Non-romance dynamics in games

[Nepenthe]

 

 

 

(Or it's because I'm a straight-laced **** with a thing for bad girls)

 

 

So that why you're still single? 

 

 

What do you mean "still"? I mean, I get days when I'd like to settle down, but those are few and far between.

[Orogun01]

So what emotional bondings do you like in-game?

 

I was trying to think of other alternatives. Fallout New Vegas uses the revenge model with Rose. I liked that one. It established that she cared about people she travelled with, and then put you in a position to back her up.

I like the one where I play the game and it doesn't try to shove an emotional reaction down my throat but rather lets one emerge from the story and the mechanics working together.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

 

(Or it's because I'm a straight-laced **** with a thing for bad girls)

 

 

So that why you're still single? 

 

 

What do you mean "still"? I mean, I get days when I'd like to settle down, but those are few and far between.

 

 

You were getting all soppy over some chick a while ago, I thought you were planning to stop baiting chicks with the big screen tv and PS3's blu ray playback and grow up.

 

 

:D

[Walsingham]

 

So what emotional bondings do you like in-game?

 

I was trying to think of other alternatives. Fallout New Vegas uses the revenge model with Rose. I liked that one. It established that she cared about people she travelled with, and then put you in a position to back her up.

I like the one where I play the game and it doesn't try to shove an emotional reaction down my throat but rather lets one emerge from the story and the mechanics working together.

 

 

I've been trying to work out how that might function. Not sure.

 

I'm mean obviously I've seen it happen, but what do you think leads to that emergent reaction?

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

I'm guessing she did porn or something then...

 

Yep, porn actress. Her filmography is as long as my forearm.

 

Sad, really.

 

 

Okay so she was in the Porn industry, that's not a bad thing in my opinion. In fact now I would now say  her tattoo's make more sense. I like to watch the odd adult entertainment. Do you know her stage name ?

 

 

How can it not be bad for a teenager to sell him/herself for money? That's a choice one is likely to regret for the rest of their life, made at a point where one is most likely not mature enough to realize the full cost such decision entails.

[Orogun01]

 

 

So what emotional bondings do you like in-game?

 

I was trying to think of other alternatives. Fallout New Vegas uses the revenge model with Rose. I liked that one. It established that she cared about people she travelled with, and then put you in a position to back her up.

I like the one where I play the game and it doesn't try to shove an emotional reaction down my throat but rather lets one emerge from the story and the mechanics working together.

 

 

I've been trying to work out how that might function. Not sure.

 

I'm mean obviously I've seen it happen, but what do you think leads to that emergent reaction?

 

Google Dwarf Fortress Boatmurdered PDF to get a look at what the opposite would be.

Its a sizable telling of a game of succession in Dwarf Fortress where all events rise from the game mechanics.

 

Or you could just recall the old IE games where your choice of companions plus your actions largely influenced how the story proceeded. 

[Walsingham]

Actually, a friend and I sat down and read the whole of boatmurdered in one sitting, with beer. It was a great laugh.

 

However, perhaps not a great illustration. I mean really that's just imagining dynamics not inherently in the game, isn't it?

[Orogun01]

Actually, a friend and I sat down and read the whole of boatmurdered in one sitting, with beer. It was a great laugh.

 

However, perhaps not a great illustration. I mean really that's just imagining dynamics not inherently in the game, isn't it?

To an extent it is on the other hand it is a story just not one that has been written by the developers or coded into the game. The concept of emergence is that it is built upon something, in this case the game. Ludonarrative dissonance often is the result of developers ignoring how players are going to use the mechanics or from the fact that developers built a story that runs contrary to the mechanics of the game.

For example: Prototype, a game where you play as a murderer and yet you are still cast as the good guy.

 

In the end just like when we see a film or read a book the fact that we often make assumptions about the characters and the situation doesn't necessarily detracts from the narrative. Nor should the fact that the assumptions are born from the mechanics of a game make it any less so. 

[Walsingham]

Hmmm. Need to think about that. Interesting angle.

[AwesomeOcelot]

How can it not be bad for a teenager to sell him/herself for money? That's a choice one is likely to regret for the rest of their life, made at a point where one is most likely not mature enough to realize the full cost such decision entails.

What are the consequences? What will she regret? What is the full cost?

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

How can it not be bad for a teenager to sell him/herself for money? That's a choice one is likely to regret for the rest of their life, made at a point where one is most likely not mature enough to realize the full cost such decision entails.

What are the consequences? What will she regret? What is the full cost?

 

 

If I actually need to tell you that there's no purpose even going into that discussion with you.

[Orogun01]

 

How can it not be bad for a teenager to sell him/herself for money? That's a choice one is likely to regret for the rest of their life, made at a point where one is most likely not mature enough to realize the full cost such decision entails.

What are the consequences? What will she regret? What is the full cost?

 

Well, since you seem so curious why don't you try it and tell us the result?

[Nepenthe]

 

 

 

 

 

(Or it's because I'm a straight-laced **** with a thing for bad girls)

 

 

So that why you're still single? 

 

 

What do you mean "still"? I mean, I get days when I'd like to settle down, but those are few and far between.

 

 

You were getting all soppy over some chick a while ago, I thought you were planning to stop baiting chicks with the big screen tv and PS3's blu ray playback and grow up.

 

 

:D

 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Spoilsport.

