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[BruceVC]

 

 

GTA is a game about criminals, isn't it? Hoodlums, gangsters, thieves, pimps?

 

In my experience these groups don't have HR officers or equal opportunities policies. Jesus, when will the PC gaming Taleban STFU?

 

Edit: PC as in PC. Not PC. You know what I mean.

 

Monte I'm not sure why you seem to be getting so upset? The reviewer still gave the game 9/10 and its the Editors Choice for September. She is not saying "don't play the game". All she is saying  GTA V presents women in one dimensional light and she is probably right

 

I do think the word misogyny is a bit harsh, I would say the game is sexist on certain levels. But not enough where I won't play it.

 

Can we call she an it? I feel that it is somewhere between a man and a woman, which is probably why it felt the need to give its biased opinion (all opinions are biased, btw) instead of just reporting. I get that we need archaeologists to recover the lost manual on how to be a good journalist, but gaming journalism feels more like blogs that comment on games.

 

Also, feminist are approaching the issue of women in gaming entirely wrong. If their stance was that they want more games geared towards a female audience instead of wanting to turn boy's games into women's, they'd probably face less animosity. 

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree with what you are saying. Only the last 2 and half paragraphs discuss the perceived misogyny, the rest of the review is glowing. It seems like you guys are very defensive and want to raise an issue where one doesn't exist around this review. This is her opinion, we can take good and bad things from it.  And to be honest why can't we have a female protagonist in GTA V? She could be a hardcore gangster in the GTA V world?

[licketysplit]

I didn't see the gamespot review as unfair, really. I do think the women in the game are one dimensional and cliche. I know it's supposed to be a parody but that doesn't mean you can't include interesting female characters. Inconsistent characterization Is an observation made by other critics of the game as well.

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

And to be honest why can't we have a female protagonist in GTA V?

 

You could Bruce. But...

 

I'm not part of the GTA V market, I find the games crass and childish and glamorise crime. They don't feature enough fortysomething middle-class male wargamers like me, either. Dammit, The Twilight Saga doesn't fit that demographic either. Nor does loads of other stuff.

 

Back to GTA V, I game I don't-really-care-for. Guess what? I don't buy the freaking thing and I don't bitch about it. I play something else.

 

It's like women's football. It's like a sacred cow for feminism but in reality is meh with a capital 'M'. People vote with their feet and I will now declare GTA V a game for either;

 

(a) Males

 

or

 

(b) Females who accept that the subject matter is macho bull****

 

The end.

[Orogun01]

 

 

 

GTA is a game about criminals, isn't it? Hoodlums, gangsters, thieves, pimps?

 

In my experience these groups don't have HR officers or equal opportunities policies. Jesus, when will the PC gaming Taleban STFU?

 

Edit: PC as in PC. Not PC. You know what I mean.

 

Monte I'm not sure why you seem to be getting so upset? The reviewer still gave the game 9/10 and its the Editors Choice for September. She is not saying "don't play the game". All she is saying  GTA V presents women in one dimensional light and she is probably right

 

I do think the word misogyny is a bit harsh, I would say the game is sexist on certain levels. But not enough where I won't play it.

 

Can we call she an it? I feel that it is somewhere between a man and a woman, which is probably why it felt the need to give its biased opinion (all opinions are biased, btw) instead of just reporting. I get that we need archaeologists to recover the lost manual on how to be a good journalist, but gaming journalism feels more like blogs that comment on games.

 

Also, feminist are approaching the issue of women in gaming entirely wrong. If their stance was that they want more games geared towards a female audience instead of wanting to turn boy's games into women's, they'd probably face less animosity. 

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree with what you are saying. Only the last 2 and half paragraphs discuss the perceived misogyny, the rest of the review is glowing. It seems like you guys are very defensive and want to raise an issue where one doesn't exist around this review. This is her opinion, we can take good and bad things from it.  And to be honest why can't we have a female protagonist in GTA V? She could be a hardcore gangster in the GTA V world?

 

That its just the problem, it is its opinion and shouldn't bear any relevance on whether the game is good because it is not a game targeted towards women. It is a relevant as complaining that the Expendables should be more woman friendly.

