Potraits

[Leferd]

If I recall, I believe the BG1 portraits reference material were based on actual real people -like Bio devs - and they wanted to get away from that.

[Osvir]

or you coulda' just said, do portraits like ps:t. saves on digital trees or something.

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

@Gromnir: Oh? Since I got this reply I was kind of curious and googled around but could never really find anything "substantial" to explain this.

 

Please elaborate. Is it possible to mod & change the different states of the Portraits in PS:T?

 

Additionally @everyone:

I also wish to bring up "Emotional Expressions" into the fray. Will the Character Portraits of PE have "Emotional Expressions"? And if not, could it be possible to insert that in the same manner as what I posted previously?

 

Psuedo-code!

IF [Choice] = Intimidate

DO [Portrait#1JAH]

 

This could also be "modded" by opening the original JAH (Jaheira) portrait, modifiy it in photoshop and replace it as seen below:

 

IF [Choice] = Intimidate

DO [Portrait#1JAHANGRYFACE]

 

^This, I admittedly believe, would be a little bit more "complex" than simply tying up the Health bar with the Portraits. In theory this Dialogue+Portrait Expression might be simple, but in practice I believe it would require Obsidian to include "Portrait Folders" and tie them correctly in Dialogue (or else there would be a lot of confusion):

 

1. Main Folder [Jaheira]

- ProfilePicture.jpg

2. Sub-Folder One [Health]

-- 1.00% Health

-- 0.75% Health

-- 0.50% Health

-- 0.25% Health

3. Sub-Folder Two [Expressions]

-- Angry.jpg

-- Happy.jpg

-- Surprised.jpg

-- Confused.jpg

-- Charming.jpg

-- Laughing.jpg

-- etc. etc.

 

In some ways it'd be a [Portrait Set] akin to how the [sound Sets] were handled.

 

If you make a Sound Set for BG or IWD, you don't need to make all the 20-30 Sound Set files, you can make only 1 .wav if you want to and go with that. So, the suggestion is in essence, "It would be cool if there are 20-30 portrait 'placeholders' for various Health & Expressions purposes, but Obsidian only needs to make 1 Portrait in the vanilla experience".

 

The simplest way for Players or Modders to play around with it would be to be able to directly influence in a Toolset/Game Editor, and tie specific "Portraits" and or "Pictures" to Dialogue choices and replies.

[Gromnir]

am not sure how you googled and missed. ps:t  portraits of nameless one and party npcs were dynamic. black isle folks already did what you is asking for back in 1999, and many o' those folks is working on pe.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Messier-31]

1. Main Folder [Jaheira]

- ProfilePicture.jpg

2. Sub-Folder One [Health]

-- 1.00% Health

-- 0.75% Health

-- 0.50% Health

-- 0.25% Health

3. Sub-Folder Two [Expressions]

-- Angry.jpg

-- Happy.jpg

-- Surprised.jpg

-- Confused.jpg

-- Charming.jpg

-- Laughing.jpg

-- etc. etc.

 

Wow... think about custom portraits; that would be a chore

[Osvir]

 

1. Main Folder [Jaheira]

- ProfilePicture.jpg

2. Sub-Folder One [Health]

-- 1.00% Health

-- 0.75% Health

-- 0.50% Health

-- 0.25% Health

3. Sub-Folder Two [Expressions]

-- Angry.jpg

-- Happy.jpg

-- Surprised.jpg

-- Confused.jpg

-- Charming.jpg

-- Laughing.jpg

-- etc. etc.

 

Wow... think about custom portraits; that would be a chore

A chore that I would personally very much adore, without a single drop of bore, and play with Portraits in Photoshop a little bit more ;D

[Ieo]

I don't care about that Justin guy some people still want to hire (I think the artists Obsidian chose are just fine--it's a matter of style), and I'll end up using my own portrait anyway. I think IWD-style body portraits with versions cropped down to BG-style headshots would be great, if people prefer one type over the other.

 

HOWEVER! I just realized something!

