Almost a quarter of men 'admit to rape in parts of Asia'

[Volourn]

"If someone is so drunk they can't made informed decisions then they can't consent to sex. Exactly how much alcohol that is varies from person to person. When in doubt, keep your pants on."

 

So... you are suggesting we have a blood alcohol test and limit for sex just like driving, right?

 

Bottom line is if two people are at a bar, they've both been drinking and are obviously drunk, they both say yes/consent to sex that is not rape. Period. There is no 'take backies'.

 

the argument that you are too drunk  to say yes is asanine logic espciially since both parties in that situation are likely drunk so going by insane troll logic they are BOTH rapists. lMAO

 

That doesn't make sense and insults real rape victims.

 

Afterall, how many men (and women for that matter)m wake up the next day regreting their sex partner/one night stand before. Never heard the saying she/he was a 9 when drunk but only a 5  when sober?

 

 

P.S. This is a different situation than if you see a passed out drunk and you 'help yourself' to sex. That is obviously rape.

[Nonek]

So if me and Mrs Nonek are both squiffy, and indulge in a bit of hows your father, then whom has raped whom?

[Raithe]

I'd say it's more a matter of balance and situation. If you're stone cold sober and they're slurring their words, they're a bit too drunk to make informed decisions and it's not so gentlemanly to have your way with her. if you're both somewhat squiffy together, it's more of a mutual thing. If you're drunk and randy at a party and stumble on a girl who's near passed out drunk then it's definitely taking advantage and more rapey.  - Isn't that a wonderful adjective?

[Gorgon]

Yes, well obviously taking advantage of someone who is passed out and unable to give consent is rape. How about other drugs though. MDMA removes restraint and defenses and leaves you default in love with the universe and with anything with a pulse. That's why people take it. It's obviously a very vulnerable state as well. 

[AGX-17]

And of course the general reaction is a broad generalization that Asian men are rapists. Well, that and another opportunity for obyknven to say exactly what we all know he's always going to say while failing to notice the irony of his choice of venue to make his statements.

 

I think there is a real issue in Asia and the high number of people that have committed rape. We hear almost daily stories on it from places like India. The biggest problem here is there almost seems to be a cultural acceptance of rape from some sectors in Asia and that is what concerns me the most

South Africa isn't exactly a shining beacon of womens' rights. Ignoring the painful irony of anyone in South Africa calling out another country for its prevalence of sexual violence perpetrated against women (yours is still the only country I've heard of in relation to "corrective rape" of lesbians,) the patriarchal rape culture is global, albeit by varying degrees. Something like 50% of the sexual assaults that occur in the U.S. are never reported by victims as a result of said culture.

 

 

100% of Asian men are rapists.

 

Extremely disturbing statistic.  

That is what you're implying.

Edited September 11, 2013 by AGX-17

[Volourn]

"Something like 50% of the sexual assaults that occur in the U.S. are never reported by victims as a result of said culture."

 

if they're not reported, how do we know they occur?

 

 

"the patriarchal rape culture"

 

l0lz

[Malcador]

That's why you just get them to sign a form beforehand.

[Orogun01]

 

"after all if you buy a woman a drink you're degrading her ability to make rational decisions,"

 

I never really got the argument that if you have sex with a woman who is drunk that you a e raping her because supposedly she can't say 'yes'; int hat state, since chances are the man in question in question is also drunk so going by that logic.. did the woman also rape the man in that situation? IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

I always thought being drunk should not be sued as ane xcuse for poor decisions. if a woman (or a man) sleeps with someone while drunk and thenr egrets it later TOO BAD SO SAD.

 

If someone is so drunk they can't made informed decisions then they can't consent to sex. Exactly how much alcohol that is varies from person to person. When in doubt, keep your pants on.

It may be a thing of misreading signals, a common trope in courtship is buying a girl a drink which if she accept its indicative of her interest. So it is implied that they have taken the first steps towards sex, if she however becomes drunk beyond cognition then all that the guy is left is with the initial implication. Something that some may interpret as consent and have no doubt in mind.

It is wrong when someone misunderstands and thinks that they are entitled because they bought a drink, or that they willfully take advantage of a situation. However, I feel a better preventive measure would be to not drink with strangers you don't want to **** in the near future.