If people are defensive is because they perceive a female presence in gaming to be a sign of change in the genres they enjoy, which is proving to be true as there are less games for women and more games for men that try to be woman friendly. The funny thing its that most of the talk seems to be supportive of this instead of creating games that are exclusively for women, its like they are asking for scraps from the table instead of their own seat at it. I cannot bring myself to respect that.

[Monte Carlo]

Funnily enough, I was about to mention The Expendables. Dammit, none of the team have any sort of physical disability and in the second film the lack of Eastern European positive role-models was disappointing.

[Morgoth]

Do you like the idea of streaming PS3 games to your PC?

 

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/09/20/sonys-shuhei-yoshida-talks-about-expanding-playstation-cloud-services-to-pc-and-other-devices/

 

Yoshida thinks so, too!

[Morgoth]

Oh and me too, btw.

[HoonDing]

Hey, at least GTA V doesn't have boobie cards.

[Morgoth]

 

What a disaster.

[licketysplit]

I know the Thief series predates Dishonored...but that looks a hell of a lot like Dishonored.

[Amentep]

Only the last 2 and half paragraphs discuss the perceived misogyny, the rest of the review is glowing. It seems like you guys are very defensive and want to raise an issue where one doesn't exist around this review. This is her opinion, we can take good and bad things from it.  And to be honest why can't we have a female protagonist in GTA V? She could be a hardcore gangster in the GTA V world?

Having read the review, it seems to me the biggest problem the reviewer has with the games' "misogyny" isn't that it exists in the game but that she didn't feel enough had been done to either make it real and own the reality of modern gender perception within the context of the game or to push it entirely into satire so that it made a statement about modern gender perception. Instead it existed in a nebulous realm of not managing to be a satire on modern gender perceptions but being too out there to be a reflection (and thus commentary) or real life gender perceptions.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Amentep

[Oner]

That's a pretty cool trailer.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

GTA is a game about criminals, isn't it? Hoodlums, gangsters, thieves, pimps?

 

In my experience these groups don't have HR officers or equal opportunities policies. Jesus, when will the PC gaming Taleban STFU?

 

Edit: PC as in PC. Not PC. You know what I mean.

 

Monte I'm not sure why you seem to be getting so upset? The reviewer still gave the game 9/10 and its the Editors Choice for September. She is not saying "don't play the game". All she is saying  GTA V presents women in one dimensional light and she is probably right

 

I do think the word misogyny is a bit harsh, I would say the game is sexist on certain levels. But not enough where I won't play it.

 

Can we call she an it? I feel that it is somewhere between a man and a woman, which is probably why it felt the need to give its biased opinion (all opinions are biased, btw) instead of just reporting. I get that we need archaeologists to recover the lost manual on how to be a good journalist, but gaming journalism feels more like blogs that comment on games.

 

Also, feminist are approaching the issue of women in gaming entirely wrong. If their stance was that they want more games geared towards a female audience instead of wanting to turn boy's games into women's, they'd probably face less animosity. 

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree with what you are saying. Only the last 2 and half paragraphs discuss the perceived misogyny, the rest of the review is glowing. It seems like you guys are very defensive and want to raise an issue where one doesn't exist around this review. This is her opinion, we can take good and bad things from it.  And to be honest why can't we have a female protagonist in GTA V? She could be a hardcore gangster in the GTA V world?

 

That its just the problem, it is its opinion and shouldn't bear any relevance on whether the game is good because it is not a game targeted towards women. It is a relevant as complaining that the Expendables should be more woman friendly.

If people are defensive is because they perceive a female presence in gaming to be a sign of change in the genres they enjoy, which is proving to be true as there are less games for women and more games for men that try to be woman friendly. The funny thing its that most of the talk seems to be supportive of this instead of creating games that are exclusively for women, its like they are asking for scraps from the table instead of their own seat at it. I cannot bring myself to respect that.

 

 

But this change in genre that worries you only has to be a problem if you allow it. Also we don't really want separate games for women and men, we want games that are inclusive of both sexes. Also  here is the thing you seem to be missing. I can't see games like GTA V going away in the future despite if people think it is sexist. The financial sales success tells us and publishers that this type of game has its fans and can generate huge revenue. So no need to worry, you'll still be able to ride over prostitutes for a good few more years

Edited September 23, 2013 by BruceVC

[Keyrock]

As long as pony hair brushing simulators remain inclusive of both sexes, I'll be good to go.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Keyrock

[Nepenthe]

 

 

 

 

GTA is a game about criminals, isn't it? Hoodlums, gangsters, thieves, pimps?