 

Jaheira's portrait in BG2, besides being all weirdly proportioned and creepy compared to the BG1 version (*cough* sorry), kept reminding me of something that I couldn't put my finger on until just now... Kira the Gelfling from Dark Crystal. If Kira had, like, grown up all bitter and battle-hardened and stuff.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

Special totally off-topic request to Obsidian team: Please include a orrery like Aughra's in the game. Heh!

[Osvir]

This just hit me, awkwardly enough:

In DA:O, Skyrim etc. etc. people modify the character models to get more "Character Modifications" and "Edits" and similar.

In the IE games you don't worry too much about the paperdoll per say, but the artistic character portraits. Isn't "Portrait" customization (in essence) the same thing but a different format?

[Messier-31]

This just hit me, awkwardly enough:

 

In DA:O, Skyrim etc. etc. people modify the character models to get more "Character Modifications" and "Edits" and similar.

 

In the IE games you don't worry too much about the paperdoll per say, but the artistic character portraits. Isn't "Portrait" customization (in essence) the same thing but a different format?

 

Well maybe yes, but making own custom portraits is happening off the grid; it's not a game feature, but you use separate software to make your own genuine pictures for a character. Sure, this takes more time and work, also more skill, but the fun of it is worth it I guess. Too bad I didn't pick more points in ART (PHOTOSHOP HERO) last time I leveled up.

 

 

 

1. Main Folder [Jaheira]

- ProfilePicture.jpg

2. Sub-Folder One [Health]

-- 1.00% Health

-- 0.75% Health

-- 0.50% Health

-- 0.25% Health

3. Sub-Folder Two [Expressions]

-- Angry.jpg

-- Happy.jpg

-- Surprised.jpg

-- Confused.jpg

-- Charming.jpg

-- Laughing.jpg

-- etc. etc.

 

Wow... think about custom portraits; that would be a chore

 

A chore that I would personally very much adore, without a single drop of bore, and play with Portraits in Photoshop a little bit more ;D

 

Now this just hit me... What about expressions in different health status? You didn't think about that, did ya?

 

-- Angry.jpg

----- 1.00% Health

----- 0.75% Health

----- 0.50% Health

----- 0.25% Health

-- Happy.jpg

----- 1.00% Health

----- 0.75% Health

----- 0.50% Health

----- 0.25% Health

 

-- etc. etc.

 

Okay, this is getting too much complicated.

[Lephys]

I'm not sure if I agree with the notion that abstract pieces or caricatures are worse as RPG portraits, but in any case the BG2 portraits were trying to be realistic rather than expressing something through abstraction, and a few of them didn't do this very well.

Well said. It's all about the context. While all-abstract portraits would be a bit of a disconnect in a game (for example) that was using highly photo-realistic graphics, the problem mainly stems from the fact that the BG2 portraits in question were trying to be quite photo-realistic depictions of the characters' faces.

 

I didn't say that very well in my post, as I was just seeming to say that photo-realistic is always better, because portraits. But, I meant portraits in the context of the game, and in what the portraits are trying to do in that game.

 

@Trashman: The BG1 portraits aren't objectively "better," period... they're objectively better at achieving their goal. The general rating/comparison of the portraits from either game, overall, probably stems from the fact that, regardless of all other factors, there's a clear disconnect between the aesthetics of Jaheira and Imoen's portraits, and the other portraits shown, while the BG1 ones tend to be rather uniform in style.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I've always liked the oil painting style of Baldurs Gate, especially BG1, over the IWD portraits. The BG2 portraits look washed out.

 

Irenicus is another good picture.

 

[TrashMan]

 

I'd say BG1 is better because the proportions are not out of whack like they are in BG2, and it doesn't look deliberate but rather like they were just drawn badly.  Style is subjective, but if you paid me to draw a portrait of yourself and I gave you a badly drawn stick man picture you wouldn't accept that it's badness is subjective you'd ask for your money back. 

 

Anyway, we all know my opinion is the important one here, because I'm right and everything should be done according to my whims!

 

 

Where are proportions aout of whack?

 

BG1 and BG2 are almost identical in style, the difference being mostly darkness...and BG2 trying to make elves more exotic looking. BG1 portraits seems to have a more "plain" design. BG2 does have a bit lighter, washed-out feel to it. But I can't say it's bad or good per say.