[TrashMan]

I question each ean every internet article that claims something. I have run into far too many "studies" that ended up being total crap.

Call me a cynic.

 

That doesn't mean that there is isn't a problem or that those reports couldn't be true. Violence and rape and abuse are very real problems. But these days, I'm not so sure where lines are drawn. It seems so arbitrary.

 

Humans in general tend to guilt-trip, pressure and "bully" others in soft and hard ways to do stuff. How do people around you, how does society get you to behave how they want? By essentially mobbing.

[BruceVC]

 

Heh.  Ethics - A Letter to My Son About Consent

 

 

Dear D,

I’m writing this letter after watching the parents in the Steubenville Rape Trial crying over their son as he was found guilty of rape. I’ll be completely honest with you; I can’t say that I found much pity in my heart for their pain. Instead I found myself thinking, ‘yes, you should be crying. Your son treated that girl like a toy, a rag, a nothing. You raised a boy that lacked even the most basic compassion for that girl as a fellow human being.’ I’m imagining your face right now, thinking ‘okay mom, not quite sure why you’re telling me this…’ Yep, brace yourself; mom’s got a bee in her bonnet. Just bear with me and carry on reading.

 

You see, somehow this crying couple’s son and his friends were convinced they had a right to do as they pleased – either because they were brought up believing themselves to be above the rules, or because they were so lacking in common decency that they had no concept of how to treat other people. Whichever it was, the parents and coaches of Steubenville failed their sons and contributed to a culture where a girl was treated in the most heartless and disgraceful way for these boys amusement. The horrible truth is that as long as parents anywhere allow their boys to think that their wants are more important than other people’s rights this will continue to happen. I’m writing this letter to you because I don’t want to fail you in the same way. I love you too much to leave these things unsaid.

 

I need you to know that writing this doesn’t mean that I think you would act like these boys did. Discussing the potential for bad behaviour doesn’t mean I think it’s inevitable, or even likely. It just means I need to know (for both our sakes) that I taught you what sexual freedoms and responsibilities really mean. Educating you about proper consent doesn’t mean I see you as a potential sexual predator, any more than my educating you about the safe use of matches presumed you were a potential arsonist. This is about safety; your safety and the safety of any potential sexual partner.

 

I want you to consider a scenario. Imagine an average weekend when you’re staying at your mate’s house. You’ve had a good day laughing and joking with a group of people, some of whom you know and a couple of friends-of-friends. You’ve had a couple of drinks, laughed at stuff on the internet, played x-box for hours and then gradually drifted into various stages of getting comfortable, shedding some of your clothes and sleeping.

 

Now imagine waking up to discover a man on top of you, having obviously had some kind of sex with you. I know that’s a shocking thought. Something you’ve probably never considered, even though male victims make up 8% of reported rapes. Imagine your shock, your disgust and your anger. Now imagine everyone telling you that it’s your fault.

 

Would you feel that the fact that ‘you didn’t say no’ while it was happening made it okay? Or that the fact you were drunk or partly clothed or sleeping in public meant you’d put yourself at risk and were ‘asking for it?  Would the fact that you’d spent some time together, been friendly, or accepted his offer of a drink, mean you were ‘sending out signals’ to him? Would the fact that you made a sexual joke earlier in the evening mean you were ‘up for it’? Would the fact that he heard you’d had sex with one of his friends, or relatives, be an acceptable reason? How about if you were walking home alone at night? Would you be actively putting yourself in danger and ‘partly responsible’ if a stranger dragged you into an alley and sexually assaulted you? If you accepted an invite to a friend’s house and he pinned you down on the sofa, would you be to blame for being alone with him? I’m convinced your answer to each of those would be a loud and vehement ‘no’ – quite rightly.

 

So ask yourself this: if every single situation remained the same – except this time you’re female – does that make it acceptable? The answer, of course, is still no. No, nothing changes the lack of consent in these scenarios. Every one of those situations is sexual assault; no ifs, no buts, no maybes, and no excuses. Consent cannot be assumed, forced or taken. EVER. Consent is always, and only, something that is willingly given.