 

In my experience these groups don't have HR officers or equal opportunities policies. Jesus, when will the PC gaming Taleban STFU?

 

Edit: PC as in PC. Not PC. You know what I mean.

Monte I'm not sure why you seem to be getting so upset? The reviewer still gave the game 9/10 and its the Editors Choice for September. She is not saying "don't play the game". All she is saying GTA V presents women in one dimensional light and she is probably right

 

I do think the word misogyny is a bit harsh, I would say the game is sexist on certain levels. But not enough where I won't play it.

Can we call she an it? I feel that it is somewhere between a man and a woman, which is probably why it felt the need to give its biased opinion (all opinions are biased, btw) instead of just reporting. I get that we need archaeologists to recover the lost manual on how to be a good journalist, but gaming journalism feels more like blogs that comment on games.

 

Also, feminist are approaching the issue of women in gaming entirely wrong. If their stance was that they want more games geared towards a female audience instead of wanting to turn boy's games into women's, they'd probably face less animosity.

The core idea of feminism has always been to turn boys' games into girls', they've just gotten a hell of a lot more concrete about it.

[Bester]

SteamOS (linux)

 

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

Edited September 23, 2013 by Bester

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

Also we don't really want separate games for women and men...

 

I do.

 

Who is this 'we' of which you speak?

 

If everything is 'inclusive' where does that leave 'us?' (a sort of authoritarian libtard nirvana, I was being rhetorical).

 

Please have another look at what I'm saying... I really don't like GTA as a franchise. I think it's grubby. I think it's tacky. So what? I just don't play it.

 

So if some women find that the portrayal of their gender is offensive then they shouldn't play it either. It really is that simple. One person's inclusivity is another person's nightmare.

[alanschu]

 

 

The core idea of feminism has always been to turn boys' games into girls', they've just gotten a hell of a lot more concrete about it.

 

 

It's more about disparities.  Video games are going through the process of frankly, becoming more appealing (at its core this is actually a good thing) to a wider audience.  So the types of people that would have cared in the past (but didn't because they didn't consume the media) are now speaking up.  There's also a general cultural shift that is more accepting towards homosexuals and so forth, so they are starting to speak up when they never really had the ability to do so at all.

 

 

I don't see the commentary of poor depiction of women in GTA V being a threat to the existence of games like GTA V.  It's effectively just a voice, and Rockstar is free to do what they want in light of said cric.  But then, I also don't feel that things like Anita's videos will mean the complete eradication of "damsel in distress" trope either.  Nor do I think it should, even though I think her bringing up the topic leads to an interesting enough discussion (even if I feel compelled to disagree with her on some points).

 

 

Maybe I'm less connected to other media, but I don't see the level of discussion come up nearly as much with movies anymore.  My hypothesis is that this is in large part due to the diversity in movies (both in terms of the content of said movies, as well the diversity of those that create the movies) so you just get different perspectives.

 

I think this is why a movie like The Expendables doesn't really get scrutinized.  A movie like The Expendables is also pretty niche in the scheme of movies.  Duke Nukem is pretty raunchy and inappropriate, but it doesn't have the influence, popularity, or exposure that a GTA V does, so it goes by the wayside.

 

 

Further, it's still okay to be entertained and enjoyed by things that don't have pleasant depictions of people or whatever.  (I note that I don't play GTA V mostly because I didn't care for GTA3 and still haven't played any other GTA since).

[Monte Carlo]

^ I agree with Alan but this is also a straightforward (a) genre issue and (b) feminist whining.

 

Imagine I wrote a review of a romantic comedy and got butt-hurt that there were no car chases, gun-fights or scenes where Sean Connery takes out a roomful of bikers armed only with his thumb*

 

Quite rightly I'd be told to stop being a tool.

 

Ergo, the young lady complaining that a game about gangstas not channelling Naomi Woolf needs to also stop being a tool.

 

* The Presidio.

[alanschu]

 

 

So if some women find that the portrayal of their gender is offensive then they shouldn't play it either. It really is that simple. One person's inclusivity is another person's nightmare.