[Nepenthe]

Trolling can't work every time.

[Amentep]

Gentlemen, it's just a TEENSY WEENSY TINY bit hypocritical for us to have a problem with people who've been in porn.

 

Okay I'm not sure how to take this.  Was there a "previous member of the porn industry" requirement before posting here that I didn't know about or do Avelone, Urquhart, Sawyer, et al have a much more varied career than I first thought looking at their public CVs?

 

 

So what emotional bondings do you like in-game?

 

I was trying to think of other alternatives. Fallout New Vegas uses the revenge model with Rose. I liked that one. It established that she cared about people she travelled with, and then put you in a position to back her up.

 

Do you mean emotional bondings intended by the game (ie narrative bonds intended by the story) or player bonds with their PC or other NPCs because of things that draws them to an interest in PC/NPC that may be as much investment by the player as investment by the creators?

Edited July 15, 2013 by Amentep

[Walsingham]

Since it's you, Amentep, I'll be even more straightforward. If I met Rolando Villazon I'd be very polite, and interested, because I've very much enjoyed operas he's been in. The artist and the audience share a connection, if you follow me.

 

~

 

I liked your second point. Yes, I think that investment by the player can be very powerful. In many ways perhaps - as I think you were already suggesting - the player investment should come first.

 

Query: would it be acceptable to have common themes and subplots anchor on different NPCs, depending on which ones we identified with and took along with us? Like an ex lover or nemesis? So two different NPCs X and Y, can bring the baggage evil NPC Z into the story. Possibly in different ways, but still...

 

I accept this would be mindblowingly difficult in terms of the way we build games currently. But I'm talking in the abstract.

[Orogun01]

 

Query: would it be acceptable to have common themes and subplots anchor on different NPCs, depending on which ones we identified with and took along with us? Like an ex lover or nemesis? So two different NPCs X and Y, can bring the baggage evil NPC Z into the story. Possibly in different ways, but still...

 

I accept this would be mindblowingly difficult in terms of the way we build games currently. But I'm talking in the abstract.

I need you to clarify, do you mean that the NPCs have interdynamics that only relate to each other but not the player? Or that their response be based on choices made by the player?

[Zoraptor]

or do Avelone, Urquhart, Sawyer, et al have a much more varied career than I first thought looking at their public CVs?

 

"They were young, and needed a publisher..."

[Calax]

 

or do Avelone, Urquhart, Sawyer, et al have a much more varied career than I first thought looking at their public CVs?

 

"They were young, and needed a publisher..."

 

So they went the Caligula rout for publishing?

[anubite]

The actual truth is that females are very pretty to look at.

 

You can't have a love interest though, because then you're accused of misogyny by the media and um, gamers probably have expectations if you have a love interest escort mission the entire ****in' game. You can't meet those expectations, because let's face it, first person kisses and hugs aren't all that amazing. Third person isn't that spectacular either. How many games do you know of even have intimacy of some level? Those that do tend to feel corny and sappy. Most gamers want an action game and they probably would see a love interest escort for a whole game as a "chick flick"?

 

Hm, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that developers went father/daughter more because they can't do a love interest angle for several reasons. Father/daughter can be tender and sweet, but is more likely to be about developing a connection that isn't physical in nature, which makes more sense than a love interest.

 

Finally, Half Life 2 the game that started all of this cinemactic railroad action game genre had Alex. It's a part of the formula. They aren't gonna deviate; could you see this daughter being replaced by a son? Or another, regular ol' buddy? Nope, I don't see it.

 

Sorry for being cynical, but I don't see this father/daughter angle that's been prevalent in almost every action/story game this season to be a good or mature thing. It's developers playing it very safe. Really, I've watched my brother play The Last of Us, and the daughter is ****in' stupid in terms of gameplay. Awful AI, always gets in your way, blocking passages when zombies are chasing you. That **** doesn't make you like a character no matter how much story you shove in the player's face. Developers are still spending too much focus on story and prettiness than the actual meat and potatoes - engaging encounters, AI, level design, weapon design, et cetera.

[BruceVC]

 

Gentlemen, it's just a TEENSY WEENSY TINY bit hypocritical for us to have a problem with people who've been in porn.

 

Okay I'm not sure how to take this.  Was there a "previous member of the porn industry" requirement before posting here that I didn't know about or do Avelone, Urquhart, Sawyer, et al have a much more varied career than I first thought looking at their public CVs?

 

 

 

 

 

I do think its judgemental to look down on people who work in Porn industry. Are they breaking the law? Also Porn actors provide an important service on different levels. I understand the moral view people have of the porn industry. And I wouldn't like my 22 year sister doing it as a career choice but I would absolutely support her if she understood the risks and wanted to do this. ( Plus I'm sure I would get to meet her friends  )

 

Just so I'm clear what is the issue people have with Porn actors?

[ShadySands]

I dunno, did anyone even say anything particularly negative about it?

[BruceVC]

I dunno, did anyone even say anything particularly negative about it?

 

Yes, there is a fairly negative view on people who are in the Porn industry if reread the discussion

[ShadySands]

I saw that one person objected to a teen girl selling herself and another, quite understandably, doesn't want his daughter going down that path but to me that doesn't seem that strange. I may be missing something though because I admit I haven't been following this thread very closely as it's not something I'm very interested in since I haven't played any of the games mentioned. I've only chimed in on these off topic tangents