM.

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#3
Gfted1

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Maybe my mind will be blown but most of the mechanics as described so far sound like a soup sandwich to me.

 

1) No healing. C'mon man.

2) No resurrection. I guess this is a non factor since we cant die unless there is a TPW, which means reload anyway.

3) No fast travel.

4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.

5) No kill xp.

6) All classes can be all things.



#4
Valorian

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2 of my top 3 concerns have been mentioned above, in no particular order:

 

1) Exceptionally odd attributes

 

2) No kill xp

 

3) ... [mystery]

 

o/ ---> . 

 

. ^ \o  

 

o/  v  \o

 

***

 

o/ ---> \O

 

\O ˇ \o

 

o/  v  \o

 

 



#5
Prometheus

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4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.

I hope the game is so balanced, that I have to backtrack only a few times in the complete game.

 

5) No kill xp.

In my opinion this was a good decision.

 

6) All classes can be all things.

 

What do you mean by this? I thought that all classes have a main role and if you want to play another role you will loose efficiency or can't play this role at all.

 

I don't like, that they divide combat skills(spells, abillities, etc.) and non combat skills.


Edited by Prometheus, 13 September 2013 - 08:24 AM.


#6
Gfted1

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What do you mean by this? I thought that all classes have a main role and if you want to play another role you will loose efficiency or can't play this role at all.
 
I don't like, that they divide combat skills(spells, abillities, etc.) and non combat skills.


My understanding is that there is no such thing as a non-viable build. Slightly less efficient? Sure. But any build on any "class" is totally doable.

I do like defined roles in my classes.

#7
Osvir

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I have no "real" concerns that are really worth mentioning or "bashing" at.

I don't have enough information regarding the "Attributes" to say anything about it. The only thing I hope is that they go the "Fallout"- or "IE" games route regarding this (Attributes that are pretty much "set" all game and can be boosted by a one-time item or a one-time Level at Level 6 or 7 and Skill Sets that can be upgraded more frequently). Then, in my opinion, they can call the stats whatever they want.

All in all, I would need more information regarding this.

Also, Chilloutman, in this link in your OP you say:
 

I think they going for this:

 

http://wiki.guildwar...mary_attributes

Whilst here, in this thread, you say:

here is link where you can see what they are actually aiming for:

 

Am I misunderstanding something?

Anyways... I don't really have no concerns ^^

 

Maybe my mind will be blown but most of the mechanics as described so far sound like a soup sandwich to me.

 

1) No healing. C'mon man.

2) No resurrection. I guess this is a non factor since we cant die unless there is a TPW, which means reload anyway.

3) No fast travel.

4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.

5) No kill xp.

6) All classes can be all things.

Just a reflection how I look at these concerns, you will most likely play the game differently than I will:

1. I want to believe this will be a good mechanic in the game and an interesting one as well.
2. As I intend to play, Ironman, loading the game won't be an issue because it'll be non-existent.
3. But won't we be able to Fast Travel when we are on the World Map (I.E. go to the edge of the map)? Elaborate.
4. You mean Camping Sites?
5. A looooong discussion has been had. I agree slightly, but that's because I wanted Combat Experience vs Objective Experience (You get stronger at Combat by doing Combat and you get stronger at Objective Skills/Non-Combat Methods by doing Objectives~ a Stealth approach would generate better "stealth"-ish damage)
6. I don't believe it will be "All Classes can be all things" but I believe we'll see diversity within each and every class. A Fighter that can use magical sword stuff, but perhaps not cast Magic Missiles. A Fighter wouldn't be a Wizard, but perhaps a Sword Mage. Becoming a Sword Mage might sacrifice the Pure Fighter path or something. This needs more information for me.



#8
Sensuki

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I am concerned that the game will not have rain effects and farm animals.
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#9
Gfted1

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3. But won't we be able to Fast Travel when we are on the World Map (I.E. go to the edge of the map)? Elaborate.


That is correct:
 

* Other than reaching the edge of a map to access the world map, there is no fast-travel in PE. That said, we will likely avoid the IWD-style 5-level dungeons without semi-regular shortcuts back to the surface (N.B.: this does not mean Skyrim-style loops).