 

So let’s be absolutely perfectly clear: Sexual acts that take place without consent are rape, and the only thing that means yes is the word yes.

 

Not saying no does not mean yes.

Not fighting you off does not mean yes.

Not being awake does not mean yes.

Not being sober does not mean yes.

No type of clothing – or absence of clothing – means yes.

No amount of previous partners means yes.

 

Accepting a drink does not mean yes. Going out to dinner does not mean yes. Accepting a lift home in your car does not mean yes, and neither does an invitation in for coffee. Sitting next to you on the sofa does not mean yes. A gasp, sigh or returned caress does not mean yes. Erect flesh is not a yes – cold, fear, and even death can all cause the body to mimic the signs of sexual arousal. A yes to a kiss does not mean you can assume a yes to anything else. Never assume. Let me repeat that: NEVER ASSUME.

 

Resist the dangerous temptation to hope a kiss will just drift into something more without talking about it. Understand that ‘trying it on’ or ‘pushing your luck’ or imagining you’re correctly ‘reading the signs’ are all just polite euphemisms for being willing to risk committing a sexual assault in the hope that your feelings are reciprocated. Seriously, don’t. Every single woman I know can reel off experiences with this. Don’t be that guy.

 

The word yes is the only 100% unambiguous yes.

 

So, how do you get to yes? You ask. Really, it’s that simple. Ask the question, hear the answer, and respond accordingly. Even if it’s not the answer you were hoping for. Especially if it’s not the answer you were hoping for. That’s the difference between two people enjoying sex together, and one person sexually assaulting the other. The only reliable invitations to sex are clear, unambiguous, and verbal. If asking and affirming seem too embarrassing to contemplate, then maybe you just aren’t ready for sex with another person.

 

There’s only one person you should ever consider having unquestioning, silent sex with: yourself. That’s also the only person that might possibly ‘owe you’ an orgasm.

 

I know, all this sounds like such a list of rules and obligations for something that’s meant to be ‘natural’. Too much effort, even – well that’s tough. The world should not be treated like a sexual all-you-can-eat buffet where you can just help yourself. That’s exactly the attitude that has those boys (quite rightly) sitting in a cell. Sex that involves anyone beyond yourself is never just about your desire. If you imagine that your desires ever allow you to coerce another person into fulfilling your sexual need, then you have to ask yourself if you are willing to personally face the consequences of that view. We’re right back to that scenario where some stranger decides to use your body to fulfill their sexual desires, regardless of your feelings. Or you end up in a cell. Think about what that mindset means for the female relatives that you love. Should they be ‘fair game’ to any person attracted to them – like some commodity? That’s the rape-culture mindset, right there. It’s why I’m taking the time to put my thoughts on to paper; because the best lesson I can teach you is the ability to recognise that your choices have consequences, for you and the people you involve in your decisions.

 

So far, so negative… but there are real personal benefits to consent. Consensual sex is glorious. Verbal communication is hot. Listening to your partner and verbalising what you want will make you better in bed, and more responsive to each other’s needs. Talking about your desires and fantasies is far more likely to lead to them happening than hoping you’re dating a psychic. I’m sure your cringing at me now, but if you got this far there’s chocolate in the fridge, help yourself to it. Yes, this is a test.

 

You might not think it now, but making sure the sex you are involved in always involves complete consent will be the best gift you can give your future self. You’ll never look at yourself in the mirror and wonder if you pushed someone to doing something they weren’t ready for. You’ll never be the hypocrite that lectures their child while hiding a guilty secret. You won’t be burdened with regret at the harm you personally caused someone. You’ll never look a woman who has been abused in the face and know you’re a part of what caused her hurt. Most of all, you’ll be a leader not a follower. You’ll never be that boy in court; instead you’ll be part of a better consciousness that will make the world a safer place for everyone.

 

You’ll be the man I already see in you.

With love, always, Mum xxx

 

 

This is a very well written and relevant article concerning this topic. Nice one

[Walsingham]

My colleague has been reading this and asked the question:

 

IF the woman can be so drunk that the law deems she is not responsible for her actions in giving 'consent'

 

THEN does it not follow that a man in an equal state of drunkenness cannot be held responsible for his actions in complying with that 'consent'?