Stylistic choice.

[Sensuki]

Actually no they're completely different. The BG1 portraits are done based on people at BioWare at the time (or other people). BG2 ones are a lot more stylized.

[Agremont]

 

Let's compare:

 

Baldur's Gate 1 Portraits

 

 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 Portraits

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but no offense to the artist who did them but the second lot just do not match up with the first lot.  First off, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO JAHEIRA'S FACE???!!!  It's not that she looks different from the first game, it's that she looks like she had her face driven into by a truck and then had her facial reconstruction seriously messed up by a stoned back street surgeon.  I played BG2 first by the way, and even without knowing what her first incarnation was like, I felt that there was something really wrong with her face, her eyes don't line up for a start.  In fact, all the facial expressions seem off on them all, the eyes misplaced, necks extremely wrong etc.  They also all look like they are having mug shots taken of themselves, whereas the first ones seem more natural, the first ones seem more interesting whereas the latter are just staring lifelessly at you, zombies have more character.  And as Mr. Magniloquent said, what's with the dreadlocks dude?

 

The first ones have a greater degree of detail I find, and they just seem better quality, like they were done by a more skilled artist, more professional.  The world they paint also seems better and more cohesive. 

 

So, in short, what we've learnt here today folks is that I think the BG2 portraits suck compared to BG1 portraits.  Does this help the thread?  Probably not, but it's been a while since I could get on these forums on an actual computer instead of my phone and stick pics up. 

Whoever did the BG2 portraits had some strange fascination with putting scars around people's eyes.

 

 

It's actually the same artist. Mike Sass.

[greenmonster]

I had read that the BG1 portraits were based on portraits of real people that worked on the project or were friends & spouses. It think that is why I like them better ... they were more realistic and less cartoony.

[Lephys]

It's actually the same artist. Mike Sass.

That makes the comparison all the better.

[NoTorious]

The Quality of BG1, BG2 and Icewind dale is amazing. As far i see in the updates in PE, charater portraits will be great too.

What i hope most for is an unique portrait for every singel NPC u meet in the game like the guys on the BG Big World Project did years ago, cause it create a lot immersion.

[Giantevilhead]

I am not asking for this or requesting it but it would be freaking awesome:

 

 

I would love it if, not this detailed as above, if Obsidian could at least allow for 3-4 "states" of portraits depending on how much Health you have.

 

In essence: If they write the code for "4 portrait states", modding it would be so much easier. But in the vanilla experience it would suffice still if it is just 1 Picture in all 4 states, less resources to be spent on the artistic work by Obsidian (unless they themselves think it's an interesting idea and want to do some artistic wolfenstein-esque health-damage work).

 

1. 100% Health

 

 

2. Same thing, 80% Health

3. Same thing, 50% Health

4. Same thing, 20% Health

 

What it allows for is me, as the Player, to customize 2, 3, 4~

 

1. ^Picture above (Full Health)

2. I go into Photoshop and add some amateur detail signifying that the character has taken damage.

3. See 2.

4. See 2.

 

But as I first said, it's not anything I'm requesting, but simply throwing it out there because I personally think it would be awesome, effective and semi-"innovative". Obsidian wouldn't need to make the "damaged states" portraits themselves, but simply having the "4 states" in the code would open so many doors for Portrait enthusiasts and "modders" and "amateur" artists to fill in the gaps.

 

EDIT: Switched the IWD portrait to something smaller.

 

EDIT EDIT:

In practice~

 

Concept, what Obsidian only needs to do (but with proper coding ofc):

1. IF 1.00% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAH]

2. IF 0.75% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAH]

3. IF 0.50% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAH]

4. IF 0.25% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAH]

 

Because with this, I could easily just open [Portrait#1JAH] in Photoshop or whatever, modify it a little bit and rename it to [Portrait#1JAHMOD2] (or whatever I wish to name it) and then add it into the states as such:

 

Concept, what I could then do with it:

1. IF 1.00% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAH]

2. IF 0.75% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAHMOD2]

3. IF 0.50% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAHMOD3]

4. IF 0.25% Health = Show [Portrait#1JAHMOD4]

 

I'm not too savvy with programming, but it looks logically like something that could be fairly simple to implement.