As Im lawn mowering a map, the last thing I want to do is revisit the far corner 5 times to rest. Oh the hilarity if one of the big donors created a party teleporting amulet that instantly moved you to a campsite and back. Or better, the respawning mooks you guys clamor for out of "realism" would stake out the obvious fixed location camp site and murder you while you sleep. :lol: Oh well, theres always the mod community.
 

4. You mean Camping Sites?


Is there some other method?

#10
Osvir

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4. You mean Camping Sites?


Is there some other method?

 

No, I just wanted specification and a lil bit tired reading.

I kind of like the Camp Site function myself, if I have to go back I'll have to go back *shrug*

Is Resting a "limited", once-in-a-while, resource? Can you rest an unlimited time in a row to gain 100% health? Do you always get 100% health by resting? Is Obsidian considering allowing the Rest function to have a sort of downtime? (I.E: Rest Once, for up to 8 in-game hours, then you can't rest in, say 10 in-game hours) Does some enemies really re-spawn or reset or is that speculation thus far? (I wouldn't personally mind it tbh)



#11
Tamerlane

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Creatures may respawn in certain areas, but it will be scripted and not procedural/across the board.



#12
Lephys

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1) No healing. C'mon man.


For Health. For Stamina (functionally the same thing as "health" in almost every other RPG ever) there is healing.
 

2) No resurrection. I guess this is a non factor since we cant die unless there is a TPW, which means reload anyway.


I'm assuming you mean on-the-fly resurrection... from a 0-Health state (which again is not a 0-Stamina state). As, I'm fairly sure there's some manner of resurrection, period, in the game, even if it requires going back to town/stronghold or something. Then there was mention of a certain game mode possibly meaning the permanent death of your characters if they reach 0-Health. Either way, I think "no resurrection" at all is a bit inaccurate.
 

3) No fast travel.


Except for every single use of the world map. Also, I'm not sure where they announced that all rest points will be at the edge of the map only, let alone that you'll have to visit them 5 times per level of a dungeon/area. I'm interested in the source for that.
 

4) Walking everywhere to go heal / rest / regain abilities. See above for good times.


Which is problematic, because if we didn't need to heal or rest or regain abilities, we wouldn't walk ANYwhere, and camp sites (rest areas) will never, ever be in our path. They'll always be leagues away. In fact, I think for every step you take towards one, they move a step away from you, just to taunt you.
 

5) No kill xp.


Except when killing leads to XP.
 

6) All classes can be all things.


Except each other.

Edited by Lephys, 13 September 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#13
Gfted1

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I kind of like the Camp Site function myself, if I have to go back I'll have to go back *shrug*

Is Resting a "limited", once-in-a-while, resource? Can you rest an unlimited time in a row to gain 100% health? Do you always get 100% health by resting? Is Obsidian considering allowing the Rest function to have a sort of downtime? (I.E: Rest Once, for up to 8 in-game hours, then you can't rest in, say 10 in-game hours) Does some enemies really re-spawn or reset or is that speculation thus far? (I wouldn't personally mind it tbh)


Are these rhetorical questions?

The trend for PE seems to be to take an existing mechanic and add a disincentive to use it, because degenerative blah blah. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the end result of camping to include: a) not heal you all the way to 100%, b) only allow you to rest on some predetermined interval or c) constantly bombarding you with random encounters every time you try to rest.

#14
Lephys

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Kind of like how finite Health was implemented as a "disincentive" to partake in combat? Or how they put in this cool skill check system, then included the "disincentive" of the ability to fail a skill check?

What disincentives will they think of next? Limited ammo?
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#15
Osvir

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Are these rhetorical questions?

The trend for PE seems to be to take an existing mechanic and add a disincentive to use it, because degenerative blah blah. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the end result of camping to include: a) not heal you all the way to 100%, b) only allow you to rest on some predetermined interval or c) constantly bombarding you with random encounters every time you try to rest.

 

 

 

 

Rhetoric: Yes and no. I want to learn more about it, and I am asking questions because I don't know enough about it.

We seem to be on the same level of speculation, I wouldn't be surprised either if it was A, B & a variant of C (See Tamerlane's post). Different difficulty levels would (or at least should) affect this imo, IF Resting functions like your ABC. Casual = Heals to full health, can Rest as much as you want. Hardcore = Heals little health, can Rest once-in-a-while and/or once every in-game Day.