[HoonDing]

That mother is a nag.

[BruceVC]

My colleague has been reading this and asked the question:

 

IF the woman can be so drunk that the law deems she is not responsible for her actions in giving 'consent'

 

THEN does it not follow that a man in an equal state of drunkenness cannot be held responsible for his actions in complying with that 'consent'?

 

Mmmm, that is an interesting view but the article for me talks about the word "yes" as being what is important . In other words if  a very drunk girl says " yes lets have sex" then the next day says she was raped the guy shouldn't be charged. But we also need to use our common sense. In all my years of partying myself and anyone I know have known has never been accused of rape as it is obvious when it is appropriate to proceed to the next level of the physical relationship. So I don't see the law as unreasonable or someone effecting our ability to have sex whether we are drunk or not?

[Walsingham]

It's really rather academic, albeit worth discussing.

 

I think the most serious aspect is when a girl is essentially comatose. If the guy was also comatose then the odds of rape diminish somewhat.

[Nonek]

 

Dear D,

I’m writing this letter after watching the parents in the Steubenville Rape Trial crying over their son as he was found guilty of rape. I’ll be completely honest with you; I can’t say that I found much pity in my heart for their pain. Instead I found myself thinking, ‘yes, you should be crying. Your son treated that girl like a toy, a rag, a nothing. You raised a boy that lacked even the most basic compassion for that girl as a fellow human being.’ I’m imagining your face right now, thinking ‘okay mom, not quite sure why you’re telling me this…’ Yep, brace yourself; mom’s got a bee in her bonnet. Just bear with me and carry on reading.

 

You see, somehow this crying couple’s son and his friends were convinced they had a right to do as they pleased – either because they were brought up believing themselves to be above the rules, or because they were so lacking in common decency that they had no concept of how to treat other people. Whichever it was, the parents and coaches of Steubenville failed their sons and contributed to a culture where a girl was treated in the most heartless and disgraceful way for these boys amusement. The horrible truth is that as long as parents anywhere allow their boys to think that their wants are more important than other people’s rights this will continue to happen. I’m writing this letter to you because I don’t want to fail you in the same way. I love you too much to leave these things unsaid.

 

I need you to know that writing this doesn’t mean that I think you would act like these boys did. Discussing the potential for bad behaviour doesn’t mean I think it’s inevitable, or even likely. It just means I need to know (for both our sakes) that I taught you what sexual freedoms and responsibilities really mean. Educating you about proper consent doesn’t mean I see you as a potential sexual predator, any more than my educating you about the safe use of matches presumed you were a potential arsonist. This is about safety; your safety and the safety of any potential sexual partner.

 

I want you to consider a scenario. Imagine an average weekend when you’re staying at your mate’s house. You’ve had a good day laughing and joking with a group of people, some of whom you know and a couple of friends-of-friends. You’ve had a couple of drinks, laughed at stuff on the internet, played x-box for hours and then gradually drifted into various stages of getting comfortable, shedding some of your clothes and sleeping.

 

Now imagine waking up to discover a man on top of you, having obviously had some kind of sex with you. I know that’s a shocking thought. Something you’ve probably never considered, even though male victims make up 8% of reported rapes. Imagine your shock, your disgust and your anger. Now imagine everyone telling you that it’s your fault.

 

Would you feel that the fact that ‘you didn’t say no’ while it was happening made it okay? Or that the fact you were drunk or partly clothed or sleeping in public meant you’d put yourself at risk and were ‘asking for it?  Would the fact that you’d spent some time together, been friendly, or accepted his offer of a drink, mean you were ‘sending out signals’ to him? Would the fact that you made a sexual joke earlier in the evening mean you were ‘up for it’? Would the fact that he heard you’d had sex with one of his friends, or relatives, be an acceptable reason? How about if you were walking home alone at night? Would you be actively putting yourself in danger and ‘partly responsible’ if a stranger dragged you into an alley and sexually assaulted you? If you accepted an invite to a friend’s house and he pinned you down on the sofa, would you be to blame for being alone with him? I’m convinced your answer to each of those would be a loud and vehement ‘no’ – quite rightly.