 

Every Might and Magic game after 3 had this and it wasn't just for health. The portrait changed based on various conditions like insanity, paralysis, weakness, poisoned, etc.

 

The new Might and Magic game by Ubisoft will also have this feature.

 

[Osvir]

 

<snip>

 

Every Might and Magic game after 3 had this and it wasn't just for health. The portrait changed based on various conditions like insanity, paralysis, weakness, poisoned, etc.

 

The new Might and Magic game by Ubisoft will also have this feature.

 

 

Brilliant! :D

 

The point I was/is making is that Obsidian wouldn't need to put any Art resources on it because simplicity and cost-efficiency (but programmers would ofc have to spend some resources on it). It'd suffice if they only made the "Normal" state and left everything else alone BUT keeping "Hurt", "Weak", "Asleep" in a Folder-setup or in-code somehow so that Amateur Artists/Modders could fill in the blanks.

 

A) Obsidian doesn't have to spend too much resources on it*, as I believe it would be fairly simple to code as well:

IF [Poisoned] = Show [Portrait#1JAHNormal]

 

Modders/Artists could open [Portrait#1JAHNormal], modify it a little bit, rename it into [Portrait#1JAHPoison] and insert it:

 

IF [Poisoned] = Show [Portrait#1JAHPoison]

 

B) IF Obsidian leaves this out and allows Artists to take on a sort of "sub-role" to fill in the blanks, it'll allow the Community and Gamers from all over to grow closer to the game. Fallout 3, Oblivion, Morrowind, New Vegas, Skyrim and all of the mod heavy games becomes better psychologically when Fans have touched the games. Mods make the games not just "better" mechanically, but spiritually and emotionally it leaves a little bit of a joyful tear in my heart that "The People" have taken a part in the creation of the full product and enhanced it Post-Release.

 

* Unless it's something that Obsidian think they can and want to spend resources on of course. I wouldn't know, I'm just trying to get this idea through and at the same time present the idea of "you don't need to spend too much resources/money on this". I'm just thinking "for simplicity's sake", fwiw.

[JFSOCC]

as beautiful as I think it is to have multiple state portraits, I value the ability to load up my own portraits over this.

[Osvir]

as beautiful as I think it is to have multiple state portraits, I value the ability to load up my own portraits over this.

Which wouldn't or shouldn't be impossible in the least, quite the opposite.

 

Import one picture and it should "overwrite" or "copy" itself to all the "sub-folders" (so to speak) and be the prioritized image in all states. So if you import, I dunno, Pierce Brosnan (really? That's the first one on top of my head?), you would ofc get Pierce Brosnan. Then you could modify it for "Poisoned", "Asleep", "Weak" etc. etc.

 

The idea is to keep the old & easy of the IE games, but with potential to enhance the expressions depending on "Status Effect".

[ViolentManatee]

I really liked portrait style from nwn1 and I hope they'll stick to portraits rather than using nwn2 "face" style design.

[Lephys]

The "snapshot of your character's 3D model face" portraits are definitely a bit lackluster. The 3D model provides little benefit to the 2D iconic quality of the portrait, and they just seem so lifeless and dull. About the only pro is that your portrait looks exactly like your in-game character model, down to all the specific customizations you made. A pro that gets drowned in all the cons, methinks.

[Grotesque]

When I saw the portraits in Baldur's Gate I thought to myself "Thant's some quality **** right there!"

 

No game since then managed to equal that exquisite style and presentation.

I those portraits were based on actual real faces, that's insanely for the better.

[kgambit]

Any word from the devs on whether custom portraits can be used and if so, what are the dimensions?

[John Forseti]

I think both BG1 and 2's portrait sets are excellent but I actually prefer the more stylised BG2 versions, i seem to be in a minority.

 

One thing I did not like about them though is how they all seemed to already be in use on various other characters. It was a bit of a shock to recruit Edwin I think it was and suddenly see a clone in the party. So my main hope is they have a lot of variety and maybe a few alts so I dont end up trawling the net for hours looking for something that fits the character, setting and style.