#16
Gfted1

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Are these rhetorical questions?

The trend for PE seems to be to take an existing mechanic and add a disincentive to use it, because degenerative blah blah. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the end result of camping to include: a) not heal you all the way to 100%, b) only allow you to rest on some predetermined interval or c) constantly bombarding you with random encounters every time you try to rest.

 

 

 

 

Rhetoric: Yes and no. I want to learn more about it, and I am asking questions because I don't know enough about it.

We seem to be on the same level of speculation, I wouldn't be surprised either if it was A, B & a variant of C (See Tamerlane's post). Different difficulty levels would (or at least should) affect this imo, IF Resting functions like your ABC. Casual = Heals to full health, can Rest as much as you want. Hardcore = Heals little health, can Rest once-in-a-while and/or once every in-game Day.

 

 

That would be an awesome solution but I don't think its in the scope of their budget. Fingers crossed.



#17
Osvir

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Are these rhetorical questions?

The trend for PE seems to be to take an existing mechanic and add a disincentive to use it, because degenerative blah blah. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the end result of camping to include: a) not heal you all the way to 100%, b) only allow you to rest on some predetermined interval or c) constantly bombarding you with random encounters every time you try to rest.

 

Rhetoric: Yes and no. I want to learn more about it, and I am asking questions because I don't know enough about it.

We seem to be on the same level of speculation, I wouldn't be surprised either if it was A, B & a variant of C (See Tamerlane's post). Different difficulty levels would (or at least should) affect this imo, IF Resting functions like your ABC. Casual = Heals to full health, can Rest as much as you want. Hardcore = Heals little health, can Rest once-in-a-while and/or once every in-game Day.

 

That would be an awesome solution but I don't think its in the scope of their budget. Fingers crossed.

 

Not at all. Unless it is super advancing coding.

A) Health will be given when you Rest. This much we know. So this variable is already in the game code already. Example: Switching the 1-3 Health gained by Resting to 10-15 Health gained by Resting is a very simple solution. Because Obsidian programmers will decide how much Health you will gain when Resting, then they could possibly tie that too different Difficulty levels as well.

Concept: Psuedo-code~~~
[IF] Player Picks [Casual Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 10000 (Caps at Max) Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Easy Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 10 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Normal Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 5 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Hard Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 2 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Hardcore Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 1 Health

B) IF there are intervals (Let's say you can only Rest once every 8 in-game hour) it would be as simple as the above to modify as well.

Concept: No psuedo-code =*(
Casual = Rest 1000000000 times (virtually unlimited, there's probably some sort of Loop code you can put in here)
Easy = Rest every 2 in-game Hour
Normal = Rest every 4 in-game Hour
Hard = Rest every 6 in-game Hour
Hardcore = Rest every 8 in-game Hour



#18
Bartimaeus

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Most of the gameplay mechanics mentioned have disappointed me - or at least the sounds of them has, which, I admit, isn't really giving them the full benefit of the doubt, but nonetheless - ...and honestly, while I'm still glad this is being made, I can't really say I'm actually too interested anymore...at least not for the gameplay mechanics already mentioned. On the other hand, the more character/story related stuff, I am still fairly excited about. Hopefully, it'll be enough to pull me in and still give it a try.  :)


Edited by Bartimaeus, 13 September 2013 - 12:59 PM.

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#19
Valorian

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Are these rhetorical questions?

The trend for PE seems to be to take an existing mechanic and add a disincentive to use it, because degenerative blah blah. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the end result of camping to include: a) not heal you all the way to 100%, b) only allow you to rest on some predetermined interval or c) constantly bombarding you with random encounters every time you try to rest.

 

Rhetoric: Yes and no. I want to learn more about it, and I am asking questions because I don't know enough about it.

We seem to be on the same level of speculation, I wouldn't be surprised either if it was A, B & a variant of C (See Tamerlane's post). Different difficulty levels would (or at least should) affect this imo, IF Resting functions like your ABC. Casual = Heals to full health, can Rest as much as you want. Hardcore = Heals little health, can Rest once-in-a-while and/or once every in-game Day.