 

So ask yourself this: if every single situation remained the same – except this time you’re female – does that make it acceptable? The answer, of course, is still no. No, nothing changes the lack of consent in these scenarios. Every one of those situations is sexual assault; no ifs, no buts, no maybes, and no excuses. Consent cannot be assumed, forced or taken. EVER. Consent is always, and only, something that is willingly given.

 

So let’s be absolutely perfectly clear: Sexual acts that take place without consent are rape, and the only thing that means yes is the word yes.

 

Not saying no does not mean yes.

Not fighting you off does not mean yes.

Not being awake does not mean yes.

Not being sober does not mean yes.

No type of clothing – or absence of clothing – means yes.

No amount of previous partners means yes.

 

Accepting a drink does not mean yes. Going out to dinner does not mean yes. Accepting a lift home in your car does not mean yes, and neither does an invitation in for coffee. Sitting next to you on the sofa does not mean yes. A gasp, sigh or returned caress does not mean yes. Erect flesh is not a yes – cold, fear, and even death can all cause the body to mimic the signs of sexual arousal. A yes to a kiss does not mean you can assume a yes to anything else. Never assume. Let me repeat that: NEVER ASSUME.

 

Resist the dangerous temptation to hope a kiss will just drift into something more without talking about it. Understand that ‘trying it on’ or ‘pushing your luck’ or imagining you’re correctly ‘reading the signs’ are all just polite euphemisms for being willing to risk committing a sexual assault in the hope that your feelings are reciprocated. Seriously, don’t. Every single woman I know can reel off experiences with this. Don’t be that guy.

 

The word yes is the only 100% unambiguous yes.

 

So, how do you get to yes? You ask. Really, it’s that simple. Ask the question, hear the answer, and respond accordingly. Even if it’s not the answer you were hoping for. Especially if it’s not the answer you were hoping for. That’s the difference between two people enjoying sex together, and one person sexually assaulting the other. The only reliable invitations to sex are clear, unambiguous, and verbal. If asking and affirming seem too embarrassing to contemplate, then maybe you just aren’t ready for sex with another person.

 

There’s only one person you should ever consider having unquestioning, silent sex with: yourself. That’s also the only person that might possibly ‘owe you’ an orgasm.

 

I know, all this sounds like such a list of rules and obligations for something that’s meant to be ‘natural’. Too much effort, even – well that’s tough. The world should not be treated like a sexual all-you-can-eat buffet where you can just help yourself. That’s exactly the attitude that has those boys (quite rightly) sitting in a cell. Sex that involves anyone beyond yourself is never just about your desire. If you imagine that your desires ever allow you to coerce another person into fulfilling your sexual need, then you have to ask yourself if you are willing to personally face the consequences of that view. We’re right back to that scenario where some stranger decides to use your body to fulfill their sexual desires, regardless of your feelings. Or you end up in a cell. Think about what that mindset means for the female relatives that you love. Should they be ‘fair game’ to any person attracted to them – like some commodity? That’s the rape-culture mindset, right there. It’s why I’m taking the time to put my thoughts on to paper; because the best lesson I can teach you is the ability to recognise that your choices have consequences, for you and the people you involve in your decisions.

 

So far, so negative… but there are real personal benefits to consent. Consensual sex is glorious. Verbal communication is hot. Listening to your partner and verbalising what you want will make you better in bed, and more responsive to each other’s needs. Talking about your desires and fantasies is far more likely to lead to them happening than hoping you’re dating a psychic. I’m sure your cringing at me now, but if you got this far there’s chocolate in the fridge, help yourself to it. Yes, this is a test.

 

You might not think it now, but making sure the sex you are involved in always involves complete consent will be the best gift you can give your future self. You’ll never look at yourself in the mirror and wonder if you pushed someone to doing something they weren’t ready for. You’ll never be the hypocrite that lectures their child while hiding a guilty secret. You won’t be burdened with regret at the harm you personally caused someone. You’ll never look a woman who has been abused in the face and know you’re a part of what caused her hurt. Most of all, you’ll be a leader not a follower. You’ll never be that boy in court; instead you’ll be part of a better consciousness that will make the world a safer place for everyone.

 

You’ll be the man I already see in you.