 

As unlikely as it may seem to someone like you and me, would this mean that, if there was a newer female gamer that doesn't like that type of portrayal of their gender and is (somehow...) not really familiar with the GTA franchise, that they would actually have some value added by the Gamespot review pointing it out?

[Tale]

Imagine I wrote a review of a romantic comedy and got butt-hurt that there were no car chases, gun-fights or scenes where Sean Connery takes out a roomful of bikers armed only with his thumb*

How about if I read half the vocal internet opinions on the average Transformer movie. Or other Michael Bay explosion vehicle.

 

Or a particularly non-zero number of opinions of Bioware games. I can imagine several people around here, and elsewhere, reviewing Dragon Age: Inquisition with scathing commentary about romances and CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE. And those same people giving complaint that no professional reviews hold similar criticism.

 

But surely, you should expect that. So you can't comment. Or something.

[Monte Carlo]

^ Again, Alan, I agree broadly with the thrust of your argument. But this is the fifth turn of the GTA wheel. It's one of the most successful and famous games. I think by now anyone thinking of purchasing it might know the lie of the land.

 

Personally, a fluffy politically correct version of GTA would be awesome. You could have an empowered, castration-fixated prostitute, a cross-dressing kleptomaniac who thinks he's Sarah Jessica Parker (NEW MISSION: STEAL JIMMY CHOOS) and a subversive, nihilistic probation officer who keeps releasing serial killers back into the community for the lulz.

[Monte Carlo]

 

Imagine I wrote a review of a romantic comedy and got butt-hurt that there were no car chases, gun-fights or scenes where Sean Connery takes out a roomful of bikers armed only with his thumb*

How about if I read half the vocal internet opinions on the average Transformer movie. Or other Michael Bay explosion vehicle.

 

Or a particularly non-zero number of opinions of Bioware games. I can imagine several people around here, and elsewhere, reviewing Dragon Age: Inquisition with scathing commentary about romances and CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE. And those same people giving complaint that no professional reviews hold similar criticism.

 

But surely, you should expect that. So you can't comment. Or something.

 

 

Sorry, but I haven't the faintest idea what you're saying with this post. Not being rude, genuinely, but I'm having a Point Not Found moment.

[alanschu]

But this is the fifth turn of the GTA wheel. It's one of the most successful and famous games. I think by now anyone thinking of purchasing it might know the lie of the land.

 

Gaming is growing, though.

 

I met some people at PAX that are huge BioWare fans, and the first game of ours that they played was one of: DAO, ME2, DA2, and even ME3.  Some people were introduced into gaming by playing Bastion and were super geeked up to be at PAX to learn about other games (and that Transistor was there).

 

 

I'm not sure if the assumption is necessarily fair, despite GTA being stupendously successful.

 

 

 

 

Personally, a fluffy politically correct version of GTA would be awesome. You could have an empowered, castration-fixated prostitute, a cross-dressing kleptomaniac who thinks he's Sarah Jessica Parker (NEW MISSION: STEAL JIMMY CHOOS) and a subversive, nihilistic probation officer who keeps releasing serial killers back into the community for the lulz.

 

Well, I think a politically correct version of GTA would be pretty boring.  Although you didn't really describe a PC game, however (which would probably be interesting simply for the novelty).

 

 

 

Sorry, but I haven't the faintest idea what you're saying with this post. Not being rude, genuinely, but I'm having a Point Not Found moment.

 

I think he's commenting on people that make scathing comments about BioWare games for having things that they don't like in it (i.e. romances, cinematic experiences), despite the fact that BioWare has been doing it for some time in their games and that, to use your words, people should simply "know the lie of the land."

Edited September 23, 2013 by alanschu

[licketysplit]

^ I agree with Alan but this is also a straightforward (a) genre issue and (b) feminist whining.

 

Imagine I wrote a review of a romantic comedy and got butt-hurt that there were no car chases, gun-fights or scenes where Sean Connery takes out a roomful of bikers armed only with his thumb*

 

Quite rightly I'd be told to stop being a tool.

 

Ergo, the young lady complaining that a game about gangstas not channelling Naomi Woolf needs to also stop being a tool.

 

* The Presidio.

 

But that's not what the gamespot reviewer did. She made a value judgement on the game's writing. Calling it misogyny may be going a bit too far but it's a fair assessment shared by other reviewers - the characters are not well written, especially the female ones.