 

That would be an awesome solution but I don't think its in the scope of their budget. Fingers crossed.

 

Not at all. Unless it is super advancing coding.

A) Health will be given when you Rest. This much we know. So this variable is already in the game code already. Example: Switching the 1-3 Health gained by Resting to 10-15 Health gained by Resting is a very simple solution. Because Obsidian programmers will decide how much Health you will gain when Resting, then they could possibly tie that too different Difficulty levels as well.

Concept: Psuedo-code~~~
[IF] Player Picks [Casual Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 10000 (Caps at Max) Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Easy Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 10 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Normal Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 5 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Hard Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 2 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Hardcore Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 1 Health

B) IF there are intervals (Let's say you can only Rest once every 8 in-game hour) it would be as simple as the above to modify as well.

Concept: No psuedo-code =*(
Casual = Rest 1000000000 times (virtually unlimited, there's probably some sort of Loop code you can put in here)
Easy = Rest every 2 in-game Hour
Normal = Rest every 4 in-game Hour
Hard = Rest every 6 in-game Hour
Hardcore = Rest every 8 in-game Hour

 

 

So the difficulty here is measured by the player's willpower to wait for x in-game hours, doing nothing?

 

I'm pro rest limits, even limiting the total number of times you can rest per game (I impose this limit myself), but there needs to be a clever way to do it.



#20
Osvir

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Are these rhetorical questions?

The trend for PE seems to be to take an existing mechanic and add a disincentive to use it, because degenerative blah blah. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the end result of camping to include: a) not heal you all the way to 100%, b) only allow you to rest on some predetermined interval or c) constantly bombarding you with random encounters every time you try to rest.

 

Rhetoric: Yes and no. I want to learn more about it, and I am asking questions because I don't know enough about it.

We seem to be on the same level of speculation, I wouldn't be surprised either if it was A, B & a variant of C (See Tamerlane's post). Different difficulty levels would (or at least should) affect this imo, IF Resting functions like your ABC. Casual = Heals to full health, can Rest as much as you want. Hardcore = Heals little health, can Rest once-in-a-while and/or once every in-game Day.

 

That would be an awesome solution but I don't think its in the scope of their budget. Fingers crossed.

 

Not at all. Unless it is super advancing coding.

A) Health will be given when you Rest. This much we know. So this variable is already in the game code already. Example: Switching the 1-3 Health gained by Resting to 10-15 Health gained by Resting is a very simple solution. Because Obsidian programmers will decide how much Health you will gain when Resting, then they could possibly tie that too different Difficulty levels as well.

Concept: Psuedo-code~~~
[IF] Player Picks [Casual Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 10000 (Caps at Max) Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Easy Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 10 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Normal Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 5 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Hard Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 2 Health,
[IF] Player Picks [Hardcore Difficulty] = [Rest] Heals 1 Health

B) IF there are intervals (Let's say you can only Rest once every 8 in-game hour) it would be as simple as the above to modify as well.

Concept: No psuedo-code =*(
Casual = Rest 1000000000 times (virtually unlimited, there's probably some sort of Loop code you can put in here)
Easy = Rest every 2 in-game Hour
Normal = Rest every 4 in-game Hour
Hard = Rest every 6 in-game Hour
Hardcore = Rest every 8 in-game Hour

 

 

So the difficulty here is measured by the player's willpower to wait for x in-game hours, doing nothing?

 

I'm pro rest limits, even limiting the total number of times you can rest per game (I impose this limit myself), but there needs to be a clever way to do it.

I've had this discussion before :p not going to get on to that right now though.

Limiting the number of times you can rest per Camp Site perhaps (Per game seems kind of scary, but interesting challenge still)? Or heightened danger the more times you Rest at a Camp Site?

Basically:

1) You can only rest 3 times at Camp Site X+Intervals (So you can only rest once every 8th Hour). After that, you've spent the Camp Site "resources" (I can see that happening at higher difficulties). Resting at the Stronghold is Unlimited.

or

2) You can only rest at any Camp Site for a maximum of 3 times in a row (Resting at an Inn or the Stronghold resets the counter)+Intervals (every 8th hour). Resting at a Camp Site post-3 times could cause "Stamina Sickness" and/or Rest Encounters or something.

Gtg, and got to think more about this one. Interesting.







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