With love, always, Mum xxx

 

 

Dear Mother.

 

Brevity is not your enemy, your points backed up by linked facts presented in a sharp and concise fashion would be far more effective than this rambling diatribe. English is a vast and fluid language, and surely the words could be found to sum up your feelings in far fewer sentences and paragraphs. All that your letter made me think of is how little respect you are paying to a cherished method of communication.

 

Murdering the English language is not a crime I wish to indulge in, and so I have decided to divorce you as a parent. I do not wish to be infected by the uncaring and brutal attitude with which you treat the language of the Venerable Bede, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton and Dickens, or the casual disdain you find for economy of prose, concise terminology or interesting and gripping use of phrases and terms.

 

Shame on you Madam, and shame on the example you set the entire world when immortalising your thoughts in prose.

 

With openly displayed scorn and disdain.

 

D.

[Malcador]

That mother is a nag.

Just concerned about social justice that's all. "You might not think it now, but making sure the sex you are involved in always involves complete consent will be the best gift you can give your future self" is laughable though, the best gift, heh.

[BruceVC]

 

That mother is a nag.

Just concerned about social justice that's all. "You might not think it now, but making sure the sex you are involved in always involves complete consent will be the best gift you can give your future self" is laughable though, the best gift, heh.

 

 

Explain why you think that consensual sex is something that we should be laughing at?

[Malcador]

Making sure your sex is consensual as the best gift one can give one's self is the actually funny part.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

Making sure your sex is consensual as the best gift one can give one's self is the actually funny part.

 

I still don't get the funny part, what she is saying makes perfect sense to me. She is saying that if you never force yourself on someone for sex then the  reward from that will be a gift. She is speaking metaphorically but it is still correct

Edited September 11, 2013 by BruceVC

[Orogun01]

My colleague has been reading this and asked the question:

 

IF the woman can be so drunk that the law deems she is not responsible for her actions in giving 'consent'

 

THEN does it not follow that a man in an equal state of drunkenness cannot be held responsible for his actions in complying with that 'consent'?

Because "it provokes the desire, but takes away the performance" so its commonly held that a man too drunk cannot physically commit rape.

 

[Malcador]

I still don't get the funny part, what she is saying makes perfect sense to me. She is saying that if you never force yourself on someone for sex then the  reward from that will be a gift. She is speaking metaphorically but it is still correct

Thought I was pretty clear. I guess it was just the wording was funny, though with these preachy open letters I read now and then, one can never be too sure.

[alanschu]

Brevity is not your enemy, your points backed up by linked facts presented in a sharp and concise fashion would be far more effective than this rambling diatribe. English is a vast and fluid language, and surely the words could be found to sum up your feelings in far fewer sentences and paragraphs. All that your letter made me think of is how little respect you are paying to a cherished method of communication.

 

Murdering the English language is not a crime I wish to indulge in, and so I have decided to divorce you as a parent. I do not wish to be infected by the uncaring and brutal attitude with which you treat the language of the Venerable Bede, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton and Dickens, or the casual disdain you find for economy of prose, concise terminology or interesting and gripping use of phrases and terms.

 

Shame on you Madam, and shame on the example you set the entire world when immortalising your thoughts in prose.

 

With openly displayed scorn and disdain.

 

 

Unfortunately, your response ends up reading as one of the people that decide to attack someone's spelling in response to their point.  I find it interesting that (supposedly) if your Mom had written this to you, your response is that she doesn't write very well and that that is enough for you to no longer want her to be a part of your life.

 

 

(I understand that you were likely posting tongue in cheek. I just feel it had the opposite effect that you had intended)

Edited September 11, 2013 by alanschu

[Nonek]

I disassociated myself from my mothers embraces for this very reason, that and the tendency to drop her haitches. My father fully supported me in this choice, as she had on ocassion buttered his crumpets with flagrant abandon, and helped me compose the legal paperwork and hire a respected solicitor. I recommend this action to any six year old.

[Malcador]

Reading that in Rutger Hauer's voice makes it all the more enjoyable.

[alanschu]

 

 

I disassociated myself from my mothers embraces for this very reason

 

Surprising.

 

How do you endure a place